Matthews,Marner,Nylander Vs Eichel,Dahlin,Mittelstadt for the future?

[LeafsNation75]

What's really unfortunate for the Sabres is already having Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, and ROR in place and still experiencing last place finishes with point totals that are even worse than the 2015-2016 Leafs who didn't even have Matthews/Marner/Nylander in place.

Expecting Dahlin to get them from dead last to playoffs puts a monumental amount of pressure on him. I think people are making a huge mistake expecting Mittlestadt to be in the same conversation as the rest of the names - nothing is guaranteed with a prospect this uncertain.

The 2015-2016 Leafs finished last with 69 points.

The 2017-2018 Sabres finished last with 62 points.

It should also be said no one and not even Leafs fans predicted to make the playoffs in Matthews and Marner's rookie seasons. So if there are some people on here predicting the Sabres to make the playoffs because we are being told how generational Dahlin is, they will be in for a disappointment.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If I had more time I'd look up the lineup we had at one point after moving some guys early but before bringing up all of Nylander/Brown/Kapanen. I'm pretty sure Arcobello-Holland-Booth was our 2nd line at one point behind the powerhouse Komarov-Kadri-Parenteau line. Good thing we had Vezina Bernier in net.

How anyone can finish with worse GF/GA stats than that team is absolutely beyond me, half of that team was AHL level players and that's not even an exaggeration.

Here was all the information from the Leafs last game of the 2015-2016 when they clinched last place overall, so you can see exactly the players who were on their roster at the time.

Toronto Maple Leafs - New Jersey Devils - April 9th, 2016

Also when you mention David Booth he was on the Leafs the previous year during the 2014-2015 season. So he was not apart of their team when they finished last place 1 year later.

 

[IPS]

If I had more time I'd look up the lineup we had at one point after moving some guys early but before bringing up all of Nylander/Brown/Kapanen. I'm pretty sure Arcobello-Holland-Booth was our 2nd line at one point behind the powerhouse Komarov-Kadri-Parenteau line. Good thing we had Vezina Bernier in net.

How anyone can finish with worse GF/GA stats than that team is absolutely beyond me, half of that team was AHL level players and that's not even an exaggeration.

I've garnered some criticism for saying this before but I honestly think Eichel is a locker room cancer. The kid has always came off as a complete narcissist, criticizing players/coaching staff and even proclaiming himself to be better than McDavid going into the 2015 draft. Funny thing is he's one of the most lackadaisical players out there on some nights, good luck ever seeing him going battling for loose pucks.

Throw this onto him getting a monumental contract and you have a recipe for disaster. I don't think it's any coincidence seeing the Sabres exploring trades with ROR. I think he's asked for a trade behind the scenes because he's done with putting up with that kid's shit.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I've garnered some criticism for saying this before but I honestly think Eichel is a locker room cancer. The kid has always came off as a complete narcissist, criticizing players/coaching staff and even proclaiming himself to be better than McDavid going into the 2015 draft. Funny thing is he's one of the most lackadaisical players out there on some nights, good luck ever seeing him going battling for loose pucks.

Throw this onto him getting a monumental contract and you have a recipe for disaster. I don't think it's any coincidence seeing the Sabres exploring trades with ROR. I think he's asked for a trade behind the scenes because he's done with putting up with that kid's ****.

There was also that report after Byslma got fired that the Sabres were considering to hire Eichel's coach from Boston University just to make him happy. Funny thing is he was just hired as new coach for the Rangers.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not upset by these results at all. Pretty much what I would expect.

I just find it funny how hard you try to pretend, in thread after thread, poll after poll, year after year, that you're totally unbiased in your posting. Just finding different ways to go against the Leafs.

Anyway, keep on keepin on... Like I said, maybe this is the year Buffalo comes through for you

Could have fooled me. Your actions sure point to you being upset, and for what? For me voting with the 65% that prefer the Sabres core of Eichel, Dahlin, and Middlestadt. It's a poll asking for opinions. Really strange to read people whining about a result on an opinion based site since this is what most people come here for, opinions.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It's a poll asking for opinions. Really strange to read people whining about a result on an opinion based site since this is what most people come here for, opinions.

Personally I feel that's exactly what you are doing when people try to argue in favor of the Leafs and make it sound like our opinions don't matter. If you want to say Dahlin is generational that's your opinion, however don't get upset when others say that's wrong since it's what they think.

 

[missionAvs]

I really dont understand how people can give an edge to Dahlin over Matthews at this point. Averaging over 40g / 82 gp at just 20 years of age.

