Player Discussion Matt Dumba

[Bazeek]

I wonder if the injury hasn't had some lingering effects. His shooting has looked a little off all year.

 

[Bazeek]

A lot of people talk about failing to sell high on Zucker...

I'll confess, between Spurgeon being signed forever and guys like Soucy and Menell playing well, I've been wondering if a Dumba trade isn't going to be our best option to acquire the center we need.

Of course this would be the year his numbers take a dip.

 

[Minnesota]

I'll confess, between Spurgeon being signed forever and guys like Soucy and Menell playing well, I've been wondering if a Dumba trade isn't going to be our best option to acquire the center we need.

Of course this would be the year his numbers take a dip.

Brent Burns all over again?

 

[Bazeek]

Brent Burns all over again?

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think this slump is going to last so trading him now would probably be dumb.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Wouldn’t think about moving him now. He’s been brutal, but I’m not selling low on another dynamic player. This is a guy we were talking about pushing for 30 two months ago. I think teams are covering him more, he’s nursing something, and not having a real setup man has been an adjustment for him. Granlund to Dumba was magic last year.

 

[57special]

I thought he was fine when playing with Brodin, just a little snake bit. I don't like him playing with Suter, at all.

Brodin and Soucy are quite hot together, though. Soucy reminds me of Scandella at his best. Quite a little conundrum he is creating with his play if he can keep it up.

Either Brodin or Dumba would fetch a haul on the trade market, I would think. Brodin's play this year has to have made him attractive...it's hard to find a shutdown defensive Dman with decent size who can also skate like the wind, and is superb at breaking out the puck. I think they are undervalued, and one way offensive Dmen are overrated.

Would be interesting to see Soucy and Dumba play together.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Teams have figured out how to contain him on the PP and he has yet to figure out a new way to still contribute. Let's not forget half of his points last year came from the PP. The thing I'm worried about is his confidence. He doesn't seem to have that same swagger he carried in the past and seems almost down at times. I can still see him getting 10g and 30pts at the minimum this year even with this rut.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Teams have figured out how to contain him on the PP and he has yet to figure out a new way to still contribute. Let's not forget half of his points last year came from the PP. The thing I'm worried about is his confidence. He doesn't seem to have that same swagger he carried in the past and seems almost down at times. I can still see him getting 10g and 30pts at the minimum this year even with this rut.

Teams can’t stop Ovechkin and he plays in the same area on PP as Dumba

 

[SupremeNachos]

Ovi's slapper is on a different level than Dumbas.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Teams can’t stop Ovechkin and he plays in the same area on PP as Dumba

OV has Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Carlson and Oshie to draw their own attention.

 

[Bazeek]

Teams have figured out how to contain him on the PP and he has yet to figure out a new way to still contribute. Let's not forget half of his points last year came from the PP. The thing I'm worried about is his confidence. He doesn't seem to have that same swagger he carried in the past and seems almost down at times. I can still see him getting 10g and 30pts at the minimum this year even with this rut.

He did get 21 of his 36 points in 2016-17 at even strength, and only 2 of his 14 goals in 2017-18 came on the powerplay. Like any player he relies on the powerplay to put up high-end numbers, but historically he's been pretty good at producing 5v5 as well.

 

[57special]

The problem isn't Dumba on the PP, but the other players. They aren't even close to what WAS has. We are so stagnant, and unimaginative, and unskilled compared to them.

Dumba gets in trouble when he thinks too much in the D end, and tries to force things through the neutral zone. He plays more relaxed when he's with Brodin. He is also a good passer in the Ozone when he is relaxed, but forces the shot when he's not.
Suter has this habit of being overly deliberate with his passing, and always pausing a beat before moving the puck. Not the best when you are trying to get the puck to Dumba for a one timer.

I am not really worried, but I always had lesser expectations for him than most on this board.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

2017 through injury compared to 2019-20 so far 5v5 (per game)
SOG: 1.59 vs 1.69
iCF: 3.49 vs 3.63
iFF: 2.21 vs 2.41
iSCF: .74 vs .88
iHDCF: .17 vs .09
SH%: 8.84 vs 5.56

2017 through injury compared to 2019-20 so far PP (per game)
SOG: .68 vs .50
iCF: 1.26 vs 1.34
iFF: 1.00 vs .81
iSCF: .32 vs .25
iHDCF: .05 vs .03
SH%: 10.39 vs 0.00​

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

I don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment and now really isn’t the time to trade him but...what players would you like to see in return in a hypothetical trade?

 

[Bazeek]

I don’t want to be a prisoner of the moment and now really isn’t the time to trade him but...what players would you like to see in return in a hypothetical trade?

