Matt Carle vs Mathieu Carle

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Sammy*

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I'm sorry but when NHL scouts take a guy #53 overall is not because "His chance of ever playing making the NHL is very, very slim" like you said.

The original comment was dumb, but yours is even worst.

Grab one, will ya. Try taking a peek at how likely it is that a #53 becomes a fringe NHL'r, never mind a decent one. Its higfly, highly unlikely. From the 1992 to the 2002 draft, the 2 shining stars were Brad Larsen & Steve Moore (like 200 games or so between them). Both barely made the NHL in any capacity. Not one other guy did anything at all(Tallacksen may, but as we speak its not real rosy).
Only in fantasy land (we all know where that is) do guys like Carle have anything but a slim chance of being a servicibale NHL'r.
 
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NewHabsEra*

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I for one have never seen a stupid hockey player become smart.
Ever.

Saying Carle is a stupid hockey player is quite ridiculous, the guy has some positionning work to do but his hockey sense is fine in the whole, just a more offensively minded type of Dmen
 

stardog

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His post was indeed stupid. He talks about Matthieu like there's no room for improvement, like if he's never going to improve on his weaknesses and become a good player. He said that Matthieu can't become a Rafalski. But didn't Rafalski never got drafted and came into the NHL at 26 years old? That means he improved a lot since he's 18. But Matthieu Carle cannot improve, that's something beyond his reach. :clap: "some decent reasoning" :sarcasm:

Well I am not ripping on you so I hope you dont take it that way, but he didnt say that in the post you responded to with the laughing guy. You just totally read what you wanted to read because when you say in your post:
"He talks about Matthieu like there's no room for improvement, like if he's never going to improve on his weaknesses and become a good player"

When he says the opposite such as his statement (quoted for effect)
"I COULD see him become a servicable defenseman like Brisebois,"

I think right there is direct proof that he indeed said that Carle COULD improve and make the NHL as a servicable defensman. So it is obvious you are wrong on that one or you read it wrong.
Next you said:
"He said that Matthieu can't become a Rafalski."

I really dont see why you have a problem with this statement. Rafalski is one of the best defensemen in the NHL right now and you can probably say that 95% of all draftees wont become a Rafalski. I dont know why you would get offended over that when it is said about a Hab prospect. And Rafalski was an exception. Yes he was undrafted, yes he improved GREATLY by the time he came to the NHL, but that is clearly an exception and not the rule.
You then take the whole Rafalski thing even further in saying:
''But Matthieu Carle cannot improve, that's something beyond his reach"

When again, in the post which is in question (the post you responded to with the laughing guy) he states point blank that he admits that he COULD become a serviceable NHL defenseman. Is that not an admition that someone CAN improve as he clearly isnt an NHL caliber defensman right now? It certainly is and he is certainly admitting that Carle COULD improve.

Finally, you finish up with this:
"But Matthieu Carle cannot improve, that's something beyond his reach. :clap: "some decent reasoning" :sarcasm:"

I think that once again, you aren't the one who is being reasonable here. It WOULD be poor reasoning if he indeed said that he wouldnt or couldnt improve but YOU are the one who is saying he said that when in fact, he never said that.
So in retrospect, you read what you wanted and called his post stupid for reasons that you made up.
He doesnt think he is a great prospect. Big deal. Thats his opinion and we are all entitled to ours. Yet argue the points as he stated them. Not as the words you put in his mouth that he never said.
And, the most outlandish comment in this entire thread was:
"i think that at worst he'l become a 7th defensmen"
yet you made no mention of that. It is stating that the very WORST this guy could be is a sure fire NHL player which I think everyone would agree (except for the very biggest of homers) is ridiculous as the guy could certainly bust just like any other prospect.
So again, his post wasnt stupid unless you read it the way which you re=posted it. In that case, I think you should work on the whole reading comprehension thing (and again, I am not attacking you, I just didnt understand why you too such offense to his opinion) because he clearly wasnt saying what you seem to think he said. The proof is there, and I have re-posted it to help you out.
Dont thank me....I live to give.
 

stardog

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By the way, I would take Matt Carle over Matthieu. At this point, I agree it's not even close. But let's not forget that Matthieu is very young and full of potential. He could turn into a decent player and he has a bad reputation here and I learnt that it was all crap. I used to be dissapointed that we drafted him, but it seemed that what I have read about him was a load of crap after all.

I can agree with most of what you just said. Especially the part about taking Matt over Matthieu.
Keep in mind that what you read on here are just opinions like yours and mine. Maybe they were full of crap and maybe they werent. It is all in the eye of the beholder and people look at players and rate them differently.
So if he turns into a good NHL player, good for him and it wont really matter what those dissenting opinions were now would it?
 

ChemiseBleuHonnete

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That gave me an headache...

I don't even have high hopes for Matthieu. I think he has a nice upside like most prospects and I have no clue if he will develop into a good player or not. But saying that he can't become a great player is as bad as saying he bust at this point. Even if he talked that Carle could became a Brisebois, he should not exclude that he could become more than that. That's all I'm saying and quite frankly, what I have read about Matthieu here was crap, that's why I'm still debating at this point.
 

stardog

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That gave me an headache...

