Missing the net isnt counted as a shot right? On goal its not, but personally would it count as one for frattin? That'd explain his high shooting % somewhat. He does miss the net a lot. usually misses or it goes in lol
Riellyfan04
Registered User
What i love about this guy is, when he gets the puck and rushes, hes just so creative and dangerous! Reminds me of Kulemin but with better hands and shot.. I don't think he will be a top 6 forward but a botton 6 for sure..
I've seen the vast majority of his NHL games, and a few of his AHL games, and he's shown serious tunnel vision in most of them. Of course you can find a few good passes, all NHLers make good passes, but compared to other NHLers Frattin is really not a playmaker. That's not to say that he can't improve in this regard, but watch him play and it's clear that he looks very strongly for his shot, and often fails to recognize when his team mates are in good positions. If Frattin had great vision he'd be a good 1st line player, because everything else about his game is great (good skater, excellent shot, strong, solid puck handler, solid 2-way plat), it's his weak vision that makes him more of a "3rd liner with 2nd line upside." I like Frattin, he's a good player, but when he gets the puck his mentality is very similar to someone like Jason Blake.
Just so we're on the same page, when I talk about playmaking/passing, I'm not talking about the ability to hit a target with a pass, all NHLers can do that. I'm talking about his playmaking ability, vision, whatever you want to call it. The ability to consistently recognize when your team mates are in good positions, and to get the puck to them, or to even draw defenders and/or wait out the opposition specifically to put your team mates in good positions. Frattin is legitimately fairly bad at this compared to other NHLers. He can definitely score goals, but he does not use his team mates well.
Again, I do like Frattin as a player, but to say that he's an average playmaker (i.e. better than roughly 50% of all NHLers) is IMO way off.
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The Podium
Registered User
+1, guy has all the physical attributes to be and incredible player but doesnt have the head to be a complete or star player, a mentally disabled (in terms of hockey sense) Ovechkin if you will.
Considering 50% of NHLers are 3rd and 4th liners and are not relied on for their offense, it's not a far fetched statement.
Yeah, he's a machine in the minors but really hasn't impressed at the NHL level.
I do like Frattin better than a lot of the guys the Leafs have put one their lower lines in recent years, hopefully in the future he can do better than his 8 goals in 60 NHL games or whatever it is.
I do like Frattin better than a lot of the guys the Leafs have put one their lower lines in recent years, hopefully in the future he can do better than his 8 goals in 60 NHL games or whatever it is.
lamp9post
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2007
- 4,410
- 1,665
I must be missing something here. If you see him as being that dangerous, why don't you think he'll be a top 6 forward?
I like Frattin's athleticism and think he'll be a good 3rd liner for a long time.
Im Old Gregggg
Registered User
minus being one of the all time great pests of the game
man i miss having a prime darcy and would kill for us to find another one (closest one that comes to mind is brad ross) .... gotta say i like the fact that we have a few young forwards like frattin, ross and biggs that can bring some tenacity going forward (heck it would even be nice to give komarov a shot after the lockout if he comes back)
KlattNazty
Registered User
- Feb 3, 2011
- 3,425
- 5
Hoping to get some input on this prospect profile I completed of Matt. Thanks.
Matt Frattin - Toronto Maple Leafs #99 Overall 2007 Entry Draft
Forward
SEASON TO DATE:
Toronto Marlies
DOB: January 3, 1988
Skill assessment on 20-80 scale.
SUMMARY
Matt Frattin is a goal-scoring winger. Capable of playing both wings, I believe he has more success on the right wing than left. Has a well above average shot, possibly even a high end shot. Has decent wheels, and is noticeable along the boards and in all three zones. Motor is not always on high, and he should not be relied upon to create offense. If given time and space with the puck on his stick he will burn goalies regularly with his shot. Is decent on the cycle, and has pretty quick hands around the net. Capable of tipping pucks to create chances. Passing skills are at best NHL average. Can get puck to net with regularity, but if rushed will miss the net with his shot. Dangling skills are mediocre. Release is smooth but could be faster. When paired with skilled passing forwards he is capable of being a game-breaking finisher at NCAA + AHL levels, remains to be seen how well it will translate to NHL given lack of time and space. With less time and a fairly uncreative game there is fair concern over a streaky goal scoring nature. Has a truly top end one timer but has difficulty getting into proper position to use it given mediocre at best four-way mobility. Has a bullish frame with incredible strength given size. Needs to engage significantly more in physical contact if he wishes to increase his value; however, his play this season in AHL has shown an decent increase in physical presence. Nearly impossible to knock over. Can be very 1-dimensional at times with tunnel vision, and a shoot at all costs mentality.
