Matthews,Marner,Rielly Vs Eichel,Skinner,Dahlin Which trio for the future?

[93LEAFS]

I said this before and I will say it again. Right after being drafted 1st overall in 2006 and 2014, both Erik Johnson and Aaron Ekblad got the same hype as elite #1 Defenseman that Dalhin has been getting. I think it's fair to say both their careers did not turn out that way.

He's a better prospect than either of those guys were. Jones was always a better prospect than Ekblad, whereas Doughty and Hedman were better than Johnson. Its just the way the draft classes were split up that those guy ended up going 1st. Dahlin would be in the discussion at one in any draft this decade outside of McDavid, but it doesn't mean he's a lock to go over Matthews or previously Tavares and Stamkos.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He's a better prospect than either of those guys were. Jones was always a better prospect than Ekblad, whereas Doughty and Hedman were better than Johnson. Its just the way the draft classes were split up that those guy ended up going 1st. Dahlin would be in the discussion at one in any draft this decade outside of McDavid, but it doesn't mean he's a lock to go over Matthews or previously Tavares and Stamkos.

I can't see Dalhin going 1st overall in the years Matthews, Tavares and Stamkos went 1st overall.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

RIGHT NOW Dahlin is already better than Rielly

A prime example of the continued underrating of Rielly. Dahlin hasn’t even played a game. Rielly isn’t some #3-4 defenseman here. He’s a “low-end” #1 with room to continue to grow. Dahlin certainly has the potential to become better, but claiming that he’s better than a #1 NHL defenseman right now is asinine and the only reason it wouldn’t be universally laughed off of these boards is because Rielly is a Leaf.

 

[LeafsNation75]

A prime example of the continued underrating of Rielly. Dahlin hasn’t even played a game. Rielly isn’t some #3-4 defenseman here. He’s a “low-end” #1 with room to continue to grow. Dahlin certainly has the potential to become better, but claiming that he’s better than a #1 NHL defenseman right now is asinine, and the only reason it wouldn’t be universally laughed off of these boards is because Rielly is a Leaf.

The way opinion changed about Auston Matthews when the Leafs won the draft lottery in 2016, I'm willing to bet had the Leafs drafted Dalhin he would not be talked about being a generational player and all this other hype before playing 1 NHL game.

 

[Aladyyn]

The overrating of Rielly by Leafs fans is hilarious given their arguments against Ristolainen in the past.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The overrating of Rielly by Leafs fans is hilarious given their arguments against Ristolainen in the past.

how so? Rielly performs better in tougher minutes. he's easily ahead of Risto

 

[Aladyyn]

how so? Rielly performs better in tougher minutes. he's easily ahead of Risto

good joke

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

good joke

tougher QoC, worse QoT, and more defensive zone starts. At least you can admit Rielly performs better

 

[Aladyyn]

tougher QoC, worse QoT, and more defensive zone starts. At least you can admit Rielly performs better

???????????????????????????????

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

???????????????????????????????

Rielly: 28.2
Risto: 28.37

I love how you only focus on one tiny aspect of my posts and still get it wrong somehow, and act like you're actually proving something. another swing and a miss. Now you've conceded performance, quality of competition, and defensive zone starts to Rielly

 

[Aladyyn]

Rielly: 28.2
Risto: 28.37

I love how you only focus on one tiny aspect of my posts and still get it wrong somehow, and act like you're actually proving something. another swing and a miss. Now you've conceded performance, quality of competition, and defensive zone starts to Rielly

CF% QoT
Ristolainen 46.28
Rielly 49.12

xGF% QoT
Ristolainen 45.34
Rielly 51.4

 

[Royal Thunder]

I said this before and I will say it again. Right after being drafted 1st overall in 2006 and 2014, both Erik Johnson and Aaron Ekblad got the same hype as elite #1 Defenseman that Dalhin has been getting. I think it's fair to say both their careers did not turn out that way.

You might have said it before and you might be saying it again but you're wrong both times. Dahlin has been called the best d prospect since Denis Potvin, Ekblad and Johnson were considered franchise D but they never had anywhere near the hype Hedman had, let alone
Dahlin.

Keep downplaying his talent, we all know if the Leafs had him you would be singing a very different tune. Have fun trying to win a cup with that defense.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

You might have said it before and you might be saying it again but you're wrong both times. Dahlin has been called the best d prospect since Denis Potvin, Ekblad and Johnson were considered franchise D but they never had anywhere near the hype Hedman had, let alone
Dahlin.

