Player Discussion: Mathew Barzal

[Riseonfire]

The Ultimate Highlight reel for Barzal. 40 minutes of goodness by spizzwolf from LHH.

Jeeze.... It's literally as if someone went into the settings and jacked up only Barzal's Agility and Skating stats. He just has such better control over himself and the play than anyone else.

Edit: Also was going over some stats from last season. Barzal was much further down the list of centers than I expected in both TOI/gm and Shifts/gm. Sure he'll be marked closer but assuming he gets 3 mins more ice time/game he will get ~ 246 extra minutes total. 4+ games worth. I'm saying 90+ points next season.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think the hockey world is going to realize the whole BS narrative of Barzal seeing top pairing defenders more this year is exactly that, BS. Its been mentioned here before but someone tweeted the stats that Barzal saw the top pairing defenders 55% of the time or something like that in comparison to Tavares' 45% (im not 100% on the exact figures). Hes going to play his game, be very hard to keep up with and be the starting C in OT instead of JT who was atrocious 3v3.

It's not BS because you simply can't just look at the amount of time spent against certain players. I think Barzal benefited from having Tavares on the team because he did take the top defensive players for at least the beginning of the season. Also, it doesn't allow the opposition to game plan against just Barzal, since Tavares is still a threat. That means how much time each unit is out needs to be managed differently. Fatigue isn't factored in either, since the opposition is playing against two high end players instead of just one.

Remember the playoff series against Tampa Bay and they were able to shut Tavares down after game one? That's because there was no other threat on that team. Having a one two punch helps to prevent scenarios like that, making it easier for both Barzal and Tavares. The difference between the two is that we've seen Tavares do well as the only threat on the roster, and Barzal hasn't had that yet. We'll see how it shakes out. Barzal is such a dynamic player that I think he'll still excel, barring injury, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are points where he gets a little colder than we saw last season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

There is just going to be more focus on Barzal next year. But to say teams did not match their first pairings against him once he became much more effective 5 v 5 in the 2nd half last season to Tavares would also be ignoring he did just as well if not better as the season wore on. The only hurt here is to the Isles team. They are more a shut down Barzal and you shut down the Isles next season due to this. But Barzal is just too good to not put up similar points if healthy being the number 1 choice by Trotz.

Another thing I would look for is Isles will play a counter game that had Washington win the cup as the 24th Possession team last season. Corsi stats are deceiving. But I see this as being great for Barzal's talents. He is one of the most dangerous players on the rush in the NHL.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Hi Wang,

I have been a believer of this kid for some time. You have to check the prospects thread and the many haters, actually most were Leafs fans for some reason? I am not sure why? Only maybe because Barzal has already proven he is better than Marner is the only logical reason I can surmise. But he has already proven those posters wrong by having the best rookie season since Malkin's.

There are going to be some that continually put him down, but when they go low, Barzal will go high and higher. One thing this kid has is playmaking off the charts. As long as he has this talent, he is going to keep the haters at bay. No worries mate.

What the actual hell are you talking about o.o? Leaf fans hate barzal? I am literally in the loss for words with this post as you spreading out lies in other areas and man this is something new. Select few fans(mostly me) that actually even touted the guy to be up there with Marner and I still stand by it I wouldn't have minded it one bit if we drafted this guy over Marner.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

It's not BS because you simply can't just look at the amount of time spent against certain players. I think Barzal benefited from having Tavares on the team because he did take the top defensive players for at least the beginning of the season. Also, it doesn't allow the opposition to game plan against just Barzal, since Tavares is still a threat. That means how much time each unit is out needs to be managed differently. Fatigue isn't factored in either, since the opposition is playing against two high end players instead of just one.

Remember the playoff series against Tampa Bay and they were able to shut Tavares down after game one? That's because there was no other threat on that team. Having a one two punch helps to prevent scenarios like that, making it easier for both Barzal and Tavares. The difference between the two is that we've seen Tavares do well as the only threat on the roster, and Barzal hasn't had that yet. We'll see how it shakes out. Barzal is such a dynamic player that I think he'll still excel, barring injury, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are points where he gets a little colder than we saw last season.

