Confirmed with Link: Matthews new deal Pt 3

[Throw More Waffles]

I don't think it's a bad contract all. The cap is going to be in an entire different place in a few years.

And think Matthews will perform to the level of his contract and re-sign with the leafs in five years.

Also laugh at people here thinking they could have done a better job when the most high value thing they've ever negotiated is more lettuce on their Subway sandwich.

Nobody is comparing themselves to Dubas. That would just be silly.

What they're doing is comparing Dubas to other gm's who got their players to sign to much more team friendly deals.

I personally would rather have the good gm that convinces their players to sing good deals, as opposed to the bad gm who overpays all of his players and then relies on lame excuses and rationalizations.

Matthews signed for the same cap percentage on 5 year deals as players who had one or two 100 point seasons. Not a career high of 69 points at time of signing. The excuse of "But Matthews just gets injured all of the time" isn't viable reason to pay him more money.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Same percentage as Malkin and Crosby coming off their ELCs.

Crosby’s second contract paid him 20% more than Matthews in terms of cap hit proportion. Malkin made 5% more than Matthews.

 

[BigBlu]

The contract really sucks. Matthews was NOT CONVINCED to leave anything on the table. That's a fail by the GM. You need to give reasons to a player as to why a discount makes sense. (Team-first sales pitch, secondary marketing opportunities, front-loading the contract, signing bonus money, financial planning strategies, private box for an Auston Matthews foundation, etc, etc etc)

The fact is Dubas has sealed his doom with other contracts (read Marner) now. Marner's not going to be the sucker. He won't do a favour when no one else is. He's also not signing for more than 5 years either (not that Dubas has left enough money for that...).

Anybody can pay full market value or more..... That's not why Dubas was handed the reigns.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

all those cup rings there.

I count 11 without looking it up

 

[Havoc]

The only bad contract would have been NO contract.

All these wanna be accountants in here are a joke. Relax and enjoy the fact you have the privilege of Matthews on your team. He's a rare asset other teams wish they had and would hand him a blank cheque in a heart beat.

 

[Duke Silver]

Average of ES p/60 and p1/60

1. McDavid (22): 2.71 (5.29pp) --- A+ qoc
2. Matthews (21): 2.59 (6.00pp) -- A- qoc
3. Malkin (32): 2.56 (5.57pp) ------ B+ qoc
4. Kucherov (25): 2.54 (7.26pp) -- A qoc
5. Marchand (30): 2.44 (5.61pp) - A+ qoc

Genuinely curious: why would you average these? There isn't a point type that's between a primary point and a regular point. P1/60 on its own is good enough.

If this were basketball, it's like averaging 3pt shooting and 2pt shooting to get some sort of odd in-between figure.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

The only bad contract would have been NO contract.

All these wanna be accountants in here are a joke. Relax and enjoy the fact you have the privilege of Matthews on your team. He's a rare asset other teams wish they had and would hand him a blank cheque in a heart beat.

You new here? They bitched And whined for more than a decade, about this yeam being mediocre, and having nothing worth watching. We finally build a team that can win a Cup, and they started whining about conracts, and what hand shot a player is. This place is a miserable cesspool anymore.

Some are worth stopping by for a chat with, but the board has nosedived for years. Imagine that, it was better when we were worse.

 

[BigBlu]

The only bad contract would have been NO contract.

All these wanna be accountants in here are a joke. Relax and enjoy the fact you have the privilege of Matthews on your team. He's a rare asset other teams wish they had and would hand him a blank cheque in a heart beat.

I'm still getting over the privilege of having you on the board....

Seriously, I think Dubas' main advisor on the contract negotiation was Judd Moldaver. And he counted it a "privilege".

Matthews not so rare an asset to make room for Marner and Kapanen and Johnsson......

Or if you think that's not for him to worry about,,, you're mostly right. That's mostly Dubas. And he's pooched himself, the team, and the fans.

 

[zeke]

Genuinely curious: why would you average these? There isn't a point type that's between a primary point and a regular point. P1/60 on its own is good enough.

If this were basketball, it's like averaging 3pt shooting and 2pt shooting to get some sort of odd in-between figure.

well, only because I'm not comfortable using either of them on its own. I don't want to ignore secondary assists, but I don't like seeing them used as worth just as much as primary points, either.

tbh using the average still probably weights secondary assists too highly and primary assists too highly too, but it's a simple thing to calculate so I like it. this guy here thinks it's should be closer to 1.00 goal, .50ast1, .25ast2 - What is the objective value of an assist?


and the proper basketball analogy would be adding a secondary assist into their stats but making it worth only half as much as the 1st assist.

