Matthews/Marner

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,660
so it's a good thing to put our two highest PPG guys together on one line, you guys sure that will make the teams goals for go up?
 
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Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,037
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Milton
I'm going to watch this game now!

Hopefully Tavares gets Nylander and Kapanen. That would be an interesting line to bring back the Nylander-Kappy duo from the marlie days.
 

Joedoggy

Registered User
Feb 7, 2017
929
287
Mike once again shows his lack of pulse for the team.... He will now start throwing lines together "again" until he wins...then what do you get?....The i told you so Egocock postgame.

Too busy continually mixing the batter...never sure when to put the cake in the oven...thats Mikey.

He will keep the fans busy with change once again like a magic act...an act where he crosses his fingers more than knows the result.
 

mapleleaf979

Registered User
Jan 14, 2012
4,200
1,302
Toronto, Ontario
This should have happened a long time ago.

Agreed. Babcock has always responded aggressively when asked about this pairing. It never made any sense. Babcock would not even pair them last 5 mins of a game to mix it up when the team looks stale. Im not sure how Babcock could sleep at night if he was fired after never looking at this combo. Top 5 playmaker, Top 5 shooter in the NHL and his blatant refusal to look at it, over the last 2.5 years. Minus a 2 game stretch I believe with Martin on the other wing, last year.

Question is....Is this actually Babcock's decision? Based on his history it appears he was dead set against this although having really no good reason to not ever try it.
 

Beanzy

Registered User
Nov 14, 2018
398
693
My ideal lineup:

Kapanen - Tavares - Nylander
Johnsson - Matthews - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Hyman
Moore - Lindholm - Brown

I'd even be tempted to move Moore up and Marleau down in this lineup... but Babcock would never allow it.
 
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Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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I know, hopefully this gets JT and Marner going.

Agreed, Babcock has some serious splainin' to do.

JT has 30 goals (tied 2nd in NHL OA) and Marner has 61 points (tied for 8th in NHL scoring OA) and for the life of me, why did it take Babcock this long to break them up and put Matthews and Marner together is a mystery that only the coach must understand that reasoning?

On a serious note, I wonder how long this Mattews/Marner tryout will last, because it will be interesting to see how this impacts JT and his production and new line (minus Marner), and if breaking up a highly successful combo to try and kick start another struggling one might have a net breakeven effect?
 
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Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Matthews & Marner together makes it an easier game plan for the opposition coaches as now they will face the best QofC of the forwards/defense.

Having 2 successful offensive lines with JT+MM on one and AM on another creates mismatches and headaches for the opposition and advantages for the Leafs.

Bottom line Babcock is forced to negate his advantage to compensate for a struggling Nylander, who if he was performing up his contract as a $7 mil player, then Babcock wouldn't even be contemplating this move of his best offensive eggs in the same basket.

When the defending Stanley Cup champs see Babcock's hand being forced not by them as an opposition strategy to defend, but trying to address his own teams struggles they must be smiling when they see

Marleau -- Matthews -- Marner
Hyman -- Tavares -- Kapanen

This turns Leafs 2nd line essentially into a checking line going up against either Backstrom or Kuznetsov, with the top offensive lines of each team wherever OV and Marner line-up going head to head.
 

rumman

Registered User
Sep 10, 2008
13,348
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Matthews & Marner together makes it an easier game plan for the opposition coaches as now they will face the best QofC of the forwards/defense.

Having 2 successful offensive lines with JT+MM on one and AM on another creates mismatches and headaches for the opposition and advantages for the Leafs.

Bottom line Babcock is forced to negate his advantage to compensate for a struggling Nylander, who if he was performing up his contract as a $7 mil player, then Babcock wouldn't even be contemplating this move of his best offensive eggs in the same basket.

When the defending Stanley Cup champs see Babcock's hand being forced not by them as an opposition strategy to defend, but trying to address his own teams struggles they must be smiling when they see

Marleau -- Matthews -- Marner
Kapanen -- Tavares -- Brown

This turns Leafs 2nd line essentially into a checking line going up against either Backstrom or Kuznetsov, with the top offensive lines of each team wherever OV and Marner line-up going head to head.
should be interesting.........
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,530
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T.O.
I don't like it. It makes us virtually a one line team. We need Matthews and Nylander to rediscover their chemistry so we can have two dynamic duos up front.

I wish Babs would just stick with the lines from the Tampa Bay game for a while to give them a chance to click.
 

GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
7,097
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I get why he waited to put those 2 together. With Kappy showing he is a legit top 6 forward, this allows him to do this without compromising down the lineup.

