Speculation: Mathew Barzal Contract Discussion

[CREW99AW]

I just listened to the interview. It wasn't too critical and it was mostly speculation. He also speculated that Lamoriello might do a better job than other GMs since he has a tendency of not overpaying (they referenced Nelson and Lee's contracts as being fair).

Time will tell, but I'm not overly concerned.

Isles advantage in this case is that Barzal will be 4 yrs from unrestricted free agency and the team will have the option to match any signed offersheet.

As for Lou L getting Barzal on a cheaper then expected contract based on the contracts he signed Lee & Nelson to....I thought Lee left nothing on the table. I am not nearly as impressed with Lou's player moves, as others on this board

 

[PK Cronin]

Isles advantage in this case is that Barzal will be 4 yrs from unrestricted free agency and the team will have the option to match any signed offersheet.

As for Lou L getting Barzal on a cheaper then expected contract based on the contracts he signed Lee & Nelson to....I thought Lee left nothing on the table. I am not nearly as impressed with Lou's player moves, as others on this board

They weren't saying he got bargain deals on them, but that they were paid what they're worth and weren't overpaid.

I think more players need to look at Crosby and say, "that guy took less money because he wants to win, maybe I should do that too." Obviously not everyone thinks that way but it's almost necessary if a player wants to win and stay in one place for a long time.

 

[CREW99AW]

They weren't saying he got bargain deals on them, but that they were paid what they're worth and weren't overpaid.

I think more players need to look at Crosby and say, "that guy took less money because he wants to win, maybe I should do that too." Obviously not everyone thinks that way but it's almost necessary if a player wants to win and stay in one place for a long time.

Isles are not an elite team that won a recent SC or came close and so I do not see Barzal's situation as similar to Crosby's or Stamkos. Isles cannot make the argument that the player should sign a long-term,team friendly deal to allow their elite team to be kept together.
Nor are the isles a team of high end, young talent expected to be a serious SC contender for the next several years like Colorado.

Earlier this season, Barzal was asked about his next contract and responded by saying he was not worried because good play was rewarded.

Kind of hard to argue against Barzal getting $9m+ when Skinner who averaged 63 pts a season, got $9m per and when less productive centers Johansson+ Duchene got $8m per.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Isles are not an elite team that won a recent SC or came close and so I do not see Barzal's situation as similar to Crosby's or Stamkos. Isles cannot make the argument that the player should sign a long-term,team friendly deal to allow their elite team to be kept together.
Nor are the isles a team of high end, young talent expected to be a serious SC contender for the next several years like Colorado.

Earlier this season, Barzal was asked about his next contract and responded by saying he was not worried because good play was rewarded.

Kind of hard to argue against Barzal getting $9m+ when Skinner who averaged 63 pts a season, got $9m per and when less productive centers Johansson+ Duchene got $8m per.

UFA's vs RFA.

 

[CREW99AW]

UFA's vs RFA.

I already pointed out in an earlier post (in this thread),that the isles advantage is that Barzal is not a ufa for 4 more seasons and the isles will have the option of matching any signed offersheet.

That has nothing to do with the suggestion that was made, about Lou getting Barzal to sign a team friendly contract like Crosby or Stamkos did. Isles are not going to be able to use the argument that Barzal is part of an elite team,with serious SC chances,so he should take less $ to keep the group together.

As for the ufa vs rfa argument... Johansson was a rfa when he signed his $8m deal,Marner a rfa when he signed his $11m+ extension.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Isles are not an elite team that won a recent SC or came close and so I do not see Barzal's situation as similar to Crosby's or Stamkos. Isles cannot make the argument that the player should sign a long-term,team friendly deal to allow their elite team to be kept together.
Nor are the isles a team of high end, young talent expected to be a serious SC contender for the next several years like Colorado.

Earlier this season, Barzal was asked about his next contract and responded by saying he was not worried because good play was rewarded.

Kind of hard to argue against Barzal getting $9m+ when Skinner who averaged 63 pts a season, got $9m per and when less productive centers Johansson+ Duchene got $8m per.

I'd say you're right and that the majority of the hockey world expects Barzal to be getting 9+ million per on his next contract.

