Matthews,Marner,Rielly Vs Eichel,Skinner,Dahlin Which trio for the future?

[93LEAFS]

If Dahlin hits his potential he's the best player of the group.
The difference between Mathews and Eichel isn't that Significant
The difference between Marner and Skinner is, and it makes up some ground but it doesn't make up for how much better Dahlin should be than Rielly. (again if he hits his potential) So went Sabres

Dahlin isn't a better prospect than Matthews or Eichel were. He has a very high ceiling, but assuming Matthews hits his potential, you are talking about a Sakic. I don't think Dahlin's ceiling is significantly higher than that.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Remember all the hype other Defenseman like Erik Johnson and Aaron Ekblad got after they went 1st overall in 2006 and 2014. A lot of the things said about their potential as elite #1 franchise Defenseman who could save a team has also been said about Dalhin and I think it's fair to say they never lived up to their hype. So that's why I'm not rushing to call Dalhin a generational player who will become the next Nicklas Lidstrom.

Exactly.
Even if he did, it would take a few years.
Makes me laugh to see people saying Dahlin>>Matthews right now.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Lol these hot takes. Jack is a cancer, Marner=Eichel, Eichel isn't a franchise player. It's all just so ridiculous. Eichel is an incredible player and we don't need to convince salty Leaf fans of that. He's a great kid who has matured a TON these last couple of years.

Matthews is a stud, Sabres fans love him as a player and respect his talent immensely. But so many of you guys just have it out for Eichel, it's pretty cute. See you on the ice...

Leaf fans are the worst.

 

[BM14]

Leaf fans are the worst.

Buffalo will find a way to ruin their prospects.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Buffalo will find a way to ruin their prospects.

Meh

 

[Royal Thunder]

Dahlin isn't a better prospect than Matthews or Eichel were. He has a very high ceiling, but assuming Matthews hits his potential, you are talking about a Sakic. I don't think Dahlin's ceiling is significantly higher than that.

He absolutely, unequivocally, 100% is a better prospect than those two. Dahlin's "ceiling" is one of the best defenseman to ever play the game.

 

[93LEAFS]

He absolutely, unequivocally, 100% is a better prospect than those two. Dahlin's "ceiling" is one of the best defenseman to ever play the game.

Matthews ceiling is a guy who wins a couple Harts. We haven't seen a defender do that since Orr. I'm not sure Dahlin is likely to do that. Elite centers are generally more valuable and impactful than elite defenders. But, believe what you want.

There are many people in the scouting industry that would doubt its as clear cut as you state it.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Matthews ceiling is a guy who wins a couple Harts. We haven't seen a defender do that since Orr. I'm not sure Dahlin is likely to do that. Elite centers are generally more valuable and impactful than elite defenders. But, believe what you want.

There are many people in the scouting industry that would doubt its as clear cut as you state it.

I think you have a point about the two 1Cs being hyped more but I think it’s hard to compare a defensemen to them so the hype is hard to compare but I don’t think all three guys were very far off from each other tbh.

I think there’s more of a “risk” he might not turn out then there was with eichel and matthews there’s more-so because of his position and the big ice change (and what we’ve seen with Erik Johnson jack Johnson even Hedman) was not very good the first few years.

I remember the hype for boumeester that’s not to say he’s bad but the hype was HUGE. I’m sure you remember.

However the hype for Dahlin has been more for a Dman then I can remember in a long, long time. I’m not saying all leaf fans but it’s a strange coincidence that the second buffalo won the draft lottery his value dropped significantly by people who don’t like the sabres.

I don’t understand it but I get it.

Not saying that’s what YOUR doing because your not bashing Dahlin but certain leaf fans in here have labelled him “just a prospect” and he is one but to go as far as saying “just one” is bit overboard.