Question though, if Matthews is truly an elite centre, why does everyone feel he needs Marner to get him going. Typically, you would put a struggling player with your best player to get him going, not the other way around. Guess its obvious that Marner is their best player.
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
15,854
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I get why he waited to put those 2 together. With Kappy showing he is a legit top 6 forward, this allows him to do this without compromising down the lineup.

Question though, if Matthews is truly an elite centre, why does everyone feel he needs Marner to get him going. Typically, you would put a struggling player with your best player to get him going, not the other way around. Guess its obvious that Marner is their best player.
I imagine the feeling is that JT's production wont tail too much. Perhaps the combination of two hard checking forwards, lessened QoC and the ability of Kapanen to step up when given an opportunity might give JT more opportunities. Matthews is playing for a good contract so this is really the best he can expect for help and that might spark him. Marner could look at this as an opportunity to show how valuable he is in all opportunities so that might even benefit him.
The big hail mary I see is that there is no chemistry being built if your linemates change game by game. I'm not putting this all on Babcock. His comments expressed reluctance to commit to these line for any meaningful amount of time. There is some outside pressure happening here.
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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I get why he waited to put those 2 together. With Kappy showing he is a legit top 6 forward, this allows him to do this without compromising down the lineup.

Question though, if Matthews is truly an elite centre, why does everyone feel he needs Marner to get him going. Typically, you would put a struggling player with your best player to get him going, not the other way around. Guess its obvious that Marner is their best player.

Babcock is actually compromising his beliefs of a balance attack vs a stacked 1 line at the expense of the others.

This move is more desperation than strategic on the coaches part and he will be trigger happy to abandon this plan ASAP.

The true measuring stick of this move will not be how well Matthews and Marner perform together (which is expected and done for this exact reason) but as you nailed it, how much offense he is sacrificing and how effective that Hyman -- Tavares -- Kapanen line is as secondary scoring.

The premise behind the JT signing itself was to give the Leafs 2 dynamic offensive lines with Matthews and Marner separated and each driving their own lines, and giving the opposition nightmares to defend.

This might be a one and done experiment that might not even make it through a complete game, so I would suggest fans don't get too attached to this idea as its a reactive one and not a proactive one by the coach. IMO
 
Oct 15, 2014
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The Duke's Archives
Matthews & Marner together makes it an easier game plan for the opposition coaches as now they will face the best QofC of the forwards/defense.

Having 2 successful offensive lines with JT+MM on one and AM on another creates mismatches and headaches for the opposition and advantages for the Leafs.

Bottom line Babcock is forced to negate his advantage to compensate for a struggling Nylander, who if he was performing up his contract as a $7 mil player, then Babcock wouldn't even be contemplating this move of his best offensive eggs in the same basket.

When the defending Stanley Cup champs see Babcock's hand being forced not by them as an opposition strategy to defend, but trying to address his own teams struggles they must be smiling when they see

Marleau -- Matthews -- Marner
Hyman -- Tavares -- Kapanen

This turns Leafs 2nd line essentially into a checking line going up against either Backstrom or Kuznetsov, with the top offensive lines of each team wherever OV and Marner line-up going head to head.

Putting the best players together hasn't hurt teams like Calgary, Winnipeg, Washington (forever) etc. The 2nd line doesn't need to be a checking unit if they have the puck more often than not. This is why we signed Tavares; he should be able to drive his own line and create offense.
 
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Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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JT usually plays a better all around game with lesser talented players. I also think the Kadri-Willie-Brown line will get better matchups as JT line will probably be against opposing 1st line.
 

Buds17

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
8,223
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There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Babs has been playing our best 2 forwards together all season in Tavares and Marner.

That's a fair argument and one I'd agree with. Though I'd say Matthews has been not too far behind them.

These are the players that are currently here and going to have to pull the team out of its current slump, in one configuration or another. Would be great to have success and be able to run with some combinations for a stretch, healthy lineup permitting.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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JT usually plays a better all around game with lesser talented players. I also think the Kadri-Willie-Brown line will get better matchups as JT line will probably be against opposing 1st line.

I was thinking the same thing, Tavares has a history of playing with lesser talents and doing very well so maybe Matthews needs Marner more than he does at this particular point in time.

What I'd really like to see is for us to try all kinds of different combos. We have a ton of talent, why not mix it up and keep our opponents guessing. I know it's not Babcock's style but you never know, maybe he can learn new tricks.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
16,522
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I was thinking the same thing, Tavares has a history of playing with lesser talents and doing very well so maybe Matthews needs Marner more than he does at this particular point in time.

What I'd really like to see is for us to try all kinds of different combos. We have a ton of talent, why not mix it up and keep our opponents guessing. I know it's not Babcock's style but you never know, maybe he can learn new tricks.

I think eventually Willie will be playing next to JT, whole Brown-Kadri-Kap will be the energy-pest-shut down line.
 

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