Mathias Johansson in 02

[mattihp]

I have come back to this question again and again. Why was Mathias Johansson playing in the 02 olympics? Madness in coaching?

He had a bad, bad SHL season where he got second line minutes...

Was Sweden really that weak? Jörgen Jönsson also played, why was Mathias needed when the better version suited up?

What NHL talent besides the Sedins (where Henrik couldn't fit in Hardy's system as a center) was overlooked?

Was Påhlsson injured? He would have been a version of Johansson who could skate and pass the puck.

Svartvadet and Salomonsson would also have been improvements IMO. How about Mats Lindgren and Andreas Karlsson?
Which european based player should have had his spot?

Click to read more...

 

[Eye of Ra]

Marcus Nilson perhaps, he could play C. He had a good season in Florida. Very physical guy, just what we needed.

I personally would not have Jörgen on the roster, There was enough centers, i would bring in Wernblom to get even more toughness.

 

[mattihp]

Marcus Nilson perhaps, he could play C. He had a good season in Florida. Very physical guy, just what we needed.

I personally would not have Jörgen on the roster, There was enough centers, i would bring in Wernblom to get even more toughness.

Jörgen Jönsson was named as the fourth player to the roster. One of the earliest confirmed. There was no way he would not be there.

Would you have taken Mathias Johansson ahead of Jörgen?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Would you have taken Mathias Johansson ahead of Jörgen?

No

 

[Jahara]

He was like having Jimmie Ericsson in 2014. Johansson was unspectacular but did know the system and they could have picked Svartvadet or Påhlsson instead but it probably would not have made much difference. Poor and annoying coach Hardy Nilsson for once did pick a good roster but the team peaked early and then we all know about Belarus. Maybe it would have been better with a healthy Forsberg instead of Nylander.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Marcus Nilson perhaps, he could play C. He had a good season in Florida. Very physical guy, just what we needed.
I personally would not have Jörgen on the roster, There was enough centers, i would bring in Wernblom to get even more toughness.

When was toughness an issue in 2002? Belarus did not win because they were able to bully the Swedes around.

The way I understand it: because of the nature of Hardy’s torpedo system and its difficulty of execution, Sweden needed as much skill as possible for it to succeed consistently, the way it did against Canada. More toughness wouldn’t have changed the outcome in 2002.

 

[Eye of Ra]

When was toughness an issue in 2002? Belarus did not win because they were able to bully the Swedes around.

The way I understand it: because of the nature of Hardy’s torpedo system and its difficulty of execution, Sweden needed as much skill as possible for it to succeed consistently, the way it did against Canada. More toughness wouldn’t have changed the outcome in 2002.

the game against canada was a group game. against belarus not enough players went to the net. thats something wernblom and nilson would have helped with, both of them where good players aswell. they could do anything johansson and jonsson did but bring other stuff aswell.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

the game against canada was a group game. against belarus not enough players went to the net. thats something wernblom and nilson would have helped with, both of them where good players aswell. they could do anything johansson and jonsson did but bring other stuff aswell.

I know they were good players and what you’re saying is fine, conventional hockey cliches after any loss: but Sweden had plenty of toughness on that roster, and it’s not why they lost to Belarus in 2002.

Sweden was expecting an easier ride than they got and were shocked and in disarray each time Belarus scored. They were not mentally prepared for a tight game and the uphill struggle from allowing bad goals against an underdog team on a mission.

Sweden only really played well in the second period where they should have buried their opponents if not for Andrei Mezin having the game of his life in net. Plenty of Swedes drove the net: guys like Sundin, Alfredsson, Renberg, Dahlén, Jönsson, Holmström, etc, were not afraid of the opposing players and got in close to create screens and havoc, and to bat at rebounds in front of Mezin. Ruslan Salei was giving Holmström a hard time but it’s not as if it was anything extreme or out of the ordinary for him.