We do need to see him in the NHL before were ready to even come close to rating him with the 1Cs. And even if he’s lights out this year he still would have to be beyond godly to be compared with them. Because afterall it would just be one season. So either way you slice it, Dahlin EVEN IF he lives up won’t really be on there level for at least a couple years and that’s IF he lives up to the potential and a bit more. So sure, It’s all premature, but I think people are assuming it’s a safe bet he will be excellent.

I do fear that if the sabres are good this year (and fear may be an overstatement because if they as good that would be way more then I’m expecting) but I kind of will be mad that Dahlin would get all the credit because he’s the new guy who “changed” the team. When in reality there are like 9 new guys, theee new goalies, and a coach who most of the team agreed they learned his system only by March. So I do see potential for him to become overrated already before he even plays. But let’s stay consistent because if he’s not hyped as Matthews or eichel then he’s not overrated if he doesent live up to there level. Because he wasn’t projected there in the first place. I’m sure you will but I meant for Others too.

Some people think a 1D is more important then a 1C, I don’t but some people do including scouts I guess.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think you have a point about the two 1Cs being hyped more but I think it’s hard to compare a defensemen to them so the hype is hard to compare but I don’t think all three guys were very far off from each other tbh.

I think there’s more of a “risk” he might not turn out then there was with eichel and matthews there’s more-so because of his position and the big ice change (and what we’ve seen with Erik Johnson jack Johnson even Hedman) was not very good the first few years.

I remember the hype for boumeester that’s not to say he’s bad but the hype was HUGE. I’m sure you remember.

However the hype for Dahlin has been more for a Dman then I can remember in a long, long time. I’m not saying all leaf fans but it’s a strange coincidence that the second buffalo won the draft lottery his value dropped significantly by people who don’t like the sabres.

I don’t understand it but I get it.

Not saying that’s what YOUR doing because your not bashing Dahlin but certain leaf fans in here have labelled him “just a prospect” and he is one but to go as far as saying “just one” is bit overboard.

We do need to see him in the NHL before were ready to even come close to rating him with the 1Cs. And even if he’s lights out this year he still would have to be beyond godly to be compared with them. BecUse afterall it would just be one season. So either way you slice it Dahlin even if he lives up won’t really be on there level for at least a couple years and that’s if he lives up to the potential. It’s all premature sure, but I think people are assuming it’s a safe bet he will be excellent.

I've said I'd take Matthews or Eichel over Dahlin since probably the summer of 2017 (when it started becoming a debate). I think all 3 guys are in the same tier as prospects (along with Jack Hughes) but behind McDavid, and you can sort them however you want. But, I don't think Dahlin has clearly the most upside. If I had to put odds on who was most likely to win a Hart or Lindsay award, I would probably put him 3rd, even at the time of their drafts. People play up the best defenceman stuff, but keep in mind, when you rank the best 20 players of all time (or at least since post-WW-II), a majority of that list would be forwards. The only guys to appear in top 10's are Orr and Harvey, with Bourque and Lidstrom somewhere between 10 and 25.

 

[LeafsNation75]

IHowever the hype for Dahlin has been more for a Dman then I can remember in a long, long time. I’m not saying all leaf fans but it’s a strange coincidence that the second buffalo won the draft lottery his value dropped significantly by people who don’t like the sabres.

I also think it's a coincidence that the second Toronto won the draft lottery in 2016 the opinion of Auston Matthews dropped significantly by the people who hate the Leafs.

 

[newfy]

right?

just stuck in a random 50pt 26yr old winger into a group of elite young talent for some reason.

I mean, Reinhart would also be the weakest player in the group, but at least he would make some sense being included.

Skinner might be the weakest player in the group but youre being a little too hard on him. By the age of 24 he had 3 30 goal seasons which is more than all the Leaf players in this poll combined, playing on bad teams.

Some people are talking about Matthews being a generational goal scorer but Skinners career high in goals is only 3 goals off of his.

This comparison is closer than you think. If its just Eichel Dahlin vs Matthews Reilly, the Sabres win this poll. Adding in a 50-60 point winger to compare to Torontos 65 point winger is what makes this a good poll

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I also think it's a coincidence that the second Toronto won the draft lottery in 2016 the opinion of Auston Matthews dropped significantly by the people who hate the Leafs.