What Lou privately thinks about it, and what he may be planning with respect to Barzal moving forward, is something we'll never find out about - not publicly in the media or unless the very unlikely event of a trade takes place. But Lou will see to it that Barzal gets the money necessary to keep him our (satisfied) asset for as long as possible.

As others have mentioned, there is no way Lou can afford to take the huge step backwards that losing Barzal would be so shortly before Belmont.

At least one would certainly have to think that.

LEE, EBERLE, and NELSON:
This is not directed at you per se, but if there are people out there who believe these three wouldn't have gotten the money they ended up with - perhaps even better - on the free market, then nobody here can help you. I'd only suggest that if you think that way, you don't go waving that train of thought around people who are in the know about the NHL market. As Crew mentioned above, if there are GMs out there who are giving the Jeff Skinners of the world 9+ MM per, then there should be no doubt that our boys could have gotten as much as they did for resigning here - or more - on the free market as well.

In light of having 6 UFAs last summer (four of which were critically important to what the team had achieved), a situation where the team captain could walk for the second summer in a row, and the desire to go for the biggest fish in the UFA pond (who'd have been placed right in front of Lee's nose as the #1 LW), Lou did nothing short of a masterful job in locking down Nelson and Eberle to extremely market-fair deals before being the biggest bidder for Panarin while keeping Lee on stand-by, only to re-up the captain to a deal that he'd surely have gotten elsewhere.

Sure, Lee's deal looks like a deal that may become very ugly towards its conclusion, but Lou couldn't allow this team to take a step backwards on paper after what was established last season. He tried to make it considerably better, but then managed to at least keep it the same. At least with respect to the skaters.

Goaltending is something different, although I'm pretty sure that if Sorokin ultimately signs in time for next season, then the Varlamov signing will be "completed". And I think Lou and Korn were very ready to see goaltending take a slight step back in order to get Sorokin over here, but that all still has to play out...

In any case, Lou will no doubt do what's necessary in keeping Barzal as the cornerstone of this team - as long as some crazy GM doesn't come along offering Mat 12 MM plus per year.

Are there any out there who would/could?

 

[ScaredStreit]

UFA's vs RFA.

Look at the past few years of RFA signings though around the league...star young players are basically getting what they'd get on the open market.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Look at the past few years of RFA signings though around the league...star young players are basically getting what they'd get on the open market.

Toronto sure, but Laine got 6x2. I thin Barzal gets something around that, but a third year. 7x3 maybe.

 

[PK Cronin]

Isles are not an elite team that won a recent SC or came close and so I do not see Barzal's situation as similar to Crosby's or Stamkos. Isles cannot make the argument that the player should sign a long-term,team friendly deal to allow their elite team to be kept together.
Nor are the isles a team of high end, young talent expected to be a serious SC contender for the next several years like Colorado.

Earlier this season, Barzal was asked about his next contract and responded by saying he was not worried because good play was rewarded.

Kind of hard to argue against Barzal getting $9m+ when Skinner who averaged 63 pts a season, got $9m per and when less productive centers Johansson+ Duchene got $8m per.

I already pointed out in an earlier post (in this thread),that the isles advantage is that Barzal is not a ufa for 4 more seasons and the isles will have the option of matching any signed offersheet.

That has nothing to do with the suggestion that was made, about Lou getting Barzal to sign a team friendly contract like Crosby or Stamkos did. Isles are not going to be able to use the argument that Barzal is part of an elite team,with serious SC chances,so he should take less $ to keep the group together.

As for the ufa vs rfa argument... Johansson was a rfa when he signed his $8m deal,Marner a rfa when he signed his $11m+ extension.

The argument I'd use is that the only way they can contend and bring in better players is if Barzal takes less money/fair money. We'll see though, I'm not really worried. Barzal didn't seem to like what Tavares did so I expect a little bit more of a straightforward process from him. You never know though.

 

[MJF]

The argument I'd use is that the only way they can contend and bring in better players is if Barzal takes less money/fair money. We'll see though, I'm not really worried. Barzal didn't seem to like what Tavares did so I expect a little bit more of a straightforward process from him. You never know though.