Given Matt Frattin’s age (24) it is tough to discern what his remaining upside is. I feel comfortable projecting him as a gritty goal scoring third liner, but I am hesitant to say he has top 6 upside. Improvement in some basic tools and he could reach that level however.
CSS CHECKLIST:
Skating
(55) Acceleration - Moves well, has deceptive quickness and can sneak past defenders
(50) Speed - Speed at full stride is average
(60) Balance - Bull strength, impossible to knock over in open ice, not as noticeable on boards
(45) Mobility - Agility, footwork, pivots, stops and starts, might be slightly below average for NHL. Reduces his ability on the cycle.
(50) Backward Skating - Is not a glaring weakness, roughly average for NHL forward.
Overall = Skating is decent with some choppiness, but he effectively moves from point A to B. Top end speed is lacking, but has some explosiveness in stride. Could improve in east-west mobility and in shiftiness.
Puck skills
(55) Shot accuracy - Can pick corners quite well with adequate time. If rushed, can be guilty of pushing for a corner (and missing) instead of getting puck on net.
(60/65) Shot strength - Heavy shot very difficult to handle for goalies at times, slap shot / one timer is possibly a (70).
(55) Shot release - Can get the puck off with regularity. Smooth, and powerful. Perhaps not as quick as it should be.
(60) Possess multiple shot types - Wrist and snap shot have strong power, and at times seem to have eyes. Back hand is decent, not remarkable. Half-clapper / one-timed slap shot best tool but not adept at using it.
(45) Stick-handling ability - Dangling is NHL average at very best, he is not a dangler. Can hold onto a puck easily, but does not seek to turn a player inside out. Seems to be aware this is a weakness.
(50) Puck protection - Body position is strong, protects puck decently, but can get caught in tight because of mediocre mobility. Strength makes up for it in some cases.
(N/A) Faceoffs - Matt is a winger.
(45) Giving a Pass - Not a playmaking winger. Can make decent small passes to help continue an offensive play, but will not thread the needle with regularity to fuel scoring chances.
(55) Receiving a Pass - Can catch a puck on his blade well, hands are good enough to catch a pass on the move, and he can settle it down or shoot it while wobbling for a chance.
(50) Scoring touch - Consistently in high traffic areas creating / engaging in offense. Gets puck to net when opportunity arises. Could stand to physically take puck to net more with his strength. This area could improve should he start to utilize his physical tools more.
Overall = Strong shooting player. Lacking in playmaking skil-lset, but does not have the vision to play that kind of game regardless. His shooting skills are close to if not at an all-star level. Should he start to engage more physically, it is conceivable he becomes a bigger front of net threat.
Competitiveness
(55) Scoring drive - Shoots a lot, tries consistently to put the puck in the net. Motor is not strong enough to be a threat in more areas on the ice.
(50) Work ethic - Is consistent generally from shift to shift, but has noticeably stronger shifts occasionally especially in the offensive end. At times can be guilty of being invisible until he scores.
(50) Attitude - Seems to have relaxed approach both on and off-ice, doesnt come off as a leader however. Problematic college days appear to be behind him.
(50) Consistency - Coach can feel comfortable with him in many situations and from game to game. Will generally be a hard working player every night leaving little for a coach to complain about. Certain shifts stronger than others, and goal scoring can be streaky. At lower levels Matt Frattin is a consistent goal scoring threat shift to shift.
(50) Forechecking - Is strong along boards but can be out worked due to mobility concerns, however he is generally quick to attack the puck carrier. With increase in physicality he will become stronger on the forecheck. Increased motor will make him a real problem.
Overall = Somewhat quiet but is a lead-by-example type. Gets the job done on the ice, and doesnt give coaches or referees attitude. Is a gamer and shows up in the clutch to score goals. His average motor makes him appear like he is not trying as hard in all areas of ice, but he is generally engaged in play in all three zones.
Physical Play
(50) Board & Corner play - Battles for pucks, willing to pay the price with body, I expect this to improve.
(55) Physical presence - Size and strength are used as an asset; can throw big hits and when tries can make them hurt. Can use size to create offense. Is tentative yet aware of strength, can hit players off the puck in the offensive zone to strip them of puck and create chances.
