Injury Report: Matt Hunwick Shut Down For Season - Sports Hernia - Surgery Required

Mess

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I hope these injuries are legit. I'm all for the tank, but if there is funny business going on with these players, I'd be pretty disgusted at the organization.

Forcing Hunwick into having unnecessary surgery seems a bit extreme to open up a roster spot, so I'm going to believe this injury is authentic. ;)
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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Marincin has troublesome decision making and isn't very good at handling the puck, but he can deliver accurate and crisp passes and has the best stick work on the team, as well as good cap control. His reach allows him to contain opponents, something he actually uses rather well.

I agree that Marincin can't hockey. When a guy "looks lost on the ice" and "makes multiple bad plays that stand out", they usually don't get a second look. They suck. I find analytics interesting, but in this case there is no point in even looking at them IMO.

When you have two good hockey players and you are comparing them with analytics = interesting.
When you have a visibly bad hockey player, trying to justify him not being so bad using analytics = Waste of time.

So you are basically saying that you only care about statistics when it confirms what you already believe?
 
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mcleex

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Jul 3, 2009
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Maybe these guys can't handle the new coaching staff's demanding practises/training

It is only the old guys getting injured, none of the young guys
 

LeafsNation149

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Feb 4, 2013
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Plays die with Hunwick.

This phenom with the -17, 70 some odd shots on net with a 2.7% shooting % and 10 points while playing the time he does. Sign me up baby!

Plays explode into Oblivion on Mari's stick...

This super phenom tank commander has a beautiful 40 some odd shots on net and a 0% shooting percentage and... hold on... 2 massive points all season. He is only a -1 though if anyone even cares.

Adding...

Connor Carrick has 2pts 1 on the PP. 8 games played and is a -2.


Were you expecting Hunwick to be a top pairing Dman at the price of 1.1 million? Yea right. He's being played against the Crosby's and Stamkos, no crap he's going to get a lot of shots against.

If Hunwick was playing more sheltered minutes he would look a lot better, him and his stats. Maybe 18ish minutes
 

Ovate

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Dec 17, 2014
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I agree that Marincin can't hockey. When a guy "looks lost on the ice" and "makes multiple bad plays that stand out", they usually don't get a second look. They suck. I find analytics interesting, but in this case there is no point in even looking at them IMO.

When you have two good hockey players and you are comparing them with analytics = interesting.
When you have a visibly bad hockey player, trying to justify him not being so bad using analytics = Waste of time.

I see. Analytics are useful, but only when they confirm the viewpoints you already had. Sadly, I see this intepretation all too commonly.

Yes, current analytics have many flaws. But if you can't address those flaws and objectively argue when they should and shouldn't apply, you can't choose to use them when they support you and call a waste of time when they don't.
 

12345678910

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Jan 3, 2012
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The Hunwick hate is absurd. I question anyone's sanity who actually thinks Marty Marincin is a better player. He's playing top pairing minutes against top flight competition. Of course his numbers aren't going to be too pretty. He's a legitimate NHL defenseman though, something I can't say for Marty.
 

Nithoniniel

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Were you expecting Hunwick to be a top pairing Dman at the price of 1.1 million? Yea right. He's being played against the Crosby's and Stamkos, no crap he's going to get a lot of shots against.

If Hunwick was playing more sheltered minutes he would look a lot better, him and his stats. Maybe 18ish minutes

These are numbers based on a whole season. In samples of that size, difference in competition isn't all that big. In general, if Hunwick played a little bit less against better competition, with a few minutes less with fewer defensive zone starts, he'd have a bit better stats. He likely wouldn't jump up the list and be one of our best performers, though it's possible he's an exception.
 

Kurtz

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These are numbers based on a whole season. In samples of that size, difference in competition isn't all that big.

Perhaps you have data to back this up, but this doesn't make sense intuitively. Either Babcock uses our top defensive pairing against top lines, or he does not. I believe he does.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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Were you expecting Hunwick to be a top pairing Dman at the price of 1.1 million? Yea right. He's being played against the Crosby's and Stamkos, no crap he's going to get a lot of shots against.

If Hunwick was playing more sheltered minutes he would look a lot better, him and his stats. Maybe 18ish minutes

I understand that.