I think Barzal is going to come to the table asking for Marner money.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I think Barzal is going to come to the table asking for Marner money.

I'd be shocked if he got Marner money. Marner is way, way better.

 

[CREW99AW]

I'd say you're right and that the majority of the hockey world expects Barzal to be getting 9+ million per on his next contract.

What Lou privately thinks about it, and what he may be planning with respect to Barzal moving forward, is something we'll never find out about - not publicly in the media or unless the very unlikely event of a trade takes place. But Lou will see to it that Barzal gets the money necessary to keep him our (satisfied) asset for as long as possible.

As others have mentioned, there is no way Lou can afford to take the huge step backwards that losing Barzal would be so shortly before Belmont.

At least one would certainly have to think that.

LEE, EBERLE, and NELSON:
This is not directed at you per se, but if there are people out there who believe these three wouldn't have gotten the money they ended up with - perhaps even better - on the free market, then nobody here can help you. I'd only suggest that if you think that way, you don't go waving that train of thought around people who are in the know about the NHL market. As Crew mentioned above, if there are GMs out there who are giving the Jeff Skinners of the world 9+ MM per, then there should be no doubt that our boys could have gotten as much as they did for resigning here - or more - on the free market as well.

In light of having 6 UFAs last summer (four of which were critically important to what the team had achieved), a situation where the team captain could walk for the second summer in a row, and the desire to go for the biggest fish in the UFA pond (who'd have been placed right in front of Lee's nose as the #1 LW), Lou did nothing short of a masterful job in locking down Nelson and Eberle to extremely market-fair deals before being the biggest bidder for Panarin while keeping Lee on stand-by, only to re-up the captain to a deal that he'd surely have gotten elsewhere.

Sure, Lee's deal looks like a deal that may become very ugly towards its conclusion, but Lou couldn't allow this team to take a step backwards on paper after what was established last season. He tried to make it considerably better, but then managed to at least keep it the same. At least with respect to the skaters.

Goaltending is something different, although I'm pretty sure that if Sorokin ultimately signs in time for next season, then the Varlamov signing will be "completed". And I think Lou and Korn were very ready to see goaltending take a slight step back in order to get Sorokin over here, but that all still has to play out...

In any case, Lou will no doubt do what's necessary in keeping Barzal as the cornerstone of this team - as long as some crazy GM doesn't come along offering Mat 12 MM plus per year.

Are there any out there who would/could?

The only one of Lee/Nelson/Eberle whose deal is a steal, is Nelson's imo. I really liked that signing and thought Nelson could have gotten $6m easily.
While I agree if Lou did not give Lee 7x7, then some other GM would have. Does not change my opinion that this contract that will not age well.

As for Eberle..he had a disappointing season and I did not expect a long line of bidders for him,willing to give him anything close to the $6m he had been making.


and any GM who give Mat Barzal Connor McDavid type $ deserves to be in cap hell.Holy overpayment.

 

[CREW99AW]

The argument I'd use is that the only way they can contend and bring in better players is if Barzal takes less money/fair money. We'll see though, I'm not really worried. Barzal didn't seem to like what Tavares did so I expect a little bit more of a straightforward process from him. You never know though.

I will do cartwheels if Barzal signs a reasonable, team friendly deal.

I think the part of the Tavares situation that Barzal did not like, is Tavares not being honest with the franchise and teammates. Not saying I am leaving. Got that feeling from Barzal and Ladd .During Tavares last season on LI, Ladd was asked about Tavares possibly leaving and dismissed the reporter's suggestion saying "we (his teammates) know Johnny"

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The only one of Lee/Nelson/Eberle whose deal is a steal, is Nelson's imo. I really liked that signing and thought Nelson could have gotten $6m easily.

I don't know if any of those deals are a steal, per se. I'm certainly fine with Nelson's - and he's continued to live up to it this season.

But I do think every deal is one said player would easily have gotten on the open market.

While I agree if Lou did not give Lee 7x7, then some other GM would have. Does not change my opinion that this contract that will not age well.