(55) Conditioning - Well conditioned, could stand to improve so he can increase his motor. However, not worth it if it will detract from his strength as his strength is exceptional.
(60) Hitting - Hits with big power, and can hurt a player. Does not do it enough. Should engage physically in his own zone more as he can be a powerful intimidation tool.
(N/A) Fighting - Does not fight often, if at all.
Overall = Strong physical player when engaging. Consistency in this department could improve. Generally is at least average.
Hockey Sense
(45) Playmaking - Not one to read a defense and make passes to create offense. Can move a puck adequately at the NHL level, but absolutely not to be relied on to create offense at NHL level.
(50) Anticipation - Reads and reacts to the play, quick to strike when opportunity arises, generally a shooter although can surprise by making a pass in a scoring situation. Decent in defensive anticipation, will not over-stretch or seek a big hit and remove himself from position. Knows role as a goal scorer and puts himself in scoring positions, but could stand to be the physical player more often.
(55) Discipline - Typically avoids bad penalties, accepts a bad call, not often drawn into retaliation but does not take abuse. Often found in scrums even if not necessarily the main component.
(50) Decision Making - Could add an east-west element to his game, but as a winger he does a good job of playing along the wing and being a goal-scorer. Can be guilty of being predictable as he is shooter. Is far less valuable when not playing with players who help create offense.
(55) Play under pressure - Can be stymied by a tough defense, especially if his line is shutdown effectively. He is still noticeable, but is less effective. Can come through in the clutch however and be a difference maker if given opportunities to score.
(50) Versatility - Decent defensively, but is not a 1st PK unit player or a player you want out with a minute remaining and a one goal lead. Can be used on a PP however, and is generally not a liability.
Overall = Not a strong creative offensive forward. Significantly better finisher than playmaker. Can be useful on a cycle, but is not a significant asset. Can keep most passing plays going, but not a guy to thread the needle for a play. At best when set up aptly with goal scoring chances. If found near open near hash marks and sometimes further he can be a consistent and legitimate goal scoring threat.
Defensive Play
(50/55) Defensive Anticipation - Can read a play, is consistent with gap control, puck pursuit is not as strong as it could be. Improvement would add good value.
(50) Positioning - Generally keeps forwards to the outside when defending, can at times get beat by the more fleet of foot. Is however normally in the right place to break up a poor play or block a shot.
(50/55) Backchecking - Is good at returning to his own zone, not one to be lazy coming back. Will find an open man and pick them up, but could stand to be a bigger pain upon returning to his own zone.
(50) Defensive Reliability - Can be used in some defensive situations, but not a top defensive player.
Overall = Slightly above average defensive player. Can be used in most situations and could improve in this area with further experience at NHL level.
Psychological Factors
(50) Leadership - Pretty quiet on ice demeanor, seems to get along with other players but is not one to take command of a team or a bench.
(55) Communication - Talks to other players and coaches on ice and on bench. Can be seen calling for a puck.
Confidence - Strong confidence, especially in his shot. Wants to be set up in offensive zone.
Overall = Has a professional mentality, and is the type of player to fit easily into an NHL dressing room. Does not strike me as a leader however, but is definitely a team player.
Matt Frattin - Toronto Maple Leafs #99 Overall 2007 Entry Draft
Forward
SEASON TO DATE:
Toronto Marlies
DOB: January 3, 1988
Skill assessment on 20-80 scale.
SUMMARY
Matt Frattin is a goal-scoring winger. Capable of playing both wings, I believe he has more success on the right wing than left. Has a well above average shot, possibly even a high end shot. Has decent wheels, and is noticeable along the boards and in all three zones. Motor is not always on high, and he should not be relied upon to create offense. If given time and space with the puck on his stick he will burn goalies regularly with his shot. Is decent on the cycle, and has pretty quick hands around the net. Capable of tipping pucks to create chances. Passing skills are at best NHL average. Can get puck to net with regularity, but if rushed will miss the net with his shot. Dangling skills are mediocre. Release is smooth but could be faster. When paired with skilled passing forwards he is capable of being a game-breaking finisher at NCAA + AHL levels, remains to be seen how well it will translate to NHL given lack of time and space. With less time and a fairly uncreative game there is fair concern over a streaky goal scoring nature. Has a truly top end one timer but has difficulty getting into proper position to use it given mediocre at best four-way mobility. Has a bullish frame with incredible strength given size. Needs to engage significantly more in physical contact if he wishes to increase his value; however, his play this season in AHL has shown an decent increase in physical presence. Nearly impossible to knock over. Can be very 1-dimensional at times with tunnel vision, and a shoot at all costs mentality.
