Rumor: Matheson Maybe? Horny - Hold On!

[Gurglesons]

So the solution to our bottom six providing zero offense in the playoffs is to remove a 20 goal guy and replace him with a 10 goal guy, and replace that 10 goal guy with a downgrade on the 4th line? Genius move, JR!

There are more moves to come obviously. I'm not going to judge them in a vacuum.

 

[Jacob]

If Matheson is putting up points, he'll be moveable, regardless of how bad he is defensively. Offensive d are severely overpriced around the league.

He doesn’t really put up points. Not at any level.

 

[Gurglesons]

Until you find a senile GM to step up and take on Justin Schultz's six year contract. Apparently, we just need to wait for Rutherford to get his next job to rid ourselves of JJ and Schultz. Anything is possible...

Matheson has been a much more versatile player in Florida than Schultz was in Edmonton. TBH, this looks like a simple case of change Matheson's usage and let him be the offensive driver on his pairing and we have the perfect RD to do that in Marino.

Also, Matheson was a decent enough two way D when he broke into the league.

Besides the contract this has Niskanen 2.0 all over it for me.

 

[SomeDude]

Why do I get this terrible feeling that JR sees Sceviour as a Rust replacement?

 

[Gurglesons]

He doesn’t really put up points. Not at any level.

What are you talking about? He's a top 15 ES goal scorer over the last three seasons. His comparables at ES in terms of goal production are OEL, Dumba, and Barrie.

 

[K Fleur]

Everybody should stop with the “This must mean JJ is gone”. That’s just hope poison.

 

[Pens x]

There are more moves to come obviously. I'm not going to judge them in a vacuum.

More moves to come is scary AF. You can absolutely grade these trades individually, and right now, JR did very poorly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He doesn’t really put up points. Not at any level.

But if he can put them up here is the point as a puck mover with more offensive support. Again, I'm not banking on him to turn into a PPQB, but if he's able to at least and not make a our top 6 get instantly neutered when he steps on the ice, he's gonna put up points.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

For me it is. We got a guy that’s a million bucks overpaid even in a good year which he didn’t have. Sceviour is someone you could find on waivers if not WB/S.


Would anyone here have even wanted Matheson at his current hit & term of he were hypothetically a UFA?

It's hard to say about Sceviour, it's been apparent the coaching staff does like veterans in those roles more often than rookies/younger players, I think Sceviour was just a throw in to balance the cap hits (somewhat) while also finding use for him as a ZAR injury replacement on the 4th line, he's just a safe 4th line player, nothing more, nothing less. A known commodity over an unknown that you'd be trying to figure out (I would have rather seen Lafferty used instead).

As for Matheson, all I can do is read about him and I'm not a fan, but I can see the potential if he does work out, but it's quite the gamble on a pretty ugly contract if it indeed doesn't work out.

 

[Gurglesons]

More moves to come is scary AF. You can absolutely grade these trades individually, and right now, JR did very poorly.

In what regard did he do very poorly? He got younger, he got faster, and he brought in better transitional play with Matheson and Kapanen over Schultz and Hornqvist which is what these deals are outside of the 1st and Hallander.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Matheson has been a much more versatile player in Florida than Schultz was in Edmonton. TBH, this looks like a simple case of change Matheson's usage and let him be the offensive driver on his pairing and we have the perfect RD to do that in Marino.

Also, Matheson was a decent enough two way D when he broke into the league.

Besides the contract this has Niskanen 2.0 all over it for me.

I think I've heard this story before. It not the player but the team he was on didn't [insert excuse]. Once [insert Penguins coach] gets ahold of him and coaches him up, he'll turn it around here.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think I've heard this story before. It not the player but the team he was on didn't [insert excuse]. Once [insert Penguins coach] gets ahold of him and coaches him up he'll turn it around.

When has this not been true over the past few years outside of JJ?

McCann, Pearson, Oleksiak, Pettersson, Marino, Zucker, Sheary, Sheahan, etc. All of these players have been very solid additions and then went on to get back to their upside on other teams.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why do I get this terrible feeling that JR sees Sceviour as a Rust replacement?

 

[violaswallet]

It's hard to say about Sceviour, it's been apparent the coaching staff does like veterans in those roles more often than rookies/younger players, I think Sceviour was just a throw in to balance the cap hits (somewhat) while also finding use for him as a ZAR injury replacement on the 4th line, he's just a safe 4th line player, nothing more, nothing less. A known commodity over an unknown that you'd be trying to figure out (I would have rather seen Lafferty used instead).

As for Matheson, all I can do is read about him and I'm not a fan, but I can see the potential if he does work out, but it's quite the gamble on a pretty ugly contract if it indeed doesn't work out.

Florida: Sceviour is good. Worth his cap hit for what he does You'll love him on the PK. Solid defensive forward.

My guess is that he is tossed in for what you said (although more for real cash say if Horn gets blow up)

 

[bambamcam4ever]

What are you talking about? He's a top 15 ES goal scorer over the last three seasons. His comparables at ES in terms of goal production are OEL, Dumba, and Barrie.

This is actually somewhat important. Not just the goals themselves, but when you have a player on the ice who is not a threat to score at all (#8) it allows the 5 opposing players to collapse on the forwards and kill an effective cycle.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Maybe I'm too old and skeptical to see the appeal of Hornqvist beyond him being a Penguin and earning two cups (which is plenty to love him for)! I just don't see how he pushed us any farther any of the other years that weren't amazing fairy tale B2B cup runs.

