These polls and threads ripping into players and coaching decisions are ridiculous and need to stop. Maurice and his staff fielded a winning team that went second in the league this year, meaning their strategy and coaching calls work, including when to play and not play Hendricks. The guy is a natural born leader and you don't win without that. Perhaps as fans we need to accept the fact that they know what they are doing and it is working.
Matt Hendricks poll
- Thread starter Mud Turtle
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nobody important
the pessimist returns
Or you could just stop reading them while the rest of us enjoy expressing our opinions in spirited debate. There is the positivity thread as a place of sanctuary. I've tried sneaking in there a couple of times, but the mods always find me and...
The Blue Baron
Registered User
No, they really don't. I may not personally agree with all of them, but they're not breaking site rules, and drive discussion on a discussion forum. Posters are free to choose to ignore threads that they're not enamored with.
Don't be silly! If hfjets ran the jets, they'd go 82-0 and win every game 10-0! Anyone on here could manage/coach a team to 114 points each year. I mean, every team does it.
Nashville has obviously better everything. How else would they be able to get to the exact same record in this series?!
Dayofthedogs
Bettman's hammer
WPGChief
Registered User
You think Nashville fans weren't going nuts when they heard Hartnell was going in for Fiala? Fans are allowed to criticize decisions we believe to be suboptimal, especially when we have background as to why we believe they are that way. Deferring to someone with authority is a horrible cop-out and proves nothing. Remind me again why Vegas is a 100+ point team and one win away from the finals if everyone they picked in the expansion draft was deemed not worthy of protection (either within the rules of the draft or through trades)? Must have been all that leadership, I guess.
Dayofthedogs
Bettman's hammer
Sometimes deferring to authority isn't a horrible cop out move.
You know like when I need some plumbing done I defer to a plumber.
Questioning ones decisions is fine and great but believing that you have the correct answer as opposed to men who have been in the industry full time all their lives and careers die on the decisions they make is extremely egotistical. Especially when you don't have nearly as much information as they do.
Having seen you around ragging on Tanev lately?
WPGChief
Registered User
I wish coaches and GMs would take a course and have to be tested on what Corsi and the such actually means instead of all these incorrect narratives being spouted off of it. It's a shame there's not enough time to go through 500+ publications dating back to the early 2000s and figure out what has evolved off of what, but I encourage you to do so if you're interested.
Luckily, I can point to how Tanev performed last season versus this season:
Personally, I am happy that Tanev has grown into better than he was last season in terms of shot metrics. Typically you don't get that with players going from age 25 to 26. Still, a -15 to +11 goals on metric isn't something to be totally trusted. If you wanted my honest opinion, I think Tanev's real talent lies somewhere in the middle of these two drastically different seasons. If anything, the only consistent thing between these two seasons is that Tanev draws a ton of penalties (which is a good thing). I also think playing with the likes of Copp, Armia, and Lowry vs Thorburn, Burmistrov, and Petan is more of a complement to what he brings to the game.
EDIT: I've argued these lineup decisions before in terms of what optimal lineups bring to the table in terms of xGF.
And I sincerely hope you don't believe Tanev had a good 2016-17 season - because that clearly wasn't the case. Arguably, there's not much to use from to predict that all the sudden he would post a 8-goal season (of which 3 came as a hat-trick) versus the 2-goals he had last season, other than "he shoots a lot".
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Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
- Nov 14, 2014
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You know, you provide a lot of good info here. There is a lot to dig into with this post but starting it off by worshipping at the alter of Corsi doesn't do much. Corsi has it's uses and gives us some usefull information, but far too many people use it as the ultimate litmus test to make roster decsions. It is not that.I wish coaches and GMs would take a course and have to be tested on what Corsi and the such actually means instead of all these incorrect narratives being spouted off of it. It's a shame there's not enough time to go through 500+ publications dating back to the early 2000s and figure out what has evolved off of what, but I encourage you to do so if you're interested.
Luckily, I can point to how Tanev performed last season versus this season:
Personally, I am happy that Tanev has grown into better than he was last season in terms of shot metrics. Typically you don't get that with players going from age 25 to 26. Still, a -15 to +11 goals on metric isn't something to be totally trusted. If you wanted my honest opinion, I think Tanev's real talent lies somewhere in the middle of these two drastically different seasons. If anything, the only consistent thing between these two seasons is that Tanev draws a ton of penalties (which is a good thing). I also think playing with the likes of Copp, Armia, and Lowry vs Thorburn, Burmistrov, and Petan is more of a complement to what he brings to the game.
EDIT: I've argued these lineup decisions before in terms of what optimal lineups bring to the table in terms of xGF.