Keep downplaying his talent, we all know if the Leafs had him you would be singing a very different tune. Have fun trying to win a cup with that defense.

So would everybody else.

 

[Royal Thunder]

So would everybody else.

Yup it's true. We're all biased as hell lol

 

[LeafsNation75]

Keep downplaying his talent, we all know if the Leafs had him you would be singing a very different tune.

All I have said was let's see how he is before crowing him as the next Nicklas Lidstrom before he has played an NHL game and I have been very consistent about that.

If the Leafs had him the opinion about him would be the same as Auston Matthews right after the Leafs won the draft lottery in 2016, so don't deny that's the truth because you know it is.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

From what I remember it was John Shannon was the only one who reported this rift between Matthews and Babcock, however it was to a Buffalo radio station. That's why at the time I didn't believe him because it was something Bob McKenzie or Pierre LeBrun didn't even bother to mention. Plus why would a Buffalo radio station even care about a Leafs related story? So that's why I didn't believe him and for him to yell can we talk about the playoffs, they were talking about it because he is the one who gave that story any life.

Darren Millard reported it on hockey central actually on a Toronto station.

So if it wasn’t true Babcock wouldn’t of filed to Arizona to meet with Auston nor would it of been reported in a national broadcast.


You don’t want to believe it Id day. All Shannon wAs doing was echoing what others said when he was on the buffalo station.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Darren Millard reported it on hockey central actually on a Toronto station.

So if it wasn’t true Babcock wouldn’t of filed to Arizona to meet with Auston nor would it of been reported in a national broadcast.


You don’t want to believe it Id day. All Shannon wAs doing was echoing what others said when he was on the buffalo station.

I believe Millard only reported it because Shannon first reported it himself and since they work for Sportsnet that's the reason why.

Babcock also said himself he was in Arizona for a vacation with his family and decided to see Matthews which there was nothing wrong with him doing. I will also says again Babcock also went to visit Andersen in Denmark during the World Championships right after seeing Matthews, yet that's something others want to forget about ever happening.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

how so? Rielly performs better in tougher minutes. he's easily ahead of Risto

These “easily” and “clearly” things are a bit of a stretch.

This is the first season I agree Reilly is ahead of Risto but he’s one of those Dman advanced stats completely misguide on actual play like losing one on one battles, plus minus. When Myers was here his numbers were atrocious when being the guy, to this point ristolainen had to be the guy on a terrible backend with no stable goaltending. Look at Justin Schultz when looked at to be the guy in Edmonton goes to the pens and everything about his numbers suddenly change. I have a susociin if ristolainen were on the Flames preds bolts and maybe Toronto all those bad advanced stats change. He’s fifth in power play scoring among Dman in the last five years and I’m pretty sure top ten if not closer to top five among all Dman in scoring in the past five years. He also is by far the most dependable Dman on the team that can break up odd m-man rushes, win loose battles in the corner, hits, blocks shots, is in top 5 in total minutes among any player in the NHL.

Since pairing with a better stay at home Dman then him in Marco Scandella his overall play improved dramatically and as you know with Reilly when your the top guy on a defense that allows so many shots your going to get caught a lot.

Ristolainen had you watched him more then a few times I’m sure you’d agree is still a great Dman.

Since I thin Reilly is underrated like Mitch Marner I think it’s far to say he’s better then ristolainen right now but that clearly word is just too much.

I think ristolainen on a better team could be a top 10-15 Dman in this league. OR when Buffalo if they get good everything about his game will suddenly turn with a domino effect like it did with Schultz and Myers.

Ristolainen has gone from underrated to overrated and now back to underrated (by people who just rely on advanced numbers) not saying that’s you but a lot of people don’t watch all the little things he does and how much better he is then all the guys around him. Obviously Dahlin will probably be better, he’s exceeded expectations everywhere he plays (Dahlin) but how soon, I’m not sure.

So many things to watch for this season. Even still Morgan Reilly is a top defensemen in my view but not too 15. Probably too 20.


Hedman
Karlsson
Doughty
Josi
Petriangelo
Jones
Subban
Burns
Provorov
Klingberg
Suter
Carlson
Vlasic
Ghostisbehere
Keith (one bad year doesent completely change him off he could bounce back)
OEL (see Keith)
Barrie
Krug
Hamilton
Weber (when healthy)
Trouba
Byfuglien
Ekblad

So there’s over 20 but you could argue Reilly is ahead of a few of those guys above right now for sure.

