Proposal: Matt Martin for a cap-dump Defenceman

[pheasant]

Hi all. Just had a couple discussions on the trade board recently about Toronto making a trade for s defenceman, and thought I would throw out a suggestion on here.

What if the Leafs find an overpaid defenceman, and deal Matt Martin for him? We take on a bit of a cap dump, but in the form of someone who can play and contribute at our biggest position of need. I suppose it would work a lot like the Phaneuf to LA Kings deal. They move out a bad contract in Gaborik, and get a guy who can help the team. Dion still has flaws, and isn't exactly worth what LA now has to pay him, but it's a net gain because they paid less than nothing and he can help them win. A few suggestions:

One name that came up was Johnny Boychuk from NYI, and an Islanders fan even suggested some salary retention (1.25M per year). Boychuk is 34, and signed for 4 more years. But he plays 20 minutes a night, is defensively responsible, and right handed. With retention he would cost under 5M cap-hit.

Another is Zach Bogosian. He makes 5.1 mill, and is often injured. But the contract is only 2 years, same as Martin. So sending out MM's 2.5 means we don't add much to the cap at all. Again, he's a right handed blueliner who plays about 20 minutes a game. I personally think he would do well under Babcock.

Other names like Paul Martin spring to mind. Maybe Brendan Smith, if the Rangers retain a lot and we hire him a personal trainer.

Anyway, what do you think of the idea? Specifically Boychuk an/or Bogosian? We lose Martin, who has no role, gain a right side defenceman that we badly need, and don't have to overspend in trade or free agency.

Feel free to add any other blueliners you think we could snag ths way.

Click to read more...

 

[Mugzy97]

It'll be a real tough sell to convince a team to take a 4th line tough guy who doesn't play every night for any defenseman. If we need cap space in the 2019-20 season I'd be selling Martin for the first offer that came across my desk next offseason.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Cap space is way more important to the Leafs than some aging defenseman

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Teams still value tough guys. Martin may be overpaid, but he's better than Reaves, and look at how much he's gone for in trades. Maybe we have to retain or take back a cap dump, but he's not a useless player who does not have value. If we retain 50%, he makes about the same amount as Reaves, and that would make him more valuable than him too.

 

[pheasant]

It'll be a real tough sell to convince a team to take a 4th line tough guy who doesn't play every night for any defenseman. If we need cap space in the 2019-20 season I'd be selling Martin for the first offer that came across my desk next offseason.

Teams still value tough guys. Martin may be overpaid, but he's better than Reaves, and look at how much he's gone for in trades. Maybe we have to retain or take back a cap dump, but he's not a useless player who does not have value. If we retain 50%, he makes about the same amount as Reaves, and that would make him more valuable than him too.

Well the value of Martin is clearly debatable. But the point isn't to try and get him off the team. It's to add a right side defenceman without having to pay Carlson 7 million a year, overpay Greg Pateryn as a UFA, or trade Nylander for a blueliner off Carolina.

Why not sell a guy we have sitting in the press box for someone who can fill a big need on the ice?

 

[Spirit of 67]

Unless the D man still has a bit of tread on the tires, has only a year left and is being moved for cap reasons and/or to open a spot for someone pushing up from below, I don't see why we'd want it.

Simply giving him away is about the best option.

 

[Mugzy97]

Well the value of Martin is clearly debatable. But the point isn't to try and get him off the team. It's to add a right side defenceman without having to pay Carlson 7 million a year, overpay Greg Pateryn as a UFA, or trade Nylander for a blueliner off Carolina.

Why not sell a guy we have sitting in the press box for someone who can fill a big need on the ice?

I think we need a top pairing RD, we don't need to screw around with anything less since we have Hainsey, Zaitsev, Carrick, Holl, Liljegren. Matt Martin is not the piece that gets us what we need.

 

[ToneDog]

Unless we sign a big fish on July 1st there is no need to dump Martin. We may not need him as much in the playoffs but he can be useful during an 82 game regular season.