And I sincerely hope you don't believe Tanev had a good 2016-17 season - because that clearly wasn't the case. Arguably, there's not much to use from to predict that all the sudden he would post a 8-goal season (of which 3 came as a hat-trick) versus the 2-goals he had last season, other than "he shoots a lot".
Dayofthedogs
Bettman's hammer
I wish coaches and GMs would take a course and have to be tested on what Corsi and the such actually means instead of all these incorrect narratives being spouted off of it. It's a shame there's not enough time to go through 500+ publications dating back to the early 2000s and figure out what has evolved off of what, but I encourage you to do so if you're interested.
Luckily, I can point to how Tanev performed last season versus this season:
Personally, I am happy that Tanev has grown into better than he was last season in terms of shot metrics. Typically you don't get that with players going from age 25 to 26. Still, a -15 to +11 goals on metric isn't something to be totally trusted. If you wanted my honest opinion, I think Tanev's real talent lies somewhere in the middle of these two drastically different seasons. If anything, the only consistent thing between these two seasons is that Tanev draws a ton of penalties (which is a good thing). I also think playing with the likes of Copp, Armia, and Lowry vs Thorburn, Burmistrov, and Petan is more of a complement to what he brings to the game.
EDIT: I've argued these lineup decisions before in terms of what optimal lineups bring to the table in terms of xGF.
And I sincerely hope you don't believe Tanev had a good 2016-17 season - because that clearly wasn't the case. Arguably, there's not much to use from to predict that all the sudden he would post a 8-goal season (of which 3 came as a hat-trick) versus the 2-goals he had last season, other than "he shoots a lot".
I do not believe Tanev had a good 16/17 season.
I did believe that it was possible for a player with some NHL caliber traits to grow his game in his second year.
I use analytics all the time but it's plain as day that they are only a piece of the puzzle.
Most importantly I think you show one of their biggest weaknesses when you reference not expecting Tanev to improve much between the ages of 24 and 25. It doesn't take into account that he came from college, the fact that he has NHL caliber traits and the big thing missing from his game seemed to hockey IQ.
A hockey person would probably take a gamble on him learning routes and positioning by repetition and and practice and improving in his second NHL season. Hence why not all decisions are made with spreadsheets.
I'll be frank. I've noticed your posts tend to focus on players you don't particularly like. Earlier in the season you dropped in a PGT to eviscerate Hendricks and Tanev for their PK numbers and probably rightfully so but you managed to leave out the fact both of them had terrific 5vs5 numbers in that same game.
I could be wrong but you seem to use your talent and knowledge to dump on players you don't like and the coaches decisions. You're very knowledgable but you have a tendency to also hide flattering stats for players you don't like.
I'm curious about how you felt Hendy played 5vs5 this season as Murat from the athletic had a really interesting piece about him and his play near the end of the regular season.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
You are right... it's not everything... but it's on average 40% of the total picture, so when 40% of the picture says bad or good... you might need to take heed to that at least for a good part.
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Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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You are right... it's not everything... but it's on average 40% of the total picture, so when 40% of the picture says bad or good... you might need to take heed to that at least for a good part.
I do heed it, I don't believe I said otherwise. I believe in context, my point still stands..
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Oh ya. I was just adding context, on about the extent or weight to it.
In isolation, shot quantity is the singular most important thing... but the other parts matter as well. Ignore Corsi and you don’t get the whole picture. Look only at Corsi and you don’t get the whole picture.
ERYX
'Pegger in Exile
Well, I'm fine with people questioning the coach's decisions and after we've got to discuss something. It would be cool if people were a little less harsh or more willing to give credit when its due but people are entitled to disagree with what the coach does. That said, the results speak for themselves I think. Maurice and his team got results -- that's not an argument appealing to authority, but appealing to results.
All that said, I'm going to voice the incredibly unpopular opinion that I'm not outraged over Hendricks being on the ice when Perrault and Armia were out. I do believe guys like him can bring a tangible benefit based on my own experience in sports (albeit not at a pro level). To people who say he can bring his leadership from the press box or as a coach, I believe there is a very different dynamic and effect to having a player with those "glue" qualities versus a coach.
truck
Registered User
Bolded. I see this argument all the time. What I don't see is ANYBODY who actually understands Corsi using it as the ultimate litmus test to make roster decisions.
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
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Why? Hoping he will turn into an NHL player in another year or two?
Where I would play him would depend on what prospects I had available. I would not want him taking ice time away from a legitimate prospect. I might have him play on every line in blocks of several games with each pair of other forwards. From all we know of him he would make a great playing coach at that level.
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