 

[BigBlu]

You new here? They *****ed And whined for more than a decade, about this yeam being mediocre, and having nothing worth watching. We finally build a team that can win a Cup, and they started whining about conracts, and what hand shot a player is. This place is a miserable cesspool anymore.

Some are worth stopping by for a chat with, but the board has nosedived for years. Imagine that, it was better when we were worse.

Question 1.

In a financial negotiation, that has permutations up and down your roster, is it important to maximize value or to "be cool and not whine"?

Question 2.

"Is not whining" the best way to guarantee "a team that can win a Cup"? Or is careful (strict!) attention to detail (even on the financial side) what can give you an edge to win!?

(We haven't won a thing yet)

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Question 1.

In a financial negotiation, that has permutations up and down your roster, is it important to maximize value or to "be cool and not whine"?

Question 2.

"Is not whining" the best way to guarantee "a team that can win a Cup"? Or is careful (strict!) attention to detail (even on the financial side) what can give you an edge to win!?

(We haven't won a thing yet)

You wouldn’t be happy either way. I took you off of “ignore” just to remind you of that. We paid our superstar what he’ll be well worth. We’re lucky enough to have 3 of them. Multiple cup winning teams have won with less than we have. We’re posied for great things in the next decade. Focus on your life more, and enjoy sports for what they are: Events you have no control over, that have nothing to do with your actual everyday life, and that employ people you’re not paying.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

You new here? They *****ed And whined for more than a decade, about this yeam being mediocre, and having nothing worth watching. We finally build a team that can win a Cup, and they started whining about conracts, and what hand shot a player is. This place is a miserable cesspool anymore.

Some are worth stopping by for a chat with, but the board has nosedived for years. Imagine that, it was better when we were worse.

We all show up to the lively bar not to enjoy everyone there, but just a few, leggy ladies with great smiles...

Anyways, same applies here lol.

Same reason why we lose its 30 pages of chatter and hot takes. And when we win it barely reaches 10 LOL

Love it or hate it... this is my local bar, and I love it. Go leafs go!

 

[ErnieLeafs]

We all show up to the lively bar not to enjoy everyone there, but just a few, leggy ladies with great smiles...

Anyways, same applies here lol.

Same reason why we lose its 30 pages of chatter and hot takes. And when we win it barely reaches 10 LOL

Love it or hate it... this is my local bar, and I love it. Go leafs go!

I once loved this place, many moons ago.

 

[BigBlu]

You wouldn’t be happy either way. I took you off of “ignore” just to remind you of that. We paid our superstar what he’ll be well worth. We’re lucky enough to have 3 of them. Multiple cup winning teams have won with less than we have. We’re posied for great things in the next decade. Focus on your life more, and enjoy sports for what they are: Events you have no control over, that have nothing to do with your actual everyday life, and that employ people you’re not paying.

Either way? Either which way?

I'm happy to win, just like you. Apparently. But we haven't won anything yet.

This Matthews contract makes it infinitely more difficult to sign Marner to a long term deal. Or add defence. Or Kapanen or Johnsson. Or to trade Brown other than for pennies on the dollar.

The player is great. The contract/our future prospects could have been much better.

But I'm happy you are so content. It's a great state of mind.

(Signing Matthews by itself hasn't won us anything yet. We haven't won anything.)

 

[Menzinger]

I'm still getting over the privilege of having you on the board....

Seriously, I think Dubas' main advisor on the contract negotiation was Judd Moldaver. And he counted it a "privilege".

Matthews not so rare an asset to make room for Marner and Kapanen and Johnsson......

Or if you think that's not for him to worry about,,, you're mostly right. That's mostly Dubas. And he's pooched himself, the team, and the fans.

It’s not a choice between them though: you’re envisioning a problem that hasn’t happened yet

 

[kb]

It’s not a choice between them though: you’re envisioning a problem that hasn’t happened yet

The IQ of this board has been slipping for years. It's insane. Best Leaf team since their cup days, and yet they feebly try to be the smartest guy in the room by creating problems that will never happen.

This place is becoming the lowest common denominator.

 

[BigBlu]

It’s not a choice between them though: you’re envisioning a problem that hasn’t happened yet

Every point they get should make you nervous. Or you can just throw sand in your eyes....