After that IMO it’s close you could put him along but mostly above all these guys like Giordano, Werenski, Leddy, Muzzin, Sergachev, Shattenkirk, Parayko, Letang, Mcavoy/Chara, Spurgeon-Dumba (though I think brodin is underrated like braun and Ryan Ellis all three guys play in the shadows of three d man in there teams ahead of them) Hanifin, Faulk, Vatanen, Larsson, Ristolainen, Niskanen/Orlov, Petry, Schmidt, Green, Tanev (if not playing hurt like he does all the time)

It’s like when doing a top Center tanking after the the first 5, everyone from 6-18 are extremely close.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I believe Millard only reported it because Shannon first reported it himself and since they work for Sportsnet that's the reason why.

Babcock also said himself he was in Arizona for a vacation with his family and decided to see Matthews which there was nothing wrong with him doing. I will also says again Babcock also went to visit Andersen in Denmark during the World Championships right after seeing Matthews, yet that's something others want to forget about ever happening.

Why would that matter though? There was a rift it’s undeniable the two guys even admitted they don’t always see eye to eye and all you had to do was even look st Babcock yelling at Matthews and most stars in he league nod to agree even if they don’t agree and Matthews frustrated didn’t make any facial expressions or say anything. Of course being a coach of babckcks stature I’m sure that bothered him. I’m not saying there was a huge senator like breakdown or problem because both guys also said they’re fine now but he did want to smooth things over. Then it’s matthews playoff performance that really got the media going with a “there must be something wrong here” narrative, then factoring in ice time and everything else that helped fuel the fire. Now no letter on the Jersey is even adding more drama, not saying it’s warranted just saying there is. I’m also not saying it’s all on those two I’m just eluding to the fact there was probably a small rift between the two and the Toronto media blew it way out of proportion like they do in all major Canadian markets.

The reason nobody cares about visiting Andersen in Denmark is cause that’s cause it’s a non story.


Also.....


I wanted to touch on you saying ekblad and Erik Johnson didn’t live up to the hype and it’s fair to say. No it’s absoltely not fair.

While hyped huge ekblad still won the Calder and had had injury issues he still could be tremendous he’s still pretty young and it takes dmen years to develop look at Hedman. And look how special he is now.

Johnson has been no where near but here’s your problem.

Dahlin is projected to be the best defensemen in almost the
Last half century.

Don’t take my word for it every scouting site says best Dman in 40 years, etc. Everywhere Dahlin steps foot on he makes magic.

He needs to do a hell of s lot to live up to his hype, I agree but it feels like a lot of you are ready to call him overrated before he even plays a game. If he was a leaf he’d be getting Matthews treatment, I’m pretty positive.

So while ekblad was only one of a few to get special plyer status in the CHL, the hype for Dahlin is something not seen in a lot of people’s life time.

It’s a safe bet he willl be better then Reilly because there’s no indication based on where’s it’s going he won’t be. Reilly is damn good as I pointed out above and a number one Dman IMO Abe’s not a superstar, he is a star though.

Erik karlsson who not only is a superstar and elite, one of the best if not the best said Dahlin is quite a bit ahead of him then he was at his age.

He’s been called Lidstrom meets Kalrsson and has every bit of potential to not only be on there level but pass it.

That’s something special.

Something way above
Ekblad and Erik Johnson, we need to see it sure, but acting all upset people think Dahlin will Better then Reilly is kind of ridiculous considering the poll asks going forward not right now but going forward.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Why would that matter though? There was a rift it’s undeniable the two guys even admitted they don’t always see eye to eye and all you had to do was even look st Babcock yelling at Matthews and most stars in he league nod to agree even if they don’t agree and Matthews frustrated didn’t make any facial expressions or say anything. Of course being a coach of babckcks stature I’m sure that bothered him. I’m not saying there was a huge senator like breakdown or problem because both guys also said they’re fine now but he did want to smooth things over. Then it’s matthews playoff performance that really got the media going with a “there must be something wrong here” narrative, then factoring in ice time and everything else that helped fuel the fire. Now no letter on the Jersey is even adding more drama, not saying it’s warranted just saying there is. I’m also not saying it’s all on those two I’m just eluding to the fact there was probably a small rift between the two and the Toronto media blew it way out of proportion like they do in all major Canadian markets.