I don't even have high hopes for Matthieu. I think he has a nice upside like most prospects and I have no clue if he will develop into a good player or not. But saying that he can't become a great player is as bad as saying he bust at this point. Even if he talked that Carle could became a Brisebois, he should not exclude that he could become more than that. That's all I'm saying and quite frankly, what I have read about Matthieu here was crap, that's why I'm still debating at this point.

No I dont think it is near as bad. what has a better chance of happening:
1) Him becoming an all star
2) Him becoming a career minor leaguer

To say that at the worst he will be a 7th defenseman takes away any and all possibility of him not even making the NHL, which I think anyone would agree could happen. To say that it simply CANT happen is being incredibly naive and practically impossible. That is saying he is a sure fire/cant miss NHL guy at the age of 18 (we arent talking about Crosby here) which is one of the most incredibly ridiculous things I have read on these boards (and that says alot).
So the chances of him becoming a great NHL player (all star year after year) are pretty slim as most players dont reach that level.
 

Beatnik

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Grab one, will ya. Try taking a peek at how likely it is that a #53 becomes a fringe NHL'r, never mind a decent one. Its higfly, highly unlikely. From the 1992 to the 2002 draft, the 2 shining stars were Brad Larsen & Steve Moore (like 200 games or so between them). Both barely made the NHL in any capacity. Not one other guy did anything at all(Tallacksen may, but as we speak its not real rosy).
Only in fantasy land (we all know where that is) do guys like Carle have anything but a slim chance of being a servicibale NHL'r.


The same can be said about every player taken after the top 20. With your logic every Hockeysfuture probability rating should be reduced A LOT.

The Oilers 2nd rounder is 7.0C which means by definition that in the worst case he'll be a "5" player (a 7th defensemen).
 

Sammy*

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The same can be said about every player taken after the top 20. With your logic every Hockeysfuture probability rating should be reduced A LOT.

The Oilers 2nd rounder is 7.0C which means by definition that in the worst case he'll be a "5" player (a 7th defensemen).
#21 statistically has a waaaay better chance of making the show than #53.
And yes, the Oiler 2nd rounder is also quite unlikely to make the show.
 

Hunter Gathers

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His post was indeed stupid. He talks about Matthieu like there's no room for improvement, like if he's never going to improve on his weaknesses and become a good player. He said that Matthieu can't become a Rafalski. But didn't Rafalski never got drafted and came into the NHL at 26 years old? That means he improved a lot since he's 18. But Matthieu Carle cannot improve, that's something beyond his reach. :clap: "some decent reasoning" :sarcasm:

I think the only stupid thing in the entire thread is how much you misinterpret people.

And also the fact that you think that he can become a Rafalski.
 

ChemiseBleuHonnete

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To say that at the worst he will be a 7th defenseman takes away any and all possibility of him not even making the NHL, which I think anyone would agree could happen. To say that it simply CANT happen is being incredibly naive and practically impossible.

It wasn't me who said that, so why are you quoting me?
 

stardog

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It wasn't me who said that, so why are you quoting me?

Probably because you said this:
But saying that he can't become a great player is as bad as saying he bust at this point.

And you said that right after I said this:
''And, the most outlandish comment in this entire thread was:
"i think that at worst he'l become a 7th defensmen"
yet you made no mention of that. It is stating that the very WORST this guy could be is a sure fire NHL player which I think everyone would agree (except for the very biggest of homers) is ridiculous as the guy could certainly bust just like any other prospect."


which makes me believe you are disagreeing that the most outlandish comment was NOT the one where the great homer said at worst he will be a 7th Dman. So I quoted you because you disagreed with it. It is quite simple to understand why I quoted you because you flat out stated that the two points were just as outlandish, when one is far more outlandish than another.
I really dont see why you are confused. I quoted you because you made a comment about it. I honestly think there is a problem with your comprehension because while you didnt make the original statement, you certainly gave an opinion on it, and once you did so, I responded to your opinion with one of my own.
Is it really THAT difficult to understand?
 

ChemiseBleuHonnete

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And you said that right after I said this:
''And, the most outlandish comment in this entire thread was:
"i think that at worst he'l become a 7th defensmen"
yet you made no mention of that. It is stating that the very WORST this guy could be is a sure fire NHL player which I think everyone would agree (except for the very biggest of homers) is ridiculous as the guy could certainly bust just like any other prospect."



Is it really THAT difficult to understand?

i think that at worst he'l become a 7th defensmen( Patrice Brisebois type) and at best he'l become a Rafalski type.

Was that me? Is it that hard to understand. Get a life stardog, and learn to read.
 

Hunter Gathers

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talk about irony! I'm not even the one who talked about Rafalski!

You:

He said that Matthieu can't become a Rafalski. But didn't Rafalski never got drafted and came into the NHL at 26 years old? That means he improved a lot since he's 18. But Matthieu Carle cannot improve, that's something beyond his reach.

This to me tells me that you think he can become a player like Rafalski and that you were agreeing with the poster who first brought it up.
 

ChemiseBleuHonnete

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This to me tells me that you think he can become a player like Rafalski and that you were agreeing with the poster who first brought it up.

Well, it was just an example of improvement. When Rafalski was 18 years old, nobody could have thought he would become that good. But he improved and every prospects can improve, but you think that Carle won't improve his "awful hockey sense", or that he will remain a "stupid player". Anyways, stop playing with words, it wasn't me, both of you and stardog didn't read carefully yet you both want to make it like it was me who didn't read carefully. Like I told the other guy, get a life.
 
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