Mats Sundin was not named as the best player to wear #13, it went to Pavel Datsyuk

[ZEBROA]

I would pick Sundin. Underrated player. I belive he would be more important to Wings then Dats to Leafs. Got a feeling Sundin was better when it mattered. Thats a better player in my book. Sundin and Z in the playoffs i think trumps Dats and Hoglund... (or even mogilny). I realy like Dats thou and its close. Im ok with dats getting the nr , its no big deal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I am a huge Leaf fan but Datsukian magic was world class. And he made it happen when games mattered most. For his 3-4 prime time years he was best player in da game. Sundin had better overall career and numbers but he was never best player on da ice.

 

[hamzarocks]

I am a huge Leaf fan but Datsukian magic was world class. And he made it happen when games mattered most. For his 3-4 prime time years he was best player in da game. Sundin had better overall career and numbers but he was never best player on da ice.

Datsyuk was never the best player in the game. Crosby and Ovechkin were always ahead of ho comfortably. Malkin was better than him to from 08-10 ( datsyuk peak) He played on stacked team with elite linemates. He was not a playoff performer similar to a guy like Bergeron who struggles in the playoffs. Datsyuk at his peak was the 4th best player. That is higher than sundin and I take him over mats slightly but people overrate datsyuk do to his fancy stick handling and defensive awards.

 

[markh100]

Toss-up for me - I'm biased (see profile pic), but I'd say 1A Datsyuk / 1B Sundin, 3 Selanne. If Selanne played his entire career as #13, he'd be #1. Are they debating every #? Curious to see the list of 8s - is Selanne top 3 for both jersey #s? Obviously, Ovechkin is #1 for 8.

 

[markh100]

Found this - https://thehockeywriters.com/greatest-nhl-player-by-jersey-number/

If your a newcomer to the league, and want to become the best known player to ever wear a particular jersey number, I'd aim for one of these guys:

45 – Aaron Asham
48 – Scott Young
51 – Frans Nielsen
54 – David Jones
69 – Andrew Desjardins
75 – Hal Gill
78 – Marc Pouliot
80 – Nik Antropov

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Datsyuk was never the best player in the game. Crosby and Ovechkin were always ahead of ho comfortably. Malkin was better than him to from 08-10 ( datsyuk peak) He played on stacked team with elite linemates. He was not a playoff performer similar to a guy like Bergeron who struggles in the playoffs. Datsyuk at his peak was the 4th best player. That is higher than sundin and I take him over mats slightly but people overrate datsyuk do to his fancy stick handling and defensive awards.

I am talking overall game. From 2006 to 2009 he was best 2 way player in game. Was he da best offensively no but d*mn close to Crosby. Was he da best defensively no but d*mn close to Bergeron. Was he da best faceoff guy no but d*mn close to league leader Big Joe. Was he best +/- guy no but d*mn close to Lindstrom. Where he was da best was time of possession with da puck where no one else was even at his level.

 

[nsleaf]

At the end of the day it's Stanley's Cup that matters, Datsyuk has two and Sundin has zero. Both great players.
I wonder if Mats would trade in his "one of the best Leafs ever" tag for one Cup?

 

[TML1967]

A valid argument if you are talking about value to a team, but I think the question is about the talent if the individual player.

Was Gretzky less of a player just because he had Messier, Coffey, Kurri, and Anderson with him?

Less of a player? GOD no.

Is it fair, when comparing him to say.. Lemieux, to try and think about how different their numbers or careers could be if they had been in different circumstances?

Its my same argument when people talk Bourque and Lindstrom. If you gave Bourque the Wings teams Lindstom played on, how different would the outcome and reputations be?

At the same time, players sometimes play to the strengths/weaknesses of their linemates/teams.
If Matts was on a better team with better wingers, he may have focused more on his defensive game.
If Datsyuk was on the Leafs, who lacked scoring, would he his career point be higher EVEN with worse linemates?

 

[slozo]

I agree with the pick of Dats over Mats . . . but it is closer than people think.
Sundin was a beast defensively too, despite not having that same Selke reputation as Datsyuk did. Just didn't have the world class D behind him like Pavel did, and in the end, hardware wins.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Very few could compare to Wayne, not Datsyuk, nor Sundin...we need to look at Lemieux, Orr and Howe in order to compare to Wayne. It's definitely easier to focus in on stopping Wayne while he played for a weaker Kings team. Messier was the 2nd line centre with the Oilers playing behind Wayne...imagine that.

It's arguable whether Datsyuk is a better player than Sundin. Here are 10 years worth of their stats in their most productive years for their respective teams. Of note, Sundin played many years in the clutching and grabbing era, where he was consistently mugged and draped over by opposition players. Those Leafs teams also weren't very deep, so the opposition could simply focus on stopping him. Sundin consistently delivered more for a worse team over those years. I would argue Sundin is the better player.

Sundin:
Year: total points, team GF (goals for), percentage contribution to team GF
1995-96: 83 pts, 247 goals, 33.60%
1996-97: 94 pts, 230, 40.87%
1997-98: 74 pts, 194, 38.14%
1998-99: 83 pts, 268, 30.97%
1999-00: 73 pts, 246, 29.67%
2000-01: 74 pts, 232, 31.90%
2001-02: 80 pts, 249, 32.13%
2002-03: 72 pts, 236, 30.51%
2003-04: 75 pts, 242, 30.99%
2005-06: 78 pts, 254, 30.71%

Datsyuk:
Year: total points, team GF (goals for), percentage contribution to team GF
2003-04: 68 pts, 255, 26.67%
2005-06: 87 pts, 301, 28.90%
2006-07: 87 pts, 252, 34.52%
2007-08: 97 pts, 252, 38.49%
2008-09: 97 pts, 289, 33.56%
2009-10: 70 pts, 223, 31.39%
2010-11: 59 pts, 257, 22.96%
2011-12: 67 pts, 239, 28.03%
2012-13: 49 pts, 122, 40.16%
2014-15: 65 pts, 231, 28.14%

Very few could compare to Wayne, not Datsyuk, nor Sundin...we need to look at Lemieux, Orr and Howe in order to compare to Wayne. It's definitely easier to focus in on stopping Wayne while he played for a weaker Kings team. Messier was the 2nd line centre with the Oilers playing behind Wayne...imagine that.