Wouldn't be surprised if he does have a dip in points but honestly, he adapts very quickly from what I've seen and known. Even with his injuries, he took like a 10-15 game adjustment period and people were questioning how it'll affect his trajectory in the draft but towards the end he was fine. NHL is definitely more punishing so the only thing I would be worried about him having targets on his back really.

 

[mm11]

Wouldn't be surprised if he does have a dip in points but honestly, he adapts very quickly from what I've seen and known. Even with his injuries, he took like a 10-15 game adjustment period and people were questioning how it'll affect his trajectory in the draft but towards the end he was fine. NHL is definitely more punishing so the only thing I would be worried about him having targets on his back really.

Hence, Lou's goon squad lurking if #13 gets abused.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What the actual hell are you talking about o.o? Leaf fans hate barzal? I am literally in the loss for words with this post as you spreading out lies in other areas and man this is something new. Select few fans(mostly me) that actually even touted the guy to be up there with Marner and I still stand by it I wouldn't have minded it one bit if we drafted this guy over Marner.

Naw it's the truth. As I stated Most of Barzal's detractors or haters were Leafs fans. Check out this gem of a thread. The Barzal prospects thread where I posted with mostly Isles fans, like minded Barzal fans like @MatthewFlames and mostly Leafs detractors on what type of player Barzal would become. Notice the excuses getting more and more creative as the season wore on and Barzal continued to crush Marner's, Nylander's and Matthews rookie points totals. So I do believe insecurity was the motive. It's no lie as you say it is, it is the truth as you will see when you read this thread.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...e-thunderbirds-whl-2015-16th-nyi-iii.2147557/

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Naw it's the truth. As I stated Most of Barzal's detractors or haters were Leafs fans. Check out this gem of a thread. The Barzal prospects thread where I posted with mostly Isles fans, like minded Barzal fans like @MatthewFlames and mostly Leafs detractors on what type of player Barzal would become. Notice the excuses getting more and more creative as the season wore on and Barzal continued to crush Marner's, Nylander's and Matthews rookie points totals. So I do believe insecurity was the motive. It's no lie as you say it is, it is the truth as you will see when you read this thread.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...e-thunderbirds-whl-2015-16th-nyi-iii.2147557/

LOL. I am not even gonna waste my time. I can legit destroy you with gathering posts via the old school methods and actually dissecting your posts point by point...but life is short and wasting my time on you is not on my priority list. @PWJunior I hope you remember me from the old mod days, old mod bones are shaking, I'm gonna say keep your eye on him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

LOL. I am not even gonna waste my time. I can legit destroy you with gathering posts via the old school methods and actually dissecting your posts point by point...but life is short and wasting my time on you is not on my priority list. @PWJunior I hope you remember me from the old mod days, old mod bones are shaking, I'm gonna say keep your eye on him.

So you called me a liar, I produce a thread proving most of Barzal's haters were Leafs fans. And you are not going to address this or take back what you said. Then you threaten to destroy me. Then you cite your former mod cred. You are frankly too much. Your post speaks volumes of what type of poster you are.

Address what you claimed, or just don't call posters liars. Because I have the quotes that will back me up.

Isles fans know me from posting on Barzal this past year. I have many friends here. So stop budding in our discussions if you do not like what the content is.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

So you called me a liar, I produce a thread proving most of Barzal's haters are Leafs fans. And you are not going to address this or take back what you said. Then you threaten to destroy me. You are frankly too much.

You pointed the thread after he was drafted and people were rampant comparing him and call him things. You do realize I can legit just post threads about how draisalt is better vs barzal just like you did. Hell if I even started quoted most of the posts, your entire point would be invalid within minutes. You literally even went to war with Jets fans on Laine vs Barzal...frankly speaking with you, if I just pull out your history of posts, you are consistent of nothing but creating a shit storm. You thrive on bringing in posts from people that aren't actually bringing insight but just opinions that aren't well informed. Like in that thread alone, I already know 4 prolific leaf posters who did nothing but praise him and calling him a super star.

Barzal was terrific tonight, as he has been all season. I was totally wrong about him, thought his game wouldn’t translate that well, that he’d be a poor man’s RNH. Totally wrong, he’s super dynamic, a really dangerous player. He’s a star already.

Well if we are going to call him a poor mans anything at this point at least you got the team that guy plays for, but it sure as hell wasnt RNH.