That opinion is shared by most, including yours truly. But Lou rightfully swung for the fences in being the highest bidder for Panarin. Our arch rival beat us out with a lesser offer. The result was that Lee got what he likely would have gotten from a big spender on the open market.

It's a game of chess and that' how it's played. You can't hold your captain on stand-by while you fish for his upgrade one summer after losing your previous captain, and still get to sign him to a deal that is less than what he'd get on the free market.

That simply must be understood by all involved.

And if Lee had walked as well, who does Lou grab to replace him? I don't remember any comparable options still available by the time Panarin was off the market.

As for Eberle..he had a disappointing season and I did not expect a long line of bidders for him,willing to give him anything close to the $6m he had been making.

I think we were a bit fortunate in that he had a down year last season. Hard to say what his playoffs would have meant to other bidders in light of some of the other seasons he's had along the way.

Again, if you let Eberle walk and then miss out on any of the possible UFA replacements, what then?

Just don't know if that risk would have been worth it.

Lou was kind of damned to at least keep the status quo, look for an upgrade or two, and keep an eye on the opportunities the team is going to need to offer its youngins over the next 2 seasons.

Lots of juggling.

and any GM who give Mat Barzal Connor McDavid type $ deserves to be in cap hell.Holy overpayment.

Whatever cap hell any supposed GM is willing to enter, what's really to stop Barzal's party from signing, say, an offer sheet valued at 10 million per for, say, 5 years?

If he likes the team (and thus, the destination) that gives him that handsome offer, then he can sign with them and either he goes there or the NYI have to match. He's in a no-lose situation, so to speak.

We all agree that the NYI have a handful of reasons to match, but life could be made very difficult for us, especially if Lou and ownership are facing an amount that they just haven't planned on having to accept.

This is why I recently mentioned that it might not be so outlandish to think there are sums out there that the NYI would not be willing to meet, especially if Lou and co. (and yes, I'm thinking the owners) feel strongly about an alternative plan, if fate forces their hand.

 

[CREW99AW]

I

It's a game of chess

Whatever cap hell any supposed GM is willing to enter, what's really to stop Barzal's party from signing, say, an offer sheet valued at 10 million per for, say, 5 years?

If he likes the team (and thus, the destination) that gives him that handsome offer, then he can sign with them and either he goes there or the NYI have to match. He's in a no-lose situation, so to speak.

We all agree that the NYI have a handful of reasons to match, but life could be made very difficult for us, especially if Lou and ownership are facing an amount that they just haven't planned on having to accept.

This is why I recently mentioned that it might not be so outlandish to think there are sums out there that the NYI would not be willing to meet, especially if Lou and co. (and yes, I'm thinking the owners) feel strongly about an alternative plan, if fate forces their hand.

I have not been impressed with the isles alternative plans....swing for Stone/Panarin/Hall and end up keeping Lee/Ebs then overpaying for Pags.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I have not been impressed with the isles alternative plans....swing for Stone/Panarin/Hall and end up keeping Lee/Ebs then overpaying for Pags.

What, if any, verification do we have that this team made offers for Stone and Hall?

The attempt to sign Panarin is the only one of those three who this team was openly and clearly after. And that was as a free agent.

This said, I'd have to think Isles fans would have to be very happy to hear about attempts, even if just rumored, of this team going after players of that caliber.

It hasn't always been like that around these parts.

I might also add that Lou went after one of the biggest trade deadline fish in Pageau - and got him. Then re-upped him for 6 years. A 27-year old at that.

Sure, he ain't in the caliber of the three you mention above, but he's not dog-food, and he was highly sought after. So, it's not like Lou can't get anything done when it comes to reeling in valued players.

 

[Costigan77]

What, if any, verification do we have that this team made offers for Stone and Hall?

The attempt to sign Panarin is the only one of those three who this team was openly and clearly after. And that was as a free agent.

This said, I'd have to think Isles fans would have to be very happy to hear about attempts, even if just rumored, of this team going after players of that caliber.

It hasn't always been like that around these parts.

I might also add that Lou went after one of the biggest trade deadline fish in Pageau - and got him. Then re-upped him for 6 years. A 27-year old at that.

