Matt Barzal vs Mitch Marner

[BHD]

Best to wait until next season. People were this excited over Marner last season, only for him to go through the sophomore slump.

 

[Ainec]

honestly don't think Marner is even slumping

obviously he had a very productive rookie season, but he hasn't been bad at all. Production doesn't always increase year to year

 

[1specter]

honestly don't think Marner is even slumping

obviously he had a very productive rookie season, but he hasn't been bad at all. Production doesn't always increase year to year

He was though. He was not as effective or confident with the puck and looked less dynamic and was getting stripped of the puck. The last few weeks however he's been skating circles around everyone and has the puck on a string. Babcock even said how he just needed to score a goal finally and get the monkey off his back.

 

[Ainec]

He was though. He was not as effective or confident with the puck and looked less dynamic and was getting stripped of the puck. The last few weeks however he's been skating circles around everyone and has the puck on a string. Babcock even said how he just needed to score a goal finally and get the monkey off his back.

every single player in the league has had bad games or characterised as a slow starter. Look at Tavares this season. I don't think Marner is slumping because his underlying #s for this season as a whole is good, doesn't matter that he's had a bad stretch because that is also taken into account

Anyways even if Marner's production was up a lot of people would still vote Barzal for the following reasons
-doing it in his first full season and as a center
-close enough that it's down to preference/belief

Marner
-larger sample size/more proven
-close enough that it's down to preference/belief

 

[Raging Bull]

He was still effective on the power play but yeah he was slumping goal scoring wise. Kind of surprising he's basically on the same pace as last year.

 

[1specter]

every single player in the league has had bad games or characterised as a slow starter. Look at Tavares this season. I don't think Marner is slumping because his underlying #s for this season as a whole is good, doesn't matter that he's had a bad stretch because that is also taken into account

Anyways even if Marner's production was up a lot of people would still vote Barzal for the following reasons
-doing it in his first full season and as a center
-close enough that it's down to preference/belief

Marner
-larger sample size/more proven
-close enough that it's down to preference/belief

Except his shooting % was terrible and that's usually the #1 sign that a skilled player isn't getting the breaks. That's a slump.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think you’re taking this way too seriously lol....

Barzal may indeed have the better season in 2017/2018 (though more then 1/2 a season remains to be played), but given their young age it will take longer for anyone to say for sure either way. Marner was the better player last season - so lots of factors will need to be taken into account to compare the two as we get more information - ie how wide of a gap are the two players this year, and is that gap enough to clearly justify one > the other.

Really? If anyone is taking this serious it's your reaches on a 12% shooting percentage and your sample size standard reply you cling to only when it suits you. Funny how it doesn't work the other way when you are propping up Nylander or Marner's low goal totals. You've been rather quiet the past 2 years on this haven't you? You can make all the excuses you can dream of. Barzal has been better than Marner in every metric you choose to discuss. Even one you have avoided. Barzal is a #16 pick, Marner is #4 pick, and picked over some very good players. Which player do you think is living up to their pick positions more would you say?

 

[Pocket Hercules]

I watch both often, and The biggest difference in Barzal's skating to Marner's is Barzal has a separation gear Marner does not possess. Also Barzal is very strong on his skates, whereas Marner is falling all over himself at times without even being checked. The similarity I will agree in is both have good edge work. However, it would be hard pressed even for a Leafs fan to claim Marner is a better skater than Barxal is. I said Barzal is in the top 2% of NHL skaters in the NHL. I may have not given him enough credit. Maybe even top 1% when not many players that I can think of can skate as fast and shifty with the puck than he can. This is a key to his success this season, and this will make him a great player for years to come. Isles fans are certainly lucky to have him.

I doubt that...you didn't even know Nylander finished with 61 pts last year.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

At the draft I was hyping up Barzal like crazy. I had him in the same tier with Hanifin/Provorov/Werenski (I had Marner/Strome as a slightly higher tier to those guys). Blew my mind everytime he got passed by.