Was the best player on the ice tonight. He gains the o-zone with ridiculous ease, so as long as his defenders can get to the point quick enough he establishes strong possession as he goes deep and cuts back. Generally the defence just gave it to him because otherwise he’d have an open lane to the net.

There was legit one guy who was contesting about barzal and most people called him out, hell some ofo the posters from here who I recognized made the joke of "did he kick your dog?"
Worst of all, is that fact even if you say that, go inside Leafs Brass, and even talk to any of the basic scouts there and they will repeat the things the level headed fans talk about. Regardless all the best to you and your future endeavours sir. I will discuss no further with you

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You pointed the thread after he was drafted and people were rampant comparing him and call him things. You do realize I can legit just post threads about how draisalt is better vs barzal just like you did. Hell if I even started quoted most of the posts, your entire point would be invalid within minutes. You literally even went to war with Jets fans on Laine vs Barzal...frankly speaking with you, if I just pull out your history of posts, you are consistent of nothing but creating a **** storm. You thrive on bringing in posts from people that aren't actually bringing insight but just opinions that aren't well informed. Like in that thread alone, I already know 4 prolific leaf posters who did nothing but praise him and calling him a super star.


There was legit one guy who was contesting about barzal and most people called him out, hell some ofo the posters from here who I recognized made the joke of "did he kick your dog?"

I'm not going to spam and ruin this thread with select quotes as you are. I said most of the posters that hated Barzal for some reason were Leafs fans in the prospects thread. You know what most means do you? They are there for you to see. Period. You called me spreading lies. Many Isles and Barzal fans know this. We have been posting in the prospects thread for over a year now. And years before in part 1 and 2. So if you want to spam up this thread with select quotes I am not playing. I have this thread that proves the point much better. https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...e-thunderbirds-whl-2015-16th-nyi-iii.2147557/

Still think I am lying? As for your destroying me, or citing former Mod cred. I don't now what to say about this. Not what I expected from you. Not your best moment and not something adults do here.

 

[boredmale]

You pointed the thread after he was drafted and people were rampant comparing him and call him things. You do realize I can legit just post threads about how draisalt is better vs barzal just like you did. Hell if I even started quoted most of the posts, your entire point would be invalid within minutes. You literally even went to war with Jets fans on Laine vs Barzal...frankly speaking with you, if I just pull out your history of posts, you are consistent of nothing but creating a **** storm. You thrive on bringing in posts from people that aren't actually bringing insight but just opinions that aren't well informed. Like in that thread alone, I already know 4 prolific leaf posters who did nothing but praise him and calling him a super star.

I think in general many Barzal thread on the main board got turned into Marner vs Barzal and Matthews vs Barzal, while the Matthews vs Barzal I believe was a more legit complaint(I personally would say Matthews is better and given his injury it's a bit unfair comparing stats of a guy who played 82 games to 62 games) the Marner fights definitely felt more like sour grapes for a select few Leaf posters

 

[CupHolders]

Good morning Islander fans. How about that Barzal? Well how about we put that aside and instead enjoy reading Leaf fans defending Leaf fans?

Useful stuff I might add.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think in general many Barzal thread on the main board got turned into Marner vs Barzal and Matthews vs Barzal, while the Matthews vs Barzal I believe was a more legit complaint(I personally would say Matthews is better and given his injury it's a bit unfair comparing stats of a guy who played 82 games to 62 games) the Marner fights definitely felt more like sour grapes for a select few Leaf posters

There is one poster that really is hard to forget from the Barzal discussions in the prospects thread. People can deny it all they want. But this post just proves the point there were definitely some sour grapes Barzal turned out so good and so fast.

This poster just kept on being proven wrong as the season wore on.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/141614281/

 

[boredmale]

There is one poster that really is hard to forget from the Barzal discussions in the prospects thread. People can deny it all they want. But this post just proves the point there were some sour grapes Barzal turned out so good so fast.