TBH I am just thinking Connor Carrick should be given an opportunity to try his hand against stiffer competition ASAP.

I have a good feeling about the guy. I really like that release and feel it could be an asset. The rest of his play hasn't been shabby either.
 

Nithoniniel

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Perhaps you have data to back this up, but this doesn't make sense intuitively. Either Babcock uses our top defensive pairing against top lines, or he does not. I believe he does.

Well just look at pretty much any data that quantifies competition, and you'll see that you're dealing with small differences.

And it makes perfect sense. Sure Babcock wants Hunwick and Rielly out against the top units, but the game is played a lot on the fly and you can't exercise perfect control over this. Hunwick and Rielly might jump on and shortly after the opposing third line comes on. Then there are other factors in play such as which pairing is fresh, and taking the other pairings preferred match up into account. Furthermore, many teams spread out their offense so matching up against the second line isn't all that much easier than facing the first line. And then you have away games, where the opposing coach might actively trying to get the completely opposite matchups. Lots of factors that influence how good competition the pairings actually end up facing.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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These are numbers based on a whole season. In samples of that size, difference in competition isn't all that big. In general, if Hunwick played a little bit less against better competition, with a few minutes less with fewer defensive zone starts, he'd have a bit better stats. He likely wouldn't jump up the list and be one of our best performers, though it's possible he's an exception.

Alright, so I'm going to break this argument wide open with a couple of numbers...QOC and Zone Starts.

QOC (quality of competition based on opponent's CORSI)

Hunwick: 1.835
Rielly: 1.513
Dion: 0.445
Jake: 0.145
Polak: -0.961
Marincin: -1.035
Corrado: -1.079

Offensive Zone starts:

Corrado: 68.8%
Marincin: 55.7%
Jake: 53.3%
Dion: 53.1%
Polak: 48.1%
Morgan: 45.8%
Hunwick: 43.1%


There we go. So not only do Hunwick and Morgan (but especially Hunwick) play against statistically the best opponents, they're also the ones on the ice on defensive faceoffs. Meanwhile, Marincin (and Corrado) appear to be playing against by far the weakest opposition lines AND the majority of their starts are in the offensive zone.

I hope that's enough to explain why Marincin's shot supression numbers are unreliable. Most of his shifts start in the opponent's zone against their 3rd and 4th lines.

These stats also show how much weight Hunwick has carried for this team this year...perhaps that's how he got that hernia.

edit: including link for data source: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...13+14+15+16+63+67+57+58+59+60+61+62+64+65+66#

Also, perhaps I should have used Rel Corsi rather than Corsi for comparison, but it wouldn't have changed the conclusion other than to make the discrepancy between Marincin and our 1st pairing even larger than straight Corsi.
 
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ShameOnYouZidlicky

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Jun 4, 2010
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Forcing Hunwick into having unnecessary surgery seems a bit extreme to open up a roster spot, so I'm going to believe this injury is authentic. ;)

Yes Hunwick's is probably legit, so bad example. But where are Lupul, Bozak, Parenteau? It's great to see the kids and to move closer to Matthews, but I'd feel weird if I knew that there were healthy players sitting for the tank.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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Alright, so I'm going to break this argument wide open with a couple of numbers...QOC and Zone Starts.

QOC (quality of competition based on opponent's CORSI)

Hunwick: 1.835
Rielly: 1.513
Dion: 0.445
Jake: 0.145
Polak: -0.961
Marincin: -1.035
Corrado: -1.079

Offensive Zone starts:

Corrado: 68.8%
Marincin: 55.7%
Jake: 53.3%
Dion: 53.1%
Polak: 48.1%
Morgan: 45.8%
Hunwick: 43.1%


There we go. So not only do Hunwick and Morgan (but especially Hunwick) play against statistically the best opponents, they're also the ones on the ice on defensive faceoffs. Meanwhile, Marincin (and Corrado) appear to be playing against by far the weakest opposition lines AND the majority of their starts are in the offensive zone.

I hope that's enough to explain why Marincin's shot supression numbers are unreliable. Most of his shifts start in the opponent's zone against their 3rd and 4th lines.