Haven't watched him as much as I would like but I wouldn't be even a little surprised if he's as good as Marner or better.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

You know very well, that's not a good comparison ...Otherwise I'll say Loui Eriksson is better than Auston Matthews cause he scored over 70 pts several times before lol

That’s the exact same comparison, one kid is having a solid rookie season, the other after a solid rookie season on a worse team I might add is having a sophmore slump which he actually is breaking out of lately.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Honestly the best part of all of this is the leaf fans posting in the hischier thread all summer that this rookie class was horrible. Swing and a miss there eh?

I’m quite happy with Timmy Lil actually, that certainly wasn’t me

 

[Strait2thecup]

I’m quite happy with Timmy Lil actually, that certainly wasn’t me

Rookie, not draft

 

[Menzinger]

Really? If anyone is taking this serious it's your reaches on a 12% shooting percentage and your sample size standard reply you cling to only when it suits you. Funny how it doesn't work the other way when you are propping up Nylander or Marner's low goal totals. You've been rather quiet the past 2 years on this haven't you? You can make all the excuses you can dream of. Barzal has been better than Marner in every metric you choose to discuss. Even one you have avoided. Barzal is a #16 pick, Marner is #4 pick, and picked over some very good players. Which player do you think is living up to their pick positions more would you say?

I must say I’m rather flattered at how closely you seem to follow my opinion on players....

I don’t really feel like going off topic into other players like Nylander but I’ve been happy with his play (and Nylander’s) since they’ve made it into the NHL, don’t really think my opinion has at all changed really, I post about each player quite frequently.

I find your strange fixation on draft selection to be quite odd, it becomes meaningless the second a player’s name has been called. Especially since it’s not as if either of these players have been longtime rivals,m

I don’t think saying “it’s too early to tell” is making an “excuse”, if anything I’d say it’s the more rational position to take. I’ve been quite open saying Barzal has been playing very well this season, albeit benefiting from a hot streak.

Edit: couple typos and clairification

 

[Ulysses31]

This didn't age too well.

Marner is still on a tear.. anyways its close.

Barzal looks like a legit number 1c tho and his last game he looked unreal

 

[Knies iT]

Best to wait until next season. People were this excited over Marner last season, only for him to go through the sophomore slump.

Marner is 1 or 2 points shy of last year's total at this point in the year. He's been dominant of late.

Huge slump /s.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Marner is 1 or 2 points shy of last year's total at this point in the year. He's been dominant of late.

Huge slump /s.

He will finish a lot stronger this year since he won't have to deal with mono. He's going to break out big time. Mark my words, he will get over 75 points this season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I must say I’m rather flattered at how closely you seem to follow my opinion on players....

I don’t really feel like going off topic into other players like Nylander but I’ve been happy with his play (and Nylander’s) since they’ve made it into the NHL, don’t really think my opinion has at all changed really, I post about each player quite frequently.

I find your strange fixation on draft selection to be quite odd, it becomes meaningless the second a player’s name has been called. Especially since it’s not as if either of these players have been longtime rivals,m

I don’t think saying “it’s too early to tell” is making an “excuse”, if anything I’d say it’s the more rational position to take. I’ve been quite open saying Barzal has been playing very well this season, albeit benefiting from a hot streak.

Edit: couple typos and clairification

It is not off topic using a different using other player examples you have used previously, where you did not apply the same standards here.

I am simply saying you aren't fooling anyone. Since you did not use your small sample size reasoning last year after much less games than 36, you said Nylander was on a higher tier than Ehlers when a poll was created after Nylander had a fast start, and Ehlers didn't. The contradictions of your arguments are obvious when I read your excuses here for Marner and your continued marginalization of Barzal.

As for Draft position obviously it is important when discussing both players, expectations are not the same. Would you say Barzal as a Center has lived up to his expectations more at #16 or Marner as a winger at #4? I don't know about you but normally a 4th overall pick is supposed to be much better than a #16th overall pick. What are your expectations? That the #16th player should be better?

 

[LordNeverLose]

Not sure why every thread around here has to devolve into trashing the other player.

I'd rather have Barzal, but personally I believe Marner will be a consistent 70 point player for the next decade or so. Both great young players.

 

[Menzinger]

It is not off topic using a different using other player examples you have used previously, where you did not apply the same standards here.