Sure, he ain't in the caliber of the three you mention above, but he's not dog-food, and he was highly sought after. So, it's not like Lou can't get anything done when it comes to reeling in valued players.

I completely agree with everything.....except I think the Isles had a deal in principle in place for Stone, if he signed long term. I think their money did not match Vegas'

 

[Seph]

I completely agree with everything.....except I think the Isles had a deal in principle in place for Stone, if he signed long term. I think their money did not match Vegas'

Word at the time was that it had more to do with his past history with Kelly McCrimmon that made him choose Vegas. He said after the deal that if he had made it to July 1, Vegas would've been a top choice.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I completely agree with everything.....except I think the Isles had a deal in principle in place for Stone, if he signed long term. I think their money did not match Vegas'

I'd be curious to see who was saying that.

When the Stone trade took place, TSN immediately pointed out that Stone had - to be fair - let Ottawa know that he is DEFINITELY signing with Las Vegas in the summer, primarily to work again with his junior days mentor McCrimmon. His decision had already been made.

Vegas and Ottawa then got together on a deal that sent him there 3 months earlier. OTT got a nice juicy prospect and Vegas got the guy they were signing anyways a few months earlier for a playoff run.

So, it was a win-win situation for those two teams.

It was a "we don't even get to be part of the party" situation for the other 29 teams.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'd be curious to see who was saying that.

When the Stone trade took place, TSN immediately pointed out that Stone had - to be fair - let Ottawa know that he is DEFINITELY signing with Las Vegas in the summer, primarily to work again with his junior days mentor McCrimmon. His decision had already been made.

Vegas and Ottawa then got together on a deal that sent him there 3 months earlier. OTT got a nice juicy prospect and Vegas got the guy they were signing anyways a few months earlier for a playoff run.

So, it was a win-win situation for those two teams.

It was a "we don't even get to be part of the party" situation for the other 29 teams.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

In any case, Lou will no doubt do what's necessary in keeping Barzal as the cornerstone of this team - as long as some crazy GM doesn't come along offering Mat 12 MM plus per year.

Are there any out there who would/could?

Who knows. Most team owners and fans know about Barzal through highlight reels and his fastest man in hockey trophy. But we watch him every night and know he still has a lot of flaws.

Still, I believe the team would match seven times 10 or 11 million. Wouldn't really shock me if they matched seven times 12, but Lou would need some Pepto Bismol for that.

 

[PK Cronin]

New Q&A out with Lamoriello. He was asked if he'd match an offer sheet and he said the following:

It is our intention to not allow it to get to that point, but should that happen, the answer is yes.

Isles Inbox: Lou Lamoriello

 

[CREW99AW]

What, if any, verification do we have that this team made offers for Stone and Hall?

The attempt to sign Panarin is the only one of those three who this team was openly and clearly after. And that was as a free agent.

This said, I'd have to think Isles fans would have to be very happy to hear about attempts, even if just rumored, of this team going after players of that caliber.

It hasn't always been like that around these parts.

I might also add that Lou went after one of the biggest trade deadline fish in Pageau - and got him. Then re-upped him for 6 years. A 27-year old at that.

Sure, he ain't in the caliber of the three you mention above, but he's not dog-food, and he was highly sought after. So, it's not like Lou can't get anything done when it comes to reeling in valued players.

So you think that sources like LeBrun/Staple/ McKenzie/ Friedman/Dreger who reported over the last two seasons , about Lou's attempts to acquire Stone/Hall are bs reports and Lou needing goal scoring, did not attempt to acquire these goal scorers?

As for acquiring Pags,great.Wish he could have done so without overpaying with a 1st/2nd/ conditoonal 3rd.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

So you think that sources like LeBrun/Staple/ McKenzie/ Friedman/Dreger who reported over the last two seasons , about Lou's attempts to acquire Stone/Hall are bs reports and Lou needing goal scoring, did not attempt to acquire these goal scorers?

Have alllll these guys been reporting about "Lou's attempts" to get Stone or Hall?