A comparable center, preferably one that isn't any older than Dumba. That list of names isn't long, unfortunately.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out a winger, but it'd have to be a pretty compelling one. I know Boeser for Dumba's come up on the Trade Board, but I have a hard time swallowing that one.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I really, really don’t want to see Dumba traded, but there are certain players that I think the wild could use long-term that would make it understandable. I like current NHL players Sean Monahan, Martin Necas (don’t see why Carolina would want defenseman), Barzal, Zibanejad, and prospects that would help us are Zegras/Turcotte, but I can’t see either of those teams feeling the need to compete soon.

 

[57special]

Barzal is a far more valuable player than Dumba. He is a true #1 C, and younger than Dumba. TML might be tempted to trade Nylander(who is playing well), but with Dumba's poor play that might be a hard sell. It's a Catch 22. No one wants to trade Dumba when he is playing well, no one wants to trade for him when he isn't.

 

[Bazeek]

Barzal is a far more valuable player than Dumba. He is a true #1 C, and younger than Dumba. TML might be tempted to trade Nylander(who is playing well), but with Dumba's poor play that might be a hard sell. It's a Catch 22. No one wants to trade Dumba when he is playing well, no one wants to trade for him when he isn't.

Nylander playing well is still putting up the same numbers as Zucker next to better centers on a stronger offensive team. And he's paid quite a bit more to do it.

Factoring in age, contract, position, and performance Dumba's still the most valuable player on this team. It's good that we have the luxury of considering moving him, but doing so without addressing our need at center would be pure madness.

 

[57special]

I guess I think that Nylander can be that C...hell, if Donato is playing #2C between Parise and Fiala, then Nylander certainly can. Nylander is younger, and since we're bringing up stats, Dumba is an offensive Dman who gets lots of PP TOI with only 9 points.

As for linemates...well, Dumba gets to play with either Suter, or Brodin. Pretty nice guys to have around to clean up your messes.

 

[Bazeek]

I guess I think that Nylander can be that C...hell, if Donato is playing #2C between Parise and Fiala, then Nylander certainly can. Nylander is younger, and since we're bringing up stats, Dumba is an offensive Dman who gets lots of PP TOI with only 9 points.

As for linemates...well, Dumba gets to play with either Suter, or Brodin. Pretty nice guys to have around to clean up your messes.

We're comparing best-case Nylander to worst-case Dumba, though. If you look at numbers for both since 2017-18 it's...

Nylander
170 GP - 38G - 73A - 111P
0.22 G/gm - 0.43 A/gm - 0.65P/gm

Dumba
148 GP - 29G - 52A - 81P
0.20 G/gm - 0.35 A/gm - 0.55 P/gm

So even if Dumba played forward we're not looking at a huge offensive upgrade. The fact that Dumba's done this as a defenseman makes it close to a non-starter for me.

I don't see Nylander as a center any more than I see Donato as one, though. It's cool that Donato's done well there and I hope it continues, but hope isn't a plan.

 

[57special]

How about Marner? I would've thought it impossible, even last year, but his production has been mediocre this year, and that contract...oof! I wonder if Dubas would want to get out of it...also wonder if BG would want to get into it?

 

[AKL]

We can’t afford Marner unless we’re moving Zucker or Zuccarello along with Dumba.

 

[Bazeek]

How about Marner? I would've thought it impossible, even last year, but his production has been mediocre this year, and that contract...oof! I wonder if Dubas would want to get out of it...also wonder if BG would want to get into it?

If we bite on Dumba for a winger I'd hope it's someone like Marner. I assume that's nigh impossible from Toronto's end but even if they'd do it... like you say, that contract is intimidating.

But with Parise and Zuccarello having NMC's it'd have to be someone compelling enough to justify moving out multiple young wingers to make room.

 

[57special]

Marner's production this year is worrying. In your words, like Zucker's but with way less goals. 10.9M cap hit? He's getting paid to be a PPG+ scorer, and isn't getting it done. As soon as you bring a cap hit like that onto a team, it creates dissent, unless the player is far and away the best on the team, and a leader.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Marner's production this year is worrying. In your words, like Zucker's but with way less goals. 10.9M cap hit? He's getting paid to be a PPG+ scorer, and isn't getting it done. As soon as you bring a cap hit like that onto a team, it creates dissent, unless the player is far and away the best on the team, and a leader.

Marner has more points than Zucker and has played 11 fewer games and he is over ppg... that's not "like" Zucker's production at all. Ridiculous that his name would appear in this thread in the trade context. No one outside him and his Dad and the NHLPA likes that contract but still

There was a shot of Dumba on the bench a couple of games ago massaging himself under the arm, looked uncomfortable... he's just not fully healed is my guess.