Well let's see. For starters he managed 25 goals, 26 assists in 64 games in 2014-15 under Mike flipping Johnston. That in itself is kind of amazing, in a season where most of our forwards were at career lows. We made the playoffs on the last day of the season, thanks to those contributions. Preserved the playoff streak.

Ok what else? Hornqvist was Malkin's linemate for a large portion of 2017-18, where Malkin had a resurgent year and got into the MVP conversation. Hornqvist scored 29 goals, 20 assists and let Malkin become the shooter all year. Malkin scored 42 goals and 98 points. We all know he's at his best when he's the trigger man.

From a tangible contribution standpoint, those are two good examples off the top of my head. But Hornqvist was far more than his numbers. He doesn't get credited for screens that create goals. No one tracks all the penalties he draws. And you can't quantify how much he's done for his teammates/coaches and their approach to their work.

 

[Pens x]

In what regard did he do very poorly? He got younger, he got faster, and he brought in better transitional play with Matheson and Kapanen over Schultz and Hornqvist which is what these deals are outside of the 1st and Hallander.

He acquired a cap dump for the 15th overall pick AND he threw in Hallinder for fun. Why are we throwing in a prospect to help Toronto’s cap issues? I hope Dubas sends JR a thank you card when they sign Pietrangelo.

Matheson has one of the worst contracts in the league. You can’t pay him this much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well let's see. For starters he managed 25 goals, 26 assists in 64 games in 2014-15 under Mike flipping Johnston. That in itself is kind of amazing, in a season where most of our forwards were at career lows. We made the playoffs on the last day of the season, thanks to those contributions. Preserved the playoff streak.

Ok what else? Hornqvist was Malkin's linemate for a large portion of 2017-18, where Malkin had a resurgent year and got into the MVP conversation. Hornqvist scored 29 goals, 20 assists and let Malkin become the shooter all year. Malkin scored 42 goals.

From a tangible contribution standpoint, those are two good examples off the top of my head. But Hornqvist was far more than his numbers. He doesn't get credited for screens that create goals. No one tracks all the penalties he draws. And you can't quantify how much he's done for his teammates/coaches and their approach to their work.

His penalty drawing is tracked and a solid thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

He acquired a cap dump for the 15th overall pick AND he threw in Hallinder for fun. Why are we throwing in a prospect to help Toronto’s cap issues? I hope Dubas sends JR a thank you card when they sign Pietrangelo.

Cap dumps of Kapanen's quality have received similar packages very frequently. Go look at what CHI got when they were selling of their pieces.

 

[MayorofWBS]

When has this not been true over the past few years outside of JJ?

McCann, Pearson, Oleksiak, Pettersson, Marino, Zucker, Sheary, Sheahan, etc. All of these players have been very solid additions and then went on to get back to their upside on other teams.

Oleksiak
Schultz (contract year good to sucker us into bigger contract)

 

[66-30-33]

edit nvm delete me.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oleksiak
Schultz (contract year good to sucker us into bigger contract)

Oleksiak was a solid bottom pairing D here and rebuilt his game to be a top four D when returned back to Dallas?

We won a cup with Schultz playing a pivotal role then he destroyed his body three consecutive years in a row. Not sure either of those prove your point.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is actually somewhat important. Not just the goals themselves, but when you have a player on the ice who is not a threat to score at all (#8) it allows the 5 opposing players to collapse on the forwards and kill an effective cycle.

For me going forward, the issue is the team needs to dump Pettersson and Johnson and find a solid right handed D for the 3rd pair, they couldn't have signed Riikola at his cap hit (even if small) to dick him around another year.

Dumoulin, Letang
Matheson, Marino
Riikola, veteran RD
Ruhwedel

I also don't seem much room to keep Dom Simon on this roster.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

His penalty drawing is tracked and a solid thing.

Yeah I know. But no one ever talks about it, making it irrelevant.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well let's see. For starters he managed 25 goals, 26 assists in 64 games in 2014-15 under Mike flipping Johnston. That in itself is kind of amazing, in a season where most of our forwards were at career lows. We made the playoffs on the last day of the season, thanks to those contributions. Preserved the playoff streak.

Ok what else? Hornqvist was Malkin's linemate for a large portion of 2017-18, where Malkin had a resurgent year and got into the MVP conversation. Hornqvist scored 29 goals, 20 assists and let Malkin become the shooter all year. Malkin scored 42 goals.

From a tangible contribution standpoint, those are two good examples off the top of my head. But Hornqvist was far more than his numbers. He doesn't get credited for screens that create goals. No one tracks all the penalties he draws. And you can't quantify how much he's done for his teammates/coaches and their approach to their work.

That's nice and all, but Kevin Stevens scored 40 goals without Mario Lemieux and we still traded him and I somehow got over it.

Hornqvist's intangibles lie mostly in the fanbase, I think. Which is fine, fans like to gravitate towards players they root for and idolize and overrate all the time. I do it too, it's cool. I'll talk your ear off about how Artie was the best LW in the game from 1989-1994. But as far as leading the team to anything since the last Cup, when has he led the team to anything in the postseason? When has he put on an amazing display in the postseason after signing his contract?

That's what I'm getting at. It's like Toews' intangibles-- at some point, if they're not actually getting results, then what's the point? If a player isn't performing in the post-season, what's the point of keeping them around? How can we even tell if the intangibles exist if they're not making any difference in the game? If Hornqvist draws penalties and then the power play (designed around him) fails to convert over and over and over, what's really being lost here?