Given Matt Frattin’s age (24) it is tough to discern what his remaining upside is. I feel comfortable projecting him as a gritty goal scoring third liner, but I am hesitant to say he has top 6 upside. Improvement in some basic tools and he could reach that level however.
CSS CHECKLIST:
Skating
(55) Acceleration - Moves well, has deceptive quickness and can sneak past defenders
(50) Speed - Speed at full stride is average
(60) Balance - Bull strength, impossible to knock over in open ice, not as noticeable on boards
(45) Mobility - Agility, footwork, pivots, stops and starts, might be slightly below average for NHL. Reduces his ability on the cycle.
(50) Backward Skating - Is not a glaring weakness, roughly average for NHL forward.
Overall = Skating is decent with some choppiness, but he effectively moves from point A to B. Top end speed is lacking, but has some explosiveness in stride. Could improve in east-west mobility and in shiftiness.
Puck skills
(55) Shot accuracy - Can pick corners quite well with adequate time. If rushed, can be guilty of pushing for a corner (and missing) instead of getting puck on net.
(60/65) Shot strength - Heavy shot very difficult to handle for goalies at times, slap shot / one timer is possibly a (70).
(55) Shot release - Can get the puck off with regularity. Smooth, and powerful. Perhaps not as quick as it should be.
(60) Possess multiple shot types - Wrist and snap shot have strong power, and at times seem to have eyes. Back hand is decent, not remarkable. Half-clapper / one-timed slap shot best tool but not adept at using it.
(45) Stick-handling ability - Dangling is NHL average at very best, he is not a dangler. Can hold onto a puck easily, but does not seek to turn a player inside out. Seems to be aware this is a weakness.
(50) Puck protection - Body position is strong, protects puck decently, but can get caught in tight because of mediocre mobility. Strength makes up for it in some cases.
(N/A) Faceoffs - Matt is a winger.
(45) Giving a Pass - Not a playmaking winger. Can make decent small passes to help continue an offensive play, but will not thread the needle with regularity to fuel scoring chances.
(55) Receiving a Pass - Can catch a puck on his blade well, hands are good enough to catch a pass on the move, and he can settle it down or shoot it while wobbling for a chance.
(50) Scoring touch - Consistently in high traffic areas creating / engaging in offense. Gets puck to net when opportunity arises. Could stand to physically take puck to net more with his strength. This area could improve should he start to utilize his physical tools more.
Overall = Strong shooting player. Lacking in playmaking skil-lset, but does not have the vision to play that kind of game regardless. His shooting skills are close to if not at an all-star level. Should he start to engage more physically, it is conceivable he becomes a bigger front of net threat.
Competitiveness
(55) Scoring drive - Shoots a lot, tries consistently to put the puck in the net. Motor is not strong enough to be a threat in more areas on the ice.
(50) Work ethic - Is consistent generally from shift to shift, but has noticeably stronger shifts occasionally especially in the offensive end. At times can be guilty of being invisible until he scores.
(50) Attitude - Seems to have relaxed approach both on and off-ice, doesnt come off as a leader however. Problematic college days appear to be behind him.
(50) Consistency - Coach can feel comfortable with him in many situations and from game to game. Will generally be a hard working player every night leaving little for a coach to complain about. Certain shifts stronger than others, and goal scoring can be streaky. At lower levels Matt Frattin is a consistent goal scoring threat shift to shift.
(50) Forechecking - Is strong along boards but can be out worked due to mobility concerns, however he is generally quick to attack the puck carrier. With increase in physicality he will become stronger on the forecheck. Increased motor will make him a real problem.
Overall = Somewhat quiet but is a lead-by-example type. Gets the job done on the ice, and doesnt give coaches or referees attitude. Is a gamer and shows up in the clutch to score goals. His average motor makes him appear like he is not trying as hard in all areas of ice, but he is generally engaged in play in all three zones.
Physical Play
(50) Board & Corner play - Battles for pucks, willing to pay the price with body, I expect this to improve.