Should also be noted that international competition usually is refereed more strictly (and badly, to be frank), deterring overly physical play, with this game not being an exception, and the refs missing blatant dives and embellishments which Belarusian players successfully exploited to draw penalties several times.

I cannot look at that roster and go “well there’s the problem, that’s just a bunch of perimeter skill guys”, no: that roster should beat Belarus seven days a week and twice on Sundays. Belarus rode a hot goalie and fought and clawed and dove, whereas Sweden received a shoddy performance from its goaltender, and their skaters entered the game arrogant and unprepared, and generally just crapped their pants in face of adversity.

Yes, Sweden beat Canada in the group stage, but that was beautifully designed. The torpedo system was a wonderful idea and that was arguably its greatest moment. It was specifically designed to combat the neutral zone trap employed by something like 80% of NHL teams, but also had been a successful system for Frölunda in Sweden. The trap was also used by Team Canada in 2002 and it was glorious seeing it deconstructed the way Sweden managed in the group stage.

I can’t say Sweden would beat Canada again in an elimination game, as they completely blew it with a ridiculous display against an inferior team, and as they would continue to fail under Hardy’s tenure, but it’s a real shame we never got to experience that game.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I know they were good players and what you’re saying is fine, conventional hockey cliches after any loss: but Sweden had plenty of toughness on that roster, and it’s not why they lost to Belarus in 2002.

Sweden was expecting an easier ride than they got and were shocked and in disarray each time Belarus scored. They were not mentally prepared for a tight game and the uphill struggle from allowing bad goals against an underdog team on a mission.

Sweden only really played well in the second period where they should have buried their opponents if not for Andrei Mezin having the game of his life in net. Plenty of Swedes drove the net: guys like Sundin, Alfredsson, Renberg, Dahlén, Jönsson, Holmström, etc, were not afraid of the opposing players and got in close to create screens and havoc, and to bat at rebounds in front of Mezin. Ruslan Salei was giving Holmström a hard time but it’s not as if it was anything extreme or out of the ordinary for him.

Should also be noted that international competition usually is refereed more strictly (and badly, to be frank), deterring overly physical play, with this game not being an exception, and the refs missing blatant dives and embellishments which Belarusian players successfully exploited to draw penalties several times.

I cannot look at that roster and go “well there’s the problem, that’s just a bunch of perimeter skill guys”, no: that roster should beat Belarus seven days a week and twice on Sundays. Belarus rode a hot goalie and fought and clawed and dove, whereas Sweden received a shoddy performance from its goaltender, and their skaters entered the game arrogant and unprepared, and generally just crapped their pants in face of adversity.

Yes, Sweden beat Canada in the group stage, but that was beautifully designed. The torpedo system was a wonderful idea and that was arguably its greatest moment. It was specifically designed to combat the neutral zone trap employed by something like 80% of NHL teams, but also had been a successful system for Frölunda in Sweden. The trap was also used by Team Canada in 2002 and it was glorious seeing it deconstructed the way Sweden managed in the group stage.

I can’t say Sweden would beat Canada again in an elimination game, as they completely blew it with a ridiculous display against an inferior team, and as they would continue to fail under Hardy’s tenure, but it’s a real shame we never got to experience that game.

we already had full of skilled players and yet we did not win. you need some physical players on the team. only players who played physical among forwards was holmstrom. having couple of guys like wernblom, nilson and modin would for sure add a new dimension and open up space for the finesse players.

anyways, the game against germany....cant find it anywhere. already seen the games vs belarus, czech and canada. my soul will not have peace until i see the game against germany.

 

[mattihp]

we already had full of skilled players and yet we did not win. you need some physical players on the team. only players who played physical among forwards was holmstrom. having couple of guys like wernblom, nilson and modin would for sure add a new dimension and open up space for the finesse players.

anyways, the game against germany....cant find it anywhere. already seen the games vs belarus, czech and canada. my soul will not have peace until i see the game against germany.