This poster just kept on being proven wrong as the season wore on.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/141614281/

I did get a good chuckle out of the we shouldn't count any of Barzal's 5 point game(ie therefore he is really a 70 point player) arguments. lol

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I think in general many Barzal thread on the main board got turned into Marner vs Barzal and Matthews vs Barzal, while the Matthews vs Barzal I believe was a more legit complaint(I personally would say Matthews is better and given his injury it's a bit unfair comparing stats of a guy who played 82 games to 62 games) the Marner fights definitely felt more like sour grapes for a select few Leaf posters

The 2015 draft was heavily followed by the Leafs brass, posters alike so I am not surprised they are hella defensive over it. New regime...management and change of everything. The amount of lament there was for the coyotes robbing strome before the leafs (first line centre with size leaf fan yada yada yada) and then how stupid we were for not drafting the number 1 defensemen in Hanifin after Nonis apparently did intensive scouting with him before he was fired. Most of the "calmer" leaf fans were going for Provorov, Marner, zacha, very few select few for Barzal (I got hooked him when I was watching Shea Theodore with my friends over there) and then it was just a crapshoot. Some say for white if I recall correct...so I am not surprised if people have an extra notch for marner pick. Since a lot didn't expect that out of him and also didn't consider Barzal's injury and what impact it had on his game (overblown out of proportion) Was the reason I also said, I hope you guys wait because I swear he can and will be a great captain for you guys. Like both of the players were very dear to me so I cant help but root for him haha.

Barzal most of the time was fairly under the radar for a lot of leaf posters, unless they were watched by DUB posters who are in the west, or contacts over there really. Hell I still remember i think there was a comparison on him and mcdavid when they were both drafted first overall in both bantam drafts in 12' i think? Most prospect threads i always recall, said he would be a steal after 5 and i was crazy enough to say i was one of the few that said i wanted him asap regardless of where we were but hunter pull and contacts and bleh.....

All I cared about is that he was avoided by the bruins legit made me and still to this day is the best thing from that draft not even the marner pick

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I did get a good chuckle out of the we shouldn't count any of Barzal's 5 point game(ie therefore he is really a 70 point player) arguments. lol

There was 1 poster that said he would be lucky to hit 35 points before the year began. Another that said until Barzal hits the magical 61 points sample, his sampling was not valid. Also another poster said this year's rookie crop was far inferior to last years before the year, if Barzal won the calder. To his credit he walked that back when Barzal passed 69 points. Some said he was riding Tavares coattails by being sheltered all year, some that said he would never score 20 goals. You get the picture. I remember it all as the year unfolded.

Barzal just got better, and this is why his thread became a sour grapes contest.

 

[PWJunior]

LOL. I am not even gonna waste my time. I can legit destroy you with gathering posts via the old school methods and actually dissecting your posts point by point...but life is short and wasting my time on you is not on my priority list. @PWJunior I hope you remember me from the old mod days, old mod bones are shaking, I'm gonna say keep your eye on him.

Hey LR, of course I remember you. I've always held you in high regard and still do, but... I think it's pretty crappy for you to come here and attack TWS the way you did with guns hot. I expect it from some other Leaf posters, but not from you. While I can understand you may not like him and his opinions, but that's your issue and not mine. From the interactions I've had with 'Bucky', I enjoy and appreciate his contributions in the Barzal thread on the Prospects area to here at HF Isles.

Considering the current landscape where Leaf fans aren't a particular favorite of mine, I'm going to gravitate to someone who pisses off that fan base to the degree that he does. Who knows if he's my enemy or not, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend for the time being. I think you can understand that. I suggest leaving that crap at the door and contributing here as a quality and respected (by me, at least) poster about the subject at hand and that's Barzal. As I have seen from your later posts after this one, you're doing just that as I would expect from you. You got your shot in, let's move on. I mean, we have seen eachother unfiltered on the mod boards which is the equivalent of 'I've seen you naked' in real life. God, I miss being able to curse to my heart's content. Don't you?

 

[Mess]

I'm a huge Barzal fan and believed he should have gone 3rd OA in his draft behind only McDavid and Eichel.

Statistically he has already proven last year in his rookie season with an impressive 85 points (only OV and Crosby scored more points in their rookie seasons in the past 20+ years) that he can out produce Jack and trailed only Connor from his draft class of 2015.

Lots of NHL scouts look foolish passing on him now. IMO

The loss of JT will impact his production this year as he moves from #2C to clear #1 and faces the best of the opposition nightly and without Johnny T to insulate him and also impact his points on the PP as well, it will be interesting to see how he produces offensively under these new conditions being key offensive cog.