It's arguable whether Datsyuk is a better player than Sundin. Here are 10 years worth of their stats in their most productive years for their respective teams. Of note, Sundin played many years in the clutching and grabbing era, where he was consistently mugged and draped over by opposition players. Those Leafs teams also weren't very deep, so the opposition could simply focus on stopping him. Sundin consistently delivered more for a worse team over those years. I would argue Sundin is the better player.

Sundin:
Year: total points, team GF (goals for), percentage contribution to team GF
1995-96: 83 pts, 247 goals, 33.60%
1996-97: 94 pts, 230, 40.87%
1997-98: 74 pts, 194, 38.14%
1998-99: 83 pts, 268, 30.97%
1999-00: 73 pts, 246, 29.67%
2000-01: 74 pts, 232, 31.90%
2001-02: 80 pts, 249, 32.13%
2002-03: 72 pts, 236, 30.51%
2003-04: 75 pts, 242, 30.99%
2005-06: 78 pts, 254, 30.71%

Datsyuk:
Year: total points, team GF (goals for), percentage contribution to team GF
2003-04: 68 pts, 255, 26.67%
2005-06: 87 pts, 301, 28.90%
2006-07: 87 pts, 252, 34.52%
2007-08: 97 pts, 252, 38.49%
2008-09: 97 pts, 289, 33.56%
2009-10: 70 pts, 223, 31.39%
2010-11: 59 pts, 257, 22.96%
2011-12: 67 pts, 239, 28.03%
2012-13: 49 pts, 122, 40.16%
2014-15: 65 pts, 231, 28.14%

As I very specifically compared Gretzky only to Gretzky, you seem to have completely misread my post.

I'm well aware of all the stats. All I'm saying is that maybe we should focus on the players, and not the stats or the outside influences like the quality of teammates or era.

If you don't want to consider my suggestion, that's fine, but I would rather you not misconstrue it.

 

[Pookie]

No issues with the Datsyuk pick.

They are all good players.

 

[Burnie97]

Datsyuk won cups no doubt... but most of his career was surrounded by way better players. You don't win cups on your own.

Sundin was better than datsyuk.

When I think of 13 I think of Sundin.

Sundin was much more consistent. Strictly who was the BEST player to wear 13... its Sundin.

 

[kliq]

Huge fan of both players, watched both of them play quite a bit and I have to give the edge to Datsyuk. He was very underrated offensively due to the fact that he played such a two-way game under Babs. If he was on a team where he was told to go wild, he PPG would have been significantly higher (but then he doesn't win the Selke's to be fair). Not to mention, his stats were brought down from all the injuries he sustained in the last few years of his NHL career.

 

[Its not your fault]

It's an ouch and not enough people truly appreciate and understand what he was capable of.

 

[Its not your fault]

Huge fan of both players, watched both of them play quite a bit and I have to give the edge to Datsyuk. He was very underrated offensively due to the fact that he played such a two-way game under Babs. If he was on a team where he was told to go wild, he PPG would have been significantly higher (but then he doesn't win the Selke's to be fair). Not to mention, his stats were brought down from all the injuries he sustained in the last few years of his NHL career.

I think unless it's an extreme skill gap like in Orrs case. Injury and longevity should matter. I would take this as a mulligan to be honest.

 

[kliq]

I think unless it's an extreme skill gap like in Orrs case. Injury and longevity should matter. I would take this as a mulligan to be honest.

Depends on the question, who is the better player is one thing, who had the better career is another.

 

[LeafsNation75]

One thing in Sundin did in his career that Datsyuk never accomplished was scoring his 500th NHL goal in overtime and it happened to be a short handed hat trick goal. I was lucky enough to see that live and in person at the Scotiabank Arena and it was the greatest moment I had attending a Leafs game.

 

[Goleafsgo95]

Pretend they swapped teams; Mats has the 2 cups and all other stats/awards are the same. I think if you did that the answer is Mats without much thought. 15 70+pt seasons compared to 5 for Datsyuk. While Datsyuk was better defensively, Mats was a much better goal scorer. I do think the answer here is Mats but the 2 cups and Selkes give Datsyuk a legit argument.

 

[al secord]

Mats never had the privilege of playing for the great Mike Babcock.

 

[kb]

Mats never had the privilege of playing for the great Mike Babcock.

Draper - Sundin - McCarty

 

[Its not your fault]

Depends on the question, who is the better player is one thing, who had the better career is another.

I think prime vs prime its pretty darn close so then you would look at careers to separate the two.

 

[tmlms13]

How many of Datsyuk's elite level defense shifts contained the 2nd best defenseman of all time? Must be nice.

That 2002 Wings team had 11 hall of famers. Datsyuk played 11 minutes per game and was outscored by Darren McCarty.

 

[NinjaKick]

ughhh makes me a little sick to be honest. Sundin carried this team on his back for so many years night in and night out... with much less support

just can't agree with this decision

 

[HarryLime]

Can't hate too much, Datsyuk is my favorite player from 2006-2015. Mats was greater though. If Sundin had stayed on the Nordiques/Avs he would be seen in a completely different tier.

 

[Superstar]

Draper - Sundin - McCarty

Maybe that's why he chose Vancouver...