Dubas sacrificed the awesome young depth in order to make it easier for himself in that room with Matthews' agent. It's jmho. I guess we will see. But,,, the cap applies to TO as much as it does to FLA. And it's a tyrant. We receive no indulgences from the league...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I dont care how his regular season goes.
I'm hoping Matthews' aggression comes back for the playoffs.

 

[BigBlu]

The IQ of this board has been slipping for years. It's insane. Best Leaf team since their cup days, and yet they feebly try to be the smartest guy in the room by creating problems that will never happen.

This place is becoming the lowest common denominator.

I'm personally leaving now. Don't know exactly who you are talking about or how you've graded our relative IQ's........ I just hope the board remembers that "Kapanen leaving" or "Jonsson leaving" or "Marner signs a bridge deal" or "Connor Brown traded with a pick just to divest a salary obligation" was never going to happen, if and when it happens. Like really? Anyone here have a savings account or save for a rainy day if your dish washer breaks?? Anyone think it's wise to factor in future obligations or future contingencies??

 

[Menzinger]

Every point they get should make you nervous. Or you can just throw sand in your eyes....

Dubas sacrificed the awesome young depth in order to make it easier for himself in that room with Matthews' agent. It's jmho. I guess we will see. But,,, the cap applies to TO as much as it does to FLA. And it's a tyrant. We receive no indulgences from the league...

Is it Matthews contract that’s the problem
in that regard or is it paying 6.25 million to a 40 point Marleau? Or 4.5 million to Zaitsev playing like a #5 player? Or the 2 million spent on a 17 point Brown?

Either way, with guys like Johnsson or Kapanen will either sign at a price that works or they get traded for other pieces that can help the team.

 

[BigBlu]

Is it Matthews contract that’s the problem
in that regard or is it paying 6.25 million to a 40 point Marleau? Or 4.5 million to Zaitsev playing like a #5 player? Or the 2 million spent on a 17 point Brown?

Either way, with guys like Johnsson or Kapanen will either sign at a price that works or they get traded for other pieces that can help the team.

Oh my gosh,,, you really want ME to get started on that Marleau deal!!!! I hated it from the first second. Everyone KNEW the year Matthews and Marner came up for their deal. Like it was staring at you on y0ur ledger/calendar!! But Babs and Lou got wet over "Team Cananda" Marleau. It was 180 degrees against the original Shanaplan. Another STUPID contract. From day 1. Hasn't won us a friggin playoff round. And the youngens never needed him to "mentor" them at Dutch Blitz... Such pathetic revisionist history by the Toronto media lackeys.

Edit: The entire goal at that stage was to "keep our powder dry". Would sure have come in handy... Too bad.

 

[gamer1035]

I just looked up Kucherov and he signed an 8 year extension for 9.5 million. That extension is also mostly UFA years. It also only kicks in next year. Dude also had 100 points last year and will have way more this year...

How the f*** did Matthews have the position to even argue for this deal, let alone get it? Who the f*** did he compare himself to? Higher cap hit, no UFA years, shorter term, and has nowhere near the stats Kucherov has.

 

[34]

I just looked up Kucherov and he signed an 8 year extension for 9.5 million. That extension is also mostly UFA years. It also only kicks in next year. Dude also had 100 points last year and will have way more this year...

How the **** did Matthews have the position to even argue for this deal, let alone get it? Who the **** did he compare himself to? Higher cap hit, no UFA years, shorter term, and has nowhere near the stats Kucherov has.

As big of a Matthews fan as I am... he is gone after the 5 year contract.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Is it Matthews contract that’s the problem
in that regard or is it paying 6.25 million to a 40 point Marleau? Or 4.5 million to Zaitsev playing like a #5 player? Or the 2 million spent on a 17 point Brown?

Either way, with guys like Johnsson or Kapanen will either sign at a price that works or they get traded for other pieces that can help the team.

I love argument like this.

"Don't just be mad at the Matthews dramatic overpayment. Because there's a whole bunch of other dramatic overpayments our trainwreck of a franchise has given out."

How exactly is that supposed to make anybody feel any better about the Matthews dramatic overpayment?

 

[Mr Hockey]

I love argument like this.

"Don't just be mad at the Matthews dramatic overpayment. Because there's a whole bunch of other dramatic overpayments our trainwreck of a franchise has given out."

How exactly is that supposed to make anybody feel any better about the Matthews dramatic overpayment?

Do you believe this kid who just signed a massive contract is now trashing the coach in public?