Like I mentioned in my post. I'm going purely off potential and according to scouts everywhere, Dahlin is the best defensive prospect in quite some time. Matthew's, as good as he is (franchise level talent IMO), doesn't hold that acumen with regards to forwards.

That said, potential doesn't really mean squat unless said prospect realizes it which we won't know for a very long time with these young players.

 

[nobody]

I'll look forward to bumping and laughing at this poll in two years time. Just to hear complete silence from all those who voted for the Buffalo trio. Same shit different day.

 

[bsu]

The one with the 1C and best defensive prospect over a bunch of wingers and 1c

 

[Snippit]

I've garnered some criticism for saying this before but I honestly think Eichel is a locker room cancer. The kid has always came off as a complete narcissist, criticizing players/coaching staff and even proclaiming himself to be better than McDavid going into the 2015 draft. Funny thing is he's one of the most lackadaisical players out there on some nights, good luck ever seeing him going battling for loose pucks.

Throw this onto him getting a monumental contract and you have a recipe for disaster. I don't think it's any coincidence seeing the Sabres exploring trades with ROR. I think he's asked for a trade behind the scenes because he's done with putting up with that kid's ****.

This is the kind of low quality post I’ve come to expect from you.

 

[Apotheosis]

Matthews > Eichel
Dahlin > Marner
Nylander >> Mittelstadt

This is the Leafs.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Could have fooled me. Your actions sure point to you being upset, and for what? For me voting with the 65% that prefer the Sabres core of Eichel, Dahlin, and Middlestadt. It's a poll asking for opinions. Really strange to read people whining about a result on an opinion based site since this is what most people come here for, opinions.

Yeah, yeah, it's a one-off. Totally just this thread. My mistake. You don't have a history

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Like I mentioned in my post. I'm going purely off potential and according to scouts everywhere, Dahlin is the best defensive prospect in quite some time. Matthew's, as good as he is (franchise level talent IMO), doesn't hold that acumen with regards to forwards.

That said, potential doesn't really mean squat unless said prospect realizes it which we won't know for a very long time with these young players.

i respect your opinion, however strongly disagree. I'm taking the proven #1C thats lead the NHL in even strength goals per game since he was drafted over the Swedish hockey league player with 20p in 41gp

 

[missionAvs]

i respect your opinion, however strongly disagree. I'm taking the proven #1C thats lead the NHL in even strength goals per game since he was drafted over the Swedish hockey league player with 20p in 41gp

Fair enough. It might turn out that Matthew's proves to be better than Dahlin but I guess we'll see in due time! If the scouts are correct about Dahlin, he might very well turn into the best defenseman in the league.

The poll asked for future so I based it just on potential which might not happen for any of these players haha. They're still so young so we won't know for a looooong time.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Fair enough. It might turn out that Matthew's proves to be better than Dahlin but I guess we'll see in due time! If the scouts are correct about Dahlin, he might very well turn into the best defenseman in the league.

The poll asked for future so I based it just on potential which might not happen for any of these players haha. They're still so young so we won't know for a looooong time.

The thing is, Matthews is better than Dhalin, Just because Dhalin's draft scouting report was better then Matthews doesnt mean you should turn a blind eye to what Matthews has actually accomplished. But yes if we are basing this poll on each players draft scouting report and draft potential then your logic would be correct. No one ever saw Erik Karlsson becoming the best defenseman in the league, yet he is.

 

[Laineux]

Fair enough. It might turn out that Matthew's proves to be better than Dahlin but I guess we'll see in due time! If the scouts are correct about Dahlin, he might very well turn into the best defenseman in the league.

Best defenseman in the league doesn't mean close to the best player in the world though. Not sure if Doughty, Karlsson or Hedman is considered the best defenceman in the world but how many ranks those players in their top 5 players? Could make a convincing case that top 5 are all centers.

 

[La Masse]

So the trio thats winning the poll so far has two players who have proved absolutely nothing and the other we still have no idea what his ceiling is .... Eummm interesting.

Sabres fan better hope and pray that Dahlin becomes a stud and Mittlestadt is a at least a 60 point winger for this to be even comparable

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So the trio thats winning the poll so far has two players who have proved absolutely nothing and the other we still have no idea what his ceiling is .... Eummm interesting.

Sabres fan better hope and pray that Dahlin becomes a stud and Mittlestadt is a at least a 60 point winger for this to be even comparable

I think people see the potential in that Eichel despite having absolutely nothing to work with in Buffalo, yet he still has 121 in the last 128 games(2 season sample) with the combination of Dahlin, as a stud defender where I have not so anticipated since Doughty and Hedman were drafted as the main points of choosing The Buffalo core.