That doesent change the fact it’s Halle omg with Dahlin. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I still ack liwedge Mathews as a top ten Center and nearly everyone in here thinks he’s a top player in the league already so I don’t even know if that’s true. If anything he’s more loved now. Or more appreciated because he’s gone above and beyond expectations and this had been evident in the why is Auston Matthews hated thread.

Remember Matthews was hyped as something special for sure but even bob McKenzie and others said he would go third oveeall in 2015 but what happened? He came in and while he hasn’t average more points per game in that time then eichel he has looked better scoring forty goals and breaking down doors with limited ice tiime and having way more team success.

So most people think he’s better then eichel and that’s fine in a lot of ways he has been, probably in most ways so far. But that’s not what this is about so don’t go there because I’ve beaten that subject to death let me go back to the point.

People are giving him his due.

But you know what? The only reason people get on Matthews case is the fact everything he does gets glorified. Jason sucker could score four goals in a game and the headlines would be Matthews two points lads leafs over habs. And three of the next four stories below it are about that and we all know why, for hits and clicks and the almighty dollar.

The best answer for why Matthews was “hated” in that thread IMo wAs when a guy said “because he’s so loved.”

It makes fans mad to see there
Team and star buried in the headlines for him.

Also this example might be best, the second round was starting in late April and the first ten minutes were about if there’s a rift between Matthews and Babcock. Even when the leafs were out of the playoffs the main focus and first ten mins of a 42 min show (time without commercials) were spent on this subject then John Shannon yelled “can we talk about the Stanley cup playoffs”


It’s thing like That which gets under people’s skin but of course if it’s not his fault. If Barkov or schedule or eichel or anyone else we’re in Matthews spot the same thing would be Happening for them. And it’s not the players fairly (Matthews) it happens it’s the fault of the media. Toronto based media voting him as the 4th best Center. I mean there’s a way of giving praise and there’s a way to give praise fairly, unfortunately the main networks haven’t done the latter.

I think Matthews will be a top five Center in and close as two years but to say he’s already the next bext Guy behind Crosby mcdavid and Mallon is a HUGR slap in the face to Cup winners who have beat him in the playoffs like Bergeron who essentially went PPG like Matthews last year and multiple time cup winners like Kopitar amongst a few others. I’m not ready to put mackinnon that high unlesss he does what he did last year again. If he does then he should be up this high too. The rest of the group is scattered But those are just a couple reasons why things are how they are. It’s not Austons fault.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Lol these hot takes. Jack is a cancer, Marner=Eichel, Eichel isn't a franchise player. It's all just so ridiculous. Eichel is an incredible player and we don't need to convince salty Leaf fans of that. He's a great kid who has matured a TON these last couple of years.

Matthews is a stud, Sabres fans love him as a player and respect his talent immensely. But so many of you guys just have it out for Eichel, it's pretty cute. See you on the ice...

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Atomos2]

Lol these hot takes. Jack is a cancer, Marner=Eichel, Eichel isn't a franchise player. It's all just so ridiculous. Eichel is an incredible player and we don't need to convince salty Leaf fans of that. He's a great kid who has matured a TON these last couple of years.

Matthews is a stud, Sabres fans love him as a player and respect his talent immensely. But so many of you guys just have it out for Eichel, it's pretty cute. See you on the ice...

Lol, yep. Every Leaf fan is wishing their team was more like the Sabres?

 

[Pyrophorus]

Skinner might be the weakest player in the group but youre being a little too hard on him. By the age of 24 he had 3 30 goal seasons which is more than all the Leaf players in this poll combined, playing on bad teams.