I am simply saying you aren't fooling anyone. Since you did not use your small sample size reasoning last year after much less games than 36, you said Nylander was on a higher tier than Ehlers when a poll was created after Nylander had a fast start, and Ehlers didn't. The contradictions of your arguments are obvious when I read your excuses here for Marner and your continued marginalization of Barzal.

As for Draft position obviously it is important when discussing both players, expectations are not the same. Would you say Barzal as a Center has lived up to his expectations more at #16 or Marner as a winger at #4? I don't know about you but normally a 4th overall pick is supposed to be much better than a #16th overall pick. What are your expectations? That the #16th player should be better?

The flattery continues! I can’t even recall the particular thread you just mentioned (assuming it exists), impressive memory. I’m not trying to “fool” anybody, it’s hardly uncommon for somebody’s option or position to change over time. Id suggest lightening up a bit, it’s just a message board.

And no, draft pedigree IS pretty meaningless. Is hardly uncommon in NHL history that a mid round 1st selection ends up better than a top 10 pick, if anything I’d say it’s fairly frequent occurrence (not to say that’s happening here of course). All that matters is how players perform/develop in the period following the draft. Even taking it into accout the draft, Marner is developing in line with his position - entered the NHL earlier and had a rookie season that shown he can produce at a first line rate.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The flattery continues! I can’t even recall the particular thread you just mentioned (assuming it exists), impressive memory. I’m not trying to “fool” anybody, it’s hardly uncommon for somebody’s option or position to change over time. Id suggest lightening up a bit, it’s just a message board.

And no, draft pedigree IS pretty meaningless. Is hardly uncommon in NHL history that a mid round 1st selection ends up better than a top 10 pick, if anything I’d say it’s fairly frequent occurrence (not to say that’s happening here of course). All that matters is how players perform/develop in the period following the draft. Even taking it into accout the draft, Marner is developing in line with his position - entered the NHL earlier and had a rookie season that shown he can produce at a first line rate.

What you continue flattery I would call them Menzinger gems of illogical statements you continue to display here that are easy to file away since they are so memorable. As recently as posting about Barzal's unsustainable 12% shooting percentage and hours later Barzal scores a hattrick. I could dig up the poll and thread on Nylandee and Ehlers that you claimed Nylander was always on a higher tier on even less games as you are claiming small sample sizes in this poll. It will be another memorable quote by you. But I would rather discuss when Barzal hits that magic sample size of 61 pts and see how you spin that then when this magical barrier is met. We all know your agenda here. Leafs player sample does not matter. Isles player, it does when marginaling how well he has played this year easpecially as a #16 pick.

 

[joe dirte]

who cares? the leafs are an elite team. one player here or there won't matter. marner is a great young player but all young players have ups and downs. Barzal is currently on an up while marner has been on a down. the great thing about the leafs is they have so many elite young players while one is slumping a little there are probably 2 or 3 on a tear. it's what makes them the best Canadian team (22 wins is good for 4th most in the league) and one of the best young teams in the league. it is great fun watching such a fast young exciting team carry the flag for Canada while so many other Canadian teams struggle (like Ottawa and montreal being so horrible this year).

 

[Morbo]

The revenge threads continue.

Too bad HFBoards opinion polls have no bearing on real life.

 

[CodeE]

The revenge threads continue.

Too bad HFBoards opinion polls have no bearing on real life.

Matthews beat Barzal in a poll 75%/25% before it was closed... is that also a revenge thread with no bearing on real life?

Or are HFboards polls only dismissed by Toronto fans when the Toronto player loses?

 

[Morbo]

Matthews beat Barzal in a poll 75%/25% before it was closed... is that also a revenge thread with no bearing on real life?

Or are HFboards polls only dismissed by Toronto fans when the Toronto player loses?

This entire board is angry over how good the leaf rookies were last year. That could never be allowed to go unchallenged. Now pretty much any young star is declared the better player.

 

[1specter]

Matthews beat Barzal in a poll 75%/25% before it was closed... is that also a revenge thread with no bearing on real life?

Or are HFboards polls only dismissed by Toronto fans when the Toronto player loses?

The fact that there was even a 25% tells you all you need to know.