The Leafs core is good, but there are knocks against them. Perhaps they are more established, and people know what they are getting. But the knocks come off a bad playoff where Matthews was invisible and Nylander looking scared to play against the Bruins. Marner had a good playoffs, but he was inconsistent in the regular season.

So really, it would not take much for the Sabres trio to look better than the Leafs trio once time passes, and reasonable expectations for Eichel and Dahlin are met. It's not a hail mary projection to pick them.

 

[La Masse]

I think people see the potential in that Eichel despite having absolutely nothing to work with in Buffalo, yet he still has 121 in the last 128 games(2 season sample) with the combination of Dahlin, as a stud defender where I have not so anticipated since Doughty and Hedman were drafted as the main points of choosing The Buffalo core.

The Leafs core is good, but there are knocks against them. Perhaps they are more established, and people know what they are getting. But the knocks come off a bad playoff where Matthews was invisible and Nylander looking scared to play against the Bruins. Marner had a good playoffs, but he was inconsistent in the regular season.

So really, it would not take much for the Sabres trio to look better than the Leafs trio once time passes, and reasonable expectations for Eichel and Dahlin are met. It's not a hail mary projection to pick them.

The Leafs trio still has a lot of room to grow as well. I guess only time will tell

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The Leafs trio still has a lot of room to grow as well. I guess only time will tell

Not saying they don't. But right now, the question has to asked will Nylander ever be tough enough to play in the playoffs. And the one big thing the Sabres have in their trio is they have a #1 Franchise C with a #1 Franchise D combination the Leafs do not have. That's a big factor to the 65% that voted for them I would think.

 

[Liminality]

First off, they're all really good young players. (I'm assuming Dahlin will be because of highly touted he is)
I think it's hard to tell just how good all of these guys are going to be in the future. You're trying to account player development into this which I think the Leafs and Babcock are doing a fine job of so far.

If Buffalo can develop these guys properly then they're going to be in a very good place for the future.

Going by what I've heard so far maybe the players stack up like this.

Dahlin
Matthews
Eichel
Marner
Nylander
Mittlestadt

Don't think there's a wrong answer.

 

[La Masse]

Not saying they don't. But right now, the question has to asked will Nylander ever be tough enough to play in the playoffs. And the one big thing the Sabres have in their trio is they have a #1 Franchise C with a #1 Franchise D combination the Leafs do not have. That's a big factor to the 65% that voted for them I would think.

Thats if Eichel stays healthy enough to prove he’s a legimate #1 C( I personnally think he is)

 

[missionAvs]

The thing is, Matthews is better than Dhalin, Just because Dhalin's draft scouting report was better then Matthews doesnt mean you should turn a blind eye to what Matthews has actually accomplished. But yes if we are basing this poll on each players draft scouting report and draft potential then your logic would be correct. No one ever saw Erik Karlsson becoming the best defenseman in the league, yet he is.

Well the poll asked which trio to take going forwards. I think you must have read my greater than signs somehow implying the players current skill set or performance. I did not. I literally based all of that on where I believe those players will end up respective to one another. For example, I had Dahlin >= Matthew's implying that that's where I see them long term.

Whether or not you agree with that is fine but going off what we've seen, Dahlin looks absolutely special in a way approaching McJesus category IMO. We'll see through, it could very well be a toss up which is why I have it pretty close between them.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Not saying they don't. But right now, the question has to asked will Nylander ever be tough enough to play in the playoffs. And the one big thing the Sabres have in their trio is they have a #1 Franchise C with a #1 Franchise D combination the Leafs do not have. That's a big factor to the 65% that voted for them I would think.

I voted for the Sabres trio for these reasons with the exception of pointing out lack of playoff success. Im not sure this can be used as a barometer at all seeing Buffalo has yet to make the playoffs. For me it is understandable seeing young inexperienced players struggle against a team that has as much post season experience as the Bruins do.

 

[missionAvs]

Best defenseman in the league doesn't mean close to the best player in the world though. Not sure if Doughty, Karlsson or Hedman is considered the best defenceman in the world but how many ranks those players in their top 5 players? Could make a convincing case that top 5 are all centers.

I'm sorry but for a time, Karlsson was most definitely a top 5 player and many had him as a top 3. I still have him in the top 5 even after his down year which was on an abysmal Sens squad. Also being best defenseman doesn't mean being best player but it definitely puts you on the right track lol.