The gentlemen you name above are very capable at looking at our team, seeing our incredible need for scoring, and then simply adding 1+1 on their own accord to achieve the chief goal of their jobs - create news, gain interest, views, clicks, etc.

Further, their "contacts" in the business are people straight FROM the other organizations who have every reason in the world to throw some team names out there for the sake of generating certain pressure points and hopefully up the prices on tradeable commodities.

Not a one of them has an inside track to Lamoriello.

Not a one of them!

And we all know how much value Lamoriello places on hush, hush confidentiality.

Counter-question:
Do you think that even Staple - arguably the closest journalist to this team - does anything more than gander about what Lamoriello is up to?

As for acquiring Pags,great.Wish he could have done so without overpaying with a 1st/2nd/ conditoonal 3rd.

Ahh, the old damned if you do, damned if you don't train of thought.

So, what exactly are you saying here? Did Lamoriello target a prized commodity and get him or didn't he?

Folks can't have their cake and eat it too - not just for the sake of seeing their own narrative heading down the toilet.

In any case, I'd be very happy to see that conditional 3rd go to Ottawa, because it would mean we had just won the Cup.

But let me attach your point above to the acquisition of Pageau.

How many of all these pundits - and I love reading and hearing from them all - were hammering out the news that Lamoriello was specifically targeting Pageau and was a front runner to get him? Where was all the rumoring in the weeks heading up to the deadline?

I might be wrong, but I recall that trade generally coming out of nowhere. BAM!

Of course, outside of "scoring", we were also sorely missing a 3rd line center. Something anyone in the hockey world could have aptly determined.

And we simply can't deny that Pageau was one of the biggest pieces available at this trade deadline.

Heck, considering he has the most goals on the team AND is your ideal 3rd line center, Lou basically got a guy that theoretically answers both needs - one entirely and one at least to a degree.

Like it or hate it, we have a six-year time frame to see how this works out.

 

[CREW99AW]

Have alllll these guys been reporting about "Lou's attempts" to get Stone or Hall?

The gentlemen you name above are very capable at looking at our team, seeing our incredible need for scoring, and then simply adding 1+1 on their own accord to achieve the chief goal of their jobs - create news, gain interest, views, clicks, etc.

Further, their "contacts" in the business are people straight FROM the other organizations who have every reason in the world to throw some team names out there for the sake of generating certain pressure points and hopefully up the prices on tradeable commodities.

Not a one of them has an inside track to Lamoriello.

Not a one of them!

And we all know how much value Lamoriello places on hush, hush confidentiality.

Counter-question:
Do you think that even Staple - arguably the closest journalist to this team - does anything more than gander about what Lamoriello is up to?



Ahh, the old damned if you do, damned if you don't train of thought.

So, what exactly are you saying here? Did Lamoriello target a prized commodity and get him or didn't he?

Folks can't have their cake and eat it too - not just for the sake of seeing their own narrative heading down the toilet.

In any case, I'd be very happy to see that conditional 3rd go to Ottawa, because it would mean we had just won the Cup.

But let me attach your point above to the acquisition of Pageau.

How many of all these pundits - and I love reading and hearing from them all - were hammering out the news that Lamoriello was specifically targeting Pageau and was a front runner to get him? Where was all the rumoring in the weeks heading up to the deadline?

I might be wrong, but I recall that trade generally coming out of nowhere. BAM!

Of course, outside of "scoring", we were also sorely missing a 3rd line center. Something anyone in the hockey world could have aptly determined.

And we simply can't deny that Pageau was one of the biggest pieces available at this trade deadline.

Heck, considering he has the most goals on the team AND is your ideal 3rd line center, Lou basically got a guy that theoretically answers both needs - one entirely and one at least to a degree.

Like it or hate it, we have a six-year time frame to see how this works out.

Jesus. Please stop with the nonsense that very credible sources who reported Lou pursued Hall/Stone trades are full of BS.
So if no trade occurs and the secretive Lou does not give a video interview,admitting he made a failed trade attempt,it is he? Fake news?

Gonna guzzle the Lou kool aide and believe Pags is the only player Lou attempted to acquire over the last 2 seasons?

As for Pags...glad you do not mind Lou overpaying. I do.