 

[Buds17]

If the intention is to swap iffy contracts, I'd hope to look for a player with similar money and term to what Martin has left on his contract, if possible. If Martin and Bogosian are going to miss their share of games (scratch/injury), I'd stay with the better cap hit in Martin. The risk with Boychuk is the term. Is that still an upgrade for the two years after the Martin contract would run out?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It would make more sense with someone like Hagelin or Boedker. Pittsburgh loses 1.5 mill in cap space this year, but has to take on 2.5 mill next year. San Jose would simply cut cap by going from Martin to Boedker. If those teams want more physicality for their lineups, it may make sense for them to have him over those guys.

We need a top 9 winger.

 

[Cams]

Unless the guy coming in is going to play and have some toughness (which the Leafs without Martin have ABSOLUTELY NONE), then why bother?

 

[Menzinger]

I’m hoping they can find a team to take him for free. After July 1st bonus, his real salary is pretty low.

Edit:

That said I’d be open to the idea of taking on an overpaid defense men, though would prefer they would have an expiring contract.

 

[Battle Lin]

you probably gotta give up a 3rd or 2nd to some young team with cap space and would not mind a tough guy for their young kids, some sort of trade like that

2.5 is decent cap space, if it means you can squeeze in a big signing, you gotta look to move martin even at a high cost

 

[justafan22]

I'd rather trade him after his bonus is paid + a 4th (they have 2 in 2019) for like a 6th and be done with it.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The only scenario I could see here would be moving Martin for a one year albatross, along with a significant asset coming back our way. That would be one way to use all the cap space for next season while saving some on the next, and gaining an asset at the same time.

Under no circumstances are we taking on more salary for more than one year though. We're approaching a bottleneck, and we need to make sure we get through it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Matt Martin for Paul Martin as a basis of a trade might be something to look at if the Sharks want to shed some immediate cap space after signing Thornton, Hertl and Tierney.

Not much out there other than that. I do feel like Martin could fetch a mid round 2019 pick though. I've seen a lot worst players fetch around that all the time.

 

[The Iceman]

Looks to me like NYI have 13 players signed for next season including Johnny B. No cap issues at all. I would far rather trade Martin and a 4th for a bag of pucks. Salary dump. Lou likes Martin too. Let NYI keep their oft injured 34 year old D for 3 more seasons at $6 mill/year.
YUCK

 

[The Iceman]

It would make more sense with someone like Hagelin or Boedker. Pittsburgh loses 1.5 mill in cap space this year, but has to take on 2.5 mill next year. San Jose would simply cut cap by going from Martin to Boedker. If those teams want more physicality for their lineups, it may make sense for them to have him over those guys.

We need a top 9 winger.

We are set for wingers. No need to get another back.

 

[PuckMagi]

We only have 2 more years of his contract. We could dump it if we really needed to by giving up some type of positive value asset to offset his negative value. But Martin's value I don't think is negative by all that much. Only 2 years at 2.5 million. Trading him for someone else's cap dump potentially just makes the situation worse. Why trade for someone who is paid more money for a longer term? Seems like we would be trading a bad contract for an even worse contract.

We have much better wingers than Martin for sure... but I don't think that Martin is a terrible hockey player. He might even look good if we had a 4th line that had a lot of size and grit. I thought he looked better playing with Boyle. I think it can be tough on other teams to have to go up against 3 huge forwards on one line.

We may not end up being quite so deep on wingers this year depending on what happens this off-season. He may actually be able to crack the lineup as a 4th line winger. He could be competing for a spot with guys like Grundstrom.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

After seeing how well Reeves has done in his role with Vegas, maybe Martin does have a good playing value in the NHL, maybe even the Leafs
Martin played a good role with the Leafs but suddenly didn't.
Having Martin on the team doesn't really affect the cap much so there is no really benefit cap dumping him If Martin is on the team, he has to be a useful cog and get playing time.
I'm one that thinks Babcock is a poor game management coach. Maybe Marlie coach Keefe is hired to be behind the bench for the 82 games. Have Babcock stay home on game day but he run the practices.