(55) Physical presence - Size and strength are used as an asset; can throw big hits and when tries can make them hurt. Can use size to create offense. Is tentative yet aware of strength, can hit players off the puck in the offensive zone to strip them of puck and create chances.
(55) Conditioning - Well conditioned, could stand to improve so he can increase his motor. However, not worth it if it will detract from his strength as his strength is exceptional.
(60) Hitting - Hits with big power, and can hurt a player. Does not do it enough. Should engage physically in his own zone more as he can be a powerful intimidation tool.
(N/A) Fighting - Does not fight often, if at all.
Overall = Strong physical player when engaging. Consistency in this department could improve. Generally is at least average.
Hockey Sense
(45) Playmaking - Not one to read a defense and make passes to create offense. Can move a puck adequately at the NHL level, but absolutely not to be relied on to create offense at NHL level.
(50) Anticipation - Reads and reacts to the play, quick to strike when opportunity arises, generally a shooter although can surprise by making a pass in a scoring situation. Decent in defensive anticipation, will not over-stretch or seek a big hit and remove himself from position. Knows role as a goal scorer and puts himself in scoring positions, but could stand to be the physical player more often.
(55) Discipline - Typically avoids bad penalties, accepts a bad call, not often drawn into retaliation but does not take abuse. Often found in scrums even if not necessarily the main component.
(50) Decision Making - Could add an east-west element to his game, but as a winger he does a good job of playing along the wing and being a goal-scorer. Can be guilty of being predictable as he is shooter. Is far less valuable when not playing with players who help create offense.
(55) Play under pressure - Can be stymied by a tough defense, especially if his line is shutdown effectively. He is still noticeable, but is less effective. Can come through in the clutch however and be a difference maker if given opportunities to score.
(50) Versatility - Decent defensively, but is not a 1st PK unit player or a player you want out with a minute remaining and a one goal lead. Can be used on a PP however, and is generally not a liability.
Overall = Not a strong creative offensive forward. Significantly better finisher than playmaker. Can be useful on a cycle, but is not a significant asset. Can keep most passing plays going, but not a guy to thread the needle for a play. At best when set up aptly with goal scoring chances. If found near open near hash marks and sometimes further he can be a consistent and legitimate goal scoring threat.
Defensive Play
(50/55) Defensive Anticipation - Can read a play, is consistent with gap control, puck pursuit is not as strong as it could be. Improvement would add good value.
(50) Positioning - Generally keeps forwards to the outside when defending, can at times get beat by the more fleet of foot. Is however normally in the right place to break up a poor play or block a shot.
(50/55) Backchecking - Is good at returning to his own zone, not one to be lazy coming back. Will find an open man and pick them up, but could stand to be a bigger pain upon returning to his own zone.
(50) Defensive Reliability - Can be used in some defensive situations, but not a top defensive player.
Overall = Slightly above average defensive player. Can be used in most situations and could improve in this area with further experience at NHL level.
Psychological Factors
(50) Leadership - Pretty quiet on ice demeanor, seems to get along with other players but is not one to take command of a team or a bench.
(55) Communication - Talks to other players and coaches on ice and on bench. Can be seen calling for a puck.
Confidence - Strong confidence, especially in his shot. Wants to be set up in offensive zone.
Overall = Has a professional mentality, and is the type of player to fit easily into an NHL dressing room. Does not strike me as a leader however, but is definitely a team player.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
That's 125 shots bro. If he plays a full season and gets 250 shots, even at a 12.5% shooting percentage he eclipses 30G. Sustainable
Absolutely not the only one with that line of thinking. Frattin is without a doubt better than Kadri (imo, of course - although I have a hard time taking anyone who says otherwise seriously)
7even
Offered and lost
Matthew Frattin is 24 years old. The amount of growth he has left is questionable. What you're seeing is likely what you're getting.
I agree with you, I'm just really high on Frattin and believe he's quite a good, nearly finished product. He doesn't need much further development, just exposure. Frattin being better than Kadri isn't a slight at Kadri either, rather a testament of Frattin's overall skill and ability
I'm not really high on Frattin. I don't think he ever gets more than around 15 goals in the show. He could learn to be a great third liner though.
And to above poster, I take Kadri in 3 years over Frattin now, anyday of the week. Kadri still has much higher upside imo.
And to above poster, I take Kadri in 3 years over Frattin now, anyday of the week. Kadri still has much higher upside imo.