 

[PWJunior]

I'm a huge Barzal fan and believed he should have gone 3rd OA in his draft behind only McDavid and Eichel.

Statistically he has already proven last year in his rookie season with an impressive 85 points (only OV and Crosby scored more points in their rookie seasons in the past 20+ years) that he can out produce Jack and trailed only Connor from his draft class of 2015.

Lots of NHL scouts look foolish passing on him now. IMO

The loss of JT will impact his production this year as he moves from #2C to clear #1 and faces the best of the opposition nightly and without Johnny T to insulate him and also impact his points on the PP as well, it will be interesting to see how he produces offensively under these new conditions being key offensive cog.

Good to have you contributing here Mess.

The development of Barzal is the key to the season. While I have no doubt he has the talent and ability to successfully assume the mantle of the alpha, it's not going to happen overnight. As the season progressed and he was no longer a secret around the league, he commanded a lot more defensive attention and was able to adjust and continue to excel. He'll need to go out and do it for a while season, but I think he does. While the pressure is ramped up as the #1C, so is the opportunity as he'll likely get all the plum deployment opportunities associated with that role. It will be interesting to see how things transpire.

 

[BelovedIsles]

This JT insulating Barzal theory is a straw man argument. He saw top pairings and thrived. Teams planned around him, not JTraitor. He was zeroed in on by mid year and he responded.

He will be stronger, faster, smarter, with a polished shit, and he’ll know what to expect. Internal growth will help him overcome whatever D targeting.

With all that said, teams are going to strategize their game plans specifically around stopping him; that may depreciate his totals. Likewise Lee, 2C, and Bailey will be seeing lesser competition, so that will bump their totals. It’s a dynamic system.

 

[PK Cronin]

This JT insulating Barzal theory is a straw man argument. He saw top pairings and thrived. Teams planned around him, not JTraitor. He was zeroed in on by mid year and he responded.

He will be stronger, faster, smarter, with a polished ****, and he’ll know what to expect. Internal growth will help him overcome whatever D targeting.

With all that said, teams are going to strategize their game plans specifically around stopping him; that may depreciate his totals. Likewise Lee, 2C, and Bailey will be seeing lesser competition, so that will bump their totals. It’s a dynamic system.

There's still an impact having Tavares on the roster has for the opposition, as I outlined earlier. It's also different seeing teams for the first time compared to your tenth time, so we'll see how they react this year. You don't catch guys by surprise as much the more they see you.

 

[BelovedIsles]

There's still an impact having Tavares on the roster has for the opposition, as I outlined earlier. It's also different seeing teams for the first time compared to your tenth time, so we'll see how they react this year. You don't catch guys by surprise as much the more they see you.

Yep agreed on both. Likewise, Barzal knows the league better now as well.

 

[X66]

Hey Islanders fans, I know most of you hate him, and rightfully so.

But I've come with good news on Barzal and why he likely will not regress next year.

Eric Tulsky's study, which can be found here: Link

That study shows that teams generate twice as much offence and chances when they have controlled zone entries and exits. Pretty much saying players that can enter and exit the zone with a puck will always be high end threats to create offence.

The athletic looked at players with the 95th percentile in controlled zone exits and entries since 2016 and Barzal was on both lists.

The athletic went on to look at players in the 95th percentile for shot assists and Barzal was on that list as well.

Both lists pretty much chalked full of high-end players.

I had him pegged for about 65 points for next season, but after seeing this data, it wouldn't surprise me for another 80+ season.

 

[wingnutks]

Hey Islanders fans, I know most of you hate him, and rightfully so.

But I've come with good news on Barzal and why he likely will not regress next year.

Eric Tulsky's study, which can be found here: Link

That study shows that teams generate twice as much offence and chances when they have controlled zone entries and exits. Pretty much saying players that can enter and exit the zone with a puck will always be high end threats to create offence.

The athletic looked at players with the 95th percentile in controlled zone exits and entries since 2016 and Barzal was on both lists.

The athletic went on to look at players in the 95th percentile for shot assists and Barzal was on that list as well.

Both lists pretty much chalked full of high-end players.

I had him pegged for about 65 points for next season, but after seeing this data, it wouldn't surprise me for another 80+ season.

I have always had that assumption. I think it is a really big reason we are all hoping JHS pans out because he was another player with great zone entry capabilities.