These stats also show how much weight Hunwick has carried for this team this year...perhaps that's how he got that hernia.

edit: including link for data source: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...13+14+15+16+63+67+57+58+59+60+61+62+64+65+66#

Also, perhaps I should have used Rel Corsi rather than Corsi for comparison, but it wouldn't have changed the conclusion other than to make the discrepancy between Marincin and our 1st pairing even larger than straight Corsi.

Yes you should have used REL... but if you did Vs. the league it would be suggested that Hunwick is the... 5th best in the NHL...
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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Yes you should have used REL... but if you did Vs. the league it would be suggested that Hunwick is the... 5th best in the NHL...

Not 5th best, but faces the 5th hardest competition in the league. I can absolutely believe that. It again emphasizes how much weight he's carried for us this year.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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Yes Hunwick's is probably legit, so bad example. But where are Lupul, Bozak, Parenteau? It's great to see the kids and to move closer to Matthews, but I'd feel weird if I knew that there were healthy players sitting for the tank.

Lupul and Hunwick both had surgeries to end their year. Bozak had a concussion...those are 100% unpredictable and have been known to cause a player to miss an entire year. Parentau will be back this week.

There's nothing funny going on with those guys. Robidas and Cowen on the other hand...
 

ShameOnYouZidlicky

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
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Lupul and Hunwick both had surgeries to end their year. Bozak had a concussion...those are 100% unpredictable and have been known to cause a player to miss an entire year. Parentau will be back this week.

There's nothing funny going on with those guys. Robidas and Cowen on the other hand...

I'll take your word for it.

The Robidas situation was a little strange although you can make the argument that he just wasn't good enough to make the team anyways

The Cowen move is understandable.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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CorsiOn? Says right there it's shot differential. As I'd explained, this is due to the fact that Marincin starts the majority of his shifts in the offensive zone against the opponent's weakest lines, whereas Hunwick starts the majority of his shifts in the defensive zone and against the top lines of the opposition.

I hope that was your question.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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CorsiOn? Says right there it's shot differential. As I'd explained, this is due to the fact that Marincin starts the majority of his shifts in the offensive zone against the opponent's weakest lines, whereas Hunwick starts the majority of his shifts in the defensive zone and against the top lines of the opposition.

I hope that was your question.

Yes. So when it comes down to it considering how drastic the differential is there. He or they are not doing a very good job at what the do. I guess that explains how Rielly and Hunny are -15 or more.
 

TNCHL

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Marincin has troublesome decision making and isn't very good at handling the puck, but he can deliver accurate and crisp passes and has the best stick work on the team, as well as good cap control. His reach allows him to contain opponents, something he actually uses rather well.



So you are basically saying that you only care about statistics when it confirms what you already believe?

Marincin is a horrible passer, worst on the team besides hunwick.
 

Lebanese Leaf

Registered User
Sep 19, 2009
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Who do I think should be called up...

Where is the Loov?

I will always Loov you.

My Loov.

California Loov.

Summer Loov.

I can go all day...
 

crump

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Yes Hunwick's is probably legit, so bad example. But where are Lupul, Bozak, Parenteau? It's great to see the kids and to move closer to Matthews, but I'd feel weird if I knew that there were healthy players sitting for the tank.

In a normal year, players would play through nagging injuries that didn't require time off. When something was on the line (a playoff position, players contract year, coaches job) there is always a reason to play through an injury. This season there is no reason, if someone has an injury, they get healthy...100% healthy and that can take a long time. ;)
 

burpsalot

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Feb 12, 2015
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In a normal year, players would play through nagging injuries that didn't require time off. When something was on the line (a playoff position, players contract year, coaches job) there is always a reason to play through an injury. This season there is no reason, if someone has an injury, they get healthy...100% healthy and that can take a long time. ;)

Polka was shut down the same way last year. A hernia is quite debilitating, you don't realize how much so, until you have surgery & recover, then you realize the difference. Might as well have the surgery now so you can properly prepare for next season & be ready to go.
 

Pholus

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May 23, 2014
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Yes Hunwick's is probably legit, so bad example. But where are Lupul, Bozak, Parenteau? It's great to see the kids and to move closer to Matthews, but I'd feel weird if I knew that there were healthy players sitting for the tank.

Wow, this has got to be the first time I have seen someone question whether Joffrey "Glass Man" Lupul is actually hurt. :laugh:
 

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