Why wasn't Modin there? Simply not chosen or was he injured?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

we already had full of skilled players and yet we did not win. you need some physical players on the team. only players who played physical among forwards was holmstrom. having couple of guys like wernblom, nilson and modin would for sure add a new dimension and open up space for the finesse players.

Is this something that goes for any team they’d face, or only 2002 Belarus?

Sweden had 47 shots on goal to Belarus’ 19, they had plenty of opportunities to win without Nilson or Wernblom, and should’ve done so easily. Lack of physicality wasn’t remotely the issue in 2002. I dislike continuing to pile on Salo, and many players had a bad game, but they shouldn’t have allowed four goals and it wasn’t as if the Swedes were getting pummeled around, couldn’t get to the net or were being intimidated by the Belarusians. At all.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Why wasn't Modin there? Simply not chosen or was he injured?

not chosen. arvedsson chosen over modin...

 

[Eye of Ra]

Is this something that goes for any team they’d face, or only 2002 Belarus?

Sweden had 47 shots on goal to Belarus’ 19, they had plenty of opportunities to win without Nilson or Wernblom, and should’ve done so easily. Lack of physicality wasn’t remotely the issue in 2002. I dislike continuing to pile on Salo, and many players had a bad game, but they shouldn’t have allowed four goals and it wasn’t as if the Swedes were getting pummeled around, couldn’t get to the net or were being intimidated by the Belarusians. At all.

The semifinals and final would be against Canada and USA, stuff will get more physical than it was in group game, and yes Belarus was physical too. I definitely think having guys like modin, nilson and wernblom would add something extra to the team. Enough now, you have your opinion i have mine.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Arvedson, Johansson and Axelsson were defensive forwards and made up the defensive fourth line in 2002: it’s not likely they were choosing between Modin and Arvedson, who at the time was a highly regarded defensive winger in the NHL.

I can’t really get behind discussing Nilson and Wernblom as particularly notable omissions (it’s not Tallinder over Hedman in 2014) but here are a couple more reasons why Johansson and Jönsson made the team over them and even Modin: they were centers. And at least I think Jönsson was a better player than Nilson. I think Nilson could play center, not sure if he did at the time, but at any rate Johansson was picked for his defensive acumen — rightly or wrongly.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Arvedson, Johansson and Axelsson were defensive forwards and made up the defensive fourth line in 2002: it’s not likely they were choosing between Modin and Arvedson, who at the time was a highly regarded defensive winger in the NHL.

I can’t really get behind discussing Nilson and Wernblom as particularly notable omissions (it’s not Tallinder over Hedman in 2014) but here are a couple more reasons why Johansson and Jönsson made the team over them and even Modin: they were centers. And at least I think Jönsson was a better player than Nilson. I think Nilson could play center, not sure if he did at the time, but at any rate Johansson was picked for his defensive acumen — rightly or wrongly.

if we gonna go with a checking line then i would prefer to have more physical players in modin, nilson and wernblom. but maybe it would be better to have go with johan davidsson, niklas andersson and kristian huselius, no doubt these 3 had more skills than arvedsson, johansson and axelsson while being good defensive aswell outside of huselius. that would give us 4 scoring lines...and it was not like alfredsson, sundin, z, naslund etc where bad defensivly..

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

if we gonna go with a checking line then i would prefer to have more physical players in modin, nilson and wernblom. but maybe it would be better to have go with johan davidsson, niklas andersson and kristian huselius, no doubt these 3 had more skills than arvedsson, johansson and axelsson while being good defensive aswell outside of huselius. that would give us 4 scoring lines...and it was not like alfredsson, sundin, z, naslund etc where bad defensivly..

As a checking line, I think it looks formidable on paper. Johansson stands out as the weak link if you consider that his output dropped compared to other seasons, but I’d guess he made sense at the time. Färjestad made the finals the previous year and they’d go on to win the championship in the spring of 2002, I’d reckon his defensive strengths and ability to win face offs were key factors in choosing him. Sami Påhlsson had not yet found his stride in the NHL.