 

[drewjenks]

Hi all. Just had a couple discussions on the trade board recently about Toronto making a trade for s defenceman, and thought I would throw out a suggestion on here.

What if the Leafs find an overpaid defenceman, and deal Matt Martin for him? We take on a bit of a cap dump, but in the form of someone who can play and contribute at our biggest position of need. I suppose it would work a lot like the Phaneuf to LA Kings deal. They move out a bad contract in Gaborik, and get a guy who can help the team. Dion still has flaws, and isn't exactly worth what LA now has to pay him, but it's a net gain because they paid less than nothing and he can help them win. A few suggestions:

One name that came up was Johnny Boychuk from NYI, and an Islanders fan even suggested some salary retention (1.25M per year). Boychuk is 34, and signed for 4 more years. But he plays 20 minutes a night, is defensively responsible, and right handed. With retention he would cost under 5M cap-hit.

Another is Zach Bogosian. He makes 5.1 mill, and is often injured. But the contract is only 2 years, same as Martin. So sending out MM's 2.5 means we don't add much to the cap at all. Again, he's a right handed blueliner who plays about 20 minutes a game. I personally think he would do well under Babcock.

Other names like Paul Martin spring to mind. Maybe Brendan Smith, if the Rangers retain a lot and we hire him a personal trainer.

Anyway, what do you think of the idea? Specifically Boychuk an/or Bogosian? We lose Martin, who has no role, gain a right side defenceman that we badly need, and don't have to overspend in trade or free agency.

Feel free to add any other blueliners you think we could snag ths way.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT MATT MARTIN:


1) He's getting a $1,500,000 signing bonus this summer (the Leafs will pay).

2) Once that's paid, he only makes $2,500,000 over his final 2 seasons.

3) His salary will average $1,250,000 per season - despite his hit cap hit of $2,500,000.

4) There are teams who never spend to the cap - so his cap hit is irrelevant to them.

5) All they care about is his actual salary - which is $1,250,000 x 2 years.

6) Most of these low spending teams have a young core (Arizona, Carolina, etc).

7) Martin is known as a good leader & a good example for young players.

8) One of these teams will happily pay a mid to late pick for Martin's positive example.

9) We won't have to give up extra assets just to "dump" him.


SIDE-NOTE:


- Martin's production (33:17) was the 8th best of all Leaf forwards this season.

- That means he produced 1 point for every 33:17 mins of ice time this season.

- He came in 197th place among NHL forwards (6th place on an average NHL team).

- He beat Zach Hyman (35:35) while playing with 4th liners all year.

- Given that he can also fight & mentor - it won't be hard to "dump" him at $1,250,000.

 

[Brobust]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to allow any sort of bad defenceman on the roster. Babcock might play him just for PK reasons.

At least with Martin he seems to have figured out that there are better options.

 

[thewave]

Martin isn't bad, it's Babcock's usage of him. 5mins is pointless and so I thought him a waste and time to get rid of him. I was more pro Martin than Moore but more pro Leivo than Martin.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I really do think he's tradeable once we pay his bonus.

 

[deletethis]

Strange how both teams in the Finals can find a way to use similar players to Matt Martin in their lineups.

Since the NHL is a copycat league, there will absolutely be trade value for Matt Martin from teams trying to emulate the formula used by both of the league finalists. The only question is whether the Leafs are willing to retain in order to increase Martin's market value.

BTW, I'd like it if Martin stayed and was used. It's better for a team to be some small part lion/mostly antelope instead of 100% antelope.

I forgot to address the thread premise: It's a bad idea. You're suggesting that he has a negative value. I think it's the opposite. After his July 1st bonus is paid, the Leafs will only owe Matt Martin $2.5M in total spread over the next 2 seasons. A tough guy who can play a bit for an average of $1.25M in salary ($2.5M in cap hit) per season is a great price for a team that doesn't spend to the full cap.