The reason nobody cares about visiting Andersen in Denmark is cause that’s cause it’s a non story.


Also.....


I wanted to touch on you saying ekblad and Erik Johnson didn’t live up to the hype and it’s fair to say. No it’s absoltely not fair.

While hyped huge ekblad still won the Calder and had had injury issues he still could be tremendous he’s still pretty young and it takes dmen years to develop look at Hedman. And look how special he is now.

Johnson has been no where near but here’s your problem.

Dahlin is projected to be the best defensemen in almost the
Last half century.

Don’t take my word for it every scouting site says best Dman in 40 years, etc. Everywhere Dahlin steps foot on he makes magic.

He needs to do a hell of s lot to live up to his hype, I agree but it feels like a lot of you are ready to call him overrated before he even plays a game. If he was a leaf he’d be getting Matthews treatment, I’m pretty positive.

So while ekblad was only one of a few to get special plyer status in the CHL, the hype for Dahlin is something not seen in a lot of people’s life time.

It’s a safe bet he willl be better then Reilly because there’s no indication based on where’s it’s going he won’t be. Reilly is damn good as I pointed out above and a number one Dman IMO Abe’s not a superstar, he is a star though.

Erik karlsson who not only is a superstar and elite, one of the best if not the best said Dahlin is quite a bit ahead of him then he was at his age.

He’s been called Lidstrom meets Kalrsson and has every bit of potential to not only be on there level but pass it.

That’s something special.

Something way above
Ekblad and Erik Johnson, we need to see it sure, but acting all upset people think Dahlin will Better then Reilly is kind of ridiculous considering the poll asks going forward not right now but going forward.

It's funny how quickly non Leafs fans forget Matthews 4 goals and 5 total points in six games during the 2017 playoffs and only want to focus how he had a disappointing 2018 playoffs. I'm not denying that he did, it's just some people act like what he did in the 2017 playoffs never happened.

Matthews not being given an A to wear this season is not a problem and wouldn't you agree if someone like Tavares or Rielly was named captain it would look a lot worse?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Also.....


I wanted to touch on you saying ekblad and Erik Johnson didn’t live up to the hype and it’s fair to say. No it’s absoltely not fair.

While hyped huge ekblad still won the Calder and had had injury issues he still could be tremendous he’s still pretty young and it takes dmen years to develop look at Hedman. And look how special he is now.

Johnson has been no where near but here’s your problem.

Dahlin is projected to be the best defensemen in almost the
Last half century.

Don’t take my word for it every scouting site says best Dman in 40 years, etc. Everywhere Dahlin steps foot on he makes magic.

He needs to do a hell of s lot to live up to his hype, I agree but it feels like a lot of you are ready to call him overrated before he even plays a game. If he was a leaf he’d be getting Matthews treatment, I’m pretty positive.

So while ekblad was only one of a few to get special plyer status in the CHL, the hype for Dahlin is something not seen in a lot of people’s life time.

It’s a safe bet he willl be better then Reilly because there’s no indication based on where’s it’s going he won’t be. Reilly is damn good as I pointed out above and a number one Dman IMO Abe’s not a superstar, he is a star though.

Erik karlsson who not only is a superstar and elite, one of the best if not the best said Dahlin is quite a bit ahead of him then he was at his age.

He’s been called Lidstrom meets Kalrsson and has every bit of potential to not only be on there level but pass it.

That’s something special.

Something way above
Ekblad and Erik Johnson, we need to see it sure, but acting all upset people think Dahlin will Better then Reilly is kind of ridiculous considering the poll asks going forward not right now but going forward.

I don't think it's outrageous or wrong to say that Dalhin needs to back up all his hype and what's expected of him before he plays an NHL game. I would still say that if Ottawa or even Montreal got the 1st pick this year, so it's not because it happened to be Buffalo.

 

[Pyrophorus]

RIGHT NOW Dahlin is already better than Rielly

Hasn't done anything yet. Its at least arguable.

 

[Pyrophorus]

He needs to do a hell of s lot to live up to his hype, I agree but it feels like a lot of you are ready to call him overrated before he even plays a game. If he was a leaf he’d be getting Matthews treatment, I’m pretty positive.

No-I want him to play a game, before he's called anything.
Denis Potvin wasn't great in his 1st 2 years. I'm just saying its going to take time.

 

[authentic]

Leafs, but extremely close.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If you include Skinner in the poll, the Leafs win.