But yeah, no, we’re not in agreement over this.

That team had plenty of physicality and I don’t see the point of going full-Philadelphia Flyers on that roster, especially since the torpedo system probably called for players with strong possession games above anything.

 

[Jahara]

It is a bit strange that Wernblom gets mentioned here so much. The guy was good on a European level but never even played in the World Championship and was never considered for a tournament like this.

I do remember the radio commentators complaining about the line with Sundström-Nylander-Näslund since they underperformed in this game.

 

[Eye of Ra]

It is a bit strange that Wernblom gets mentioned here so much. The guy was good on a European level but never even played in the World Championship and was never considered for a tournament like this.

I do remember the radio commentators complaining about the line with Sundström-Nylander-Näslund since they underperformed in this game.

Its not strange at all, he was the best Powerforward in Elitserien for many years. He never playing a WC is weird becuse he should have played many WC.

 

[Jahara]

He could have made it to a WC once or twice but the Olympics is another level. Having Wernblom in Salt Lake 2002 would be almost like when Hannula was picked for the 2006 roster.

 

[Eye of Ra]

He could have made it to a WC once or twice but the Olympics is another level. Having Wernblom in Salt Lake 2002 would be almost like when Hannula was picked for the 2006 roster.

No it would not be the same. Wernblom would without any doubt be a good NHLer but choosed to stay in Sweden. Hannula never was good enough for NHL.

 

[Jahara]

That Wernblom would have been a good NHL player is just what you are assuming. Hannula had proved himself during a WC and was a right shooter, that is a fact. But no one of them was anything for a Olympic roster.

 

[mattihp]

Arvedson, Johansson and Axelsson were defensive forwards and made up the defensive fourth line in 2002: it’s not likely they were choosing between Modin and Arvedson, who at the time was a highly regarded defensive winger in the NHL.

I can’t really get behind discussing Nilson and Wernblom as particularly notable omissions (it’s not Tallinder over Hedman in 2014) but here are a couple more reasons why Johansson and Jönsson made the team over them and even Modin: they were centers. And at least I think Jönsson was a better player than Nilson. I think Nilson could play center, not sure if he did at the time, but at any rate Johansson was picked for his defensive acumen — rightly or wrongly.

I really liked Arvedson, he was a poor man's Jere Lehtinen. Extremely intelligent and could hold onto the puck. Humble player who did what was needed.

Niklas Sundström seems to have played wing during this season, but he would have been an option to play in the middle to keep Johansson off the team and then pick someone better for the wing on his line.

What were the lines roughly?

I remember Sundin and Alfredsson playing together, Was Näslund or Renberg their third link? Who played with Nyllet?

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

I really liked Arvedson, he was a poor man's Jere Lehtinen. Extremely intelligent and could hold onto the puck. Humble player who did what was needed.

Niklas Sundström seems to have played wing during this season, but he would have been an option to play in the middle to keep Johansson off the team and then pick someone better for the wing on his line.

What were the lines roughly?

I remember Sundin and Alfredsson playing together, Was Näslund or Renberg their third link? Who played with Nyllet?

These were roughly the lines 5v5:

Dahlén - Sundin - Alfredsson
Näslund - Nylander - Sundström
Zetterberg - J. Jönsson - Renberg
Axelsson - Johansson - Arvedson
Extra: Holmström

 

[mattihp]

These were roughly the lines 5v5:

Dahlén - Sundin - Alfredsson
Näslund - Nylander - Sundström
Zetterberg - J. Jönsson - Renberg
Axelsson - Johansson - Arvedson
Extra: Holmström

I would have rolled with
Renberg - Sundin - Alfredsson
Näslund - Nylander - Dahlén
Zetterberg - Jönsson - Holmström
Axelsson - Sundström - Arvedsson