Ummm....ALL the players in this poll combined.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Also this example might be best, the second round was starting in late April and the first ten minutes were about if there’s a rift between Matthews and Babcock. Even when the leafs were out of the playoffs the main focus and first ten mins of a 42 min show (time without commercials) were spent on this subject then John Shannon yelled “can we talk about the Stanley cup playoffs”

From what I remember it was John Shannon was the only one who reported this rift between Matthews and Babcock, however it was to a Buffalo radio station. That's why at the time I didn't believe him because it was something Bob McKenzie or Pierre LeBrun didn't even bother to mention. Plus why would a Buffalo radio station even care about a Leafs related story? So that's why I didn't believe him and for him to yell can we talk about the playoffs, they were talking about it because he is the one who gave that story any life.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lol, yep. Every Leaf fan is wishing their team was more like the Sabres?

If anything it should be the other way around and the Sabres wished their team was more like the Leafs.

 

[Pyrophorus]

He absolutely, unequivocally, 100% is a better prospect than those two. Dahlin's "ceiling" is one of the best defenseman to ever play the game.

Now? At 18?
He could be great..but I still say it will take a few years.
Whatever happened to Defensmen not hitting their prime until much later?

 

[Pyrophorus]

From what I remember it was John Shannon was the only one who reported this rift between Matthews and Babcock, however it was to a Buffalo radio station. That's why at the time I didn't believe him because it was something Bob McKenzie or Pierre LeBrun didn't even bother to mention. Plus why would a Buffalo radio station even care about a Leafs related story? So that's why I didn't believe him and for him to yell can we talk about the playoffs, they were talking about it because he is the one who gave that story any life.

Why is this a story? The 70's Habs despised Bowman. I would love that kind of rift.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Matthews >Eichel
Marner >> Skinner
Rielly <<<<< Dahlin


Toronto trio loses on the gap between Rielly and Dahlin

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Now? At 18?
He could be great..but I still say it will take a few years.
Whatever happened to Defensmen not hitting their prime until much later?

RIGHT NOW Dahlin is already better than Rielly

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Dahlin isn't a better prospect than Matthews or Eichel were. He has a very high ceiling, but assuming Matthews hits his potential, you are talking about a Sakic. I don't think Dahlin's ceiling is significantly higher than that.

This is hilarious. Theres only two prospects in the last 20 years better than Dahlin. That's crosby and mcdavid. Matthews and Eichel aren't close

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews >Eichel
Marner >> Skinner
Rielly <<<<< Dahlin


Toronto trio loses on the gap between Rielly and Dahlin

how is the gap between Dahlin bigger than the gap between Marner and Skinner? Marner is more complete and outscored Skinner by 20 points. Dahlin might never get to that level over Rielly, let alone a way bigger gap

 

[93LEAFS]

This is hilarious. Theres only two prospects in the last 20 years better than Dahlin. That's crosby and mcdavid. Matthews and Eichel aren't close

No, there have been a couple. He's in that same tier with Matthews, Eichel, Tavares, and Stamkos. Just because he's the best defensive prospect in ages, doesn't mean he's better than a few of the center prospects not named Crosby or McDavid. Centers are generally the most impactful players at 5v5 in the league at driving play. Hence, why they disproportionately are the consistent winners of Hart and Lindsay trophies.

I'd also say Ovi and Malkin were at least in his tier as prospects. An argument can also be made for MacKinnon, Jones, and Hedman.

 

[LeafsNation75]

No, there have been a couple. He's in that same tier with Matthews, Eichel, Tavares, and Stamkos. Just because he's the best defensive prospect in ages, doesn't mean he's better than a few of the center prospects not named Crosby or McDavid. Centers are generally the most impactful players at 5v5 in the league at driving play. Hence, why they disproportionately are the consistent winners of Hart and Lindsay trophies.

I'd also say Ovi and Malkin were at least in his tier as prospects. An argument can also be made for MacKinnon, Jones, and Hedman.

I said this before and I will say it again. Right after being drafted 1st overall in 2006 and 2014, both Erik Johnson and Aaron Ekblad got the same hype as elite #1 Defenseman that Dalhin has been getting. I think it's fair to say both their careers did not turn out that way.