Mat0109 Mock Draft

Discussion in 'Mock Drafts' started by Mat0109, Jun 16, 2004.

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  1. Mat0109

    Mat0109 Registered User

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    #1 WSH - Alexander Ovechkin
    #2 PIT - Evgeny Malkin
    #3 CHI - Andrew Ladd - They need a big offensive player!
    #4 CLB - Cameron Barker
    #5 PHO - Alexander Radulov
    #6 NYR - Rostislav Olesz
    #7 FLO - Ladislav Smid
    #8 CAR - Lauri Tukonen
    #9 ANA - Andrej Mesraros
    #10 ATL - Wojtek Wolski
    #11 LA - Marek Schwartz
    #12 MIN - Alvaro Montoya
    #13 BUF - Drew Stafford
    #14 EDM - Alexandre Picard
    #15 NSH - Robbie Schremp
    #16 NYI - Kyle Chipchura
    #17 STL - Enver Lisin
    #18 MTL - Johan Fransson
    #19 CGY - Devan Dubnyk
    #20 DAL - A.J. Thelen
    #21 COL - Dave Bolland
    #22 NJD - Lauri Korpikoski
    #23 OTT- Cory Schneider
    #24 NYR - Boris Valabik
    #25 EDM - Petteri Nokelainen
    #26 VAN - Travis Zajac
    #27 WSH- Jeff Schultz
    #28 SJ - Viktor Alexandrov
    #29 WSH- Roman Voloshenko
    #30 TB - David Schantz

    Talk about this draft :banana:
     
  2. Schremp, Thelen feel too low, Smid a little too high, Wolski a little too high, and again why does Minnesota need a first round goaltender? They seem pretty happy with Harding and could go with one in another round and be happy with that.
     
  3. Alex Kovalev

    Alex Kovalev Registered User

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    If Minnesota picks a goaltender or defensemen ill be the first to pm you ;)
     
  4. Safir*

    Safir* Guest

    Not impossible, but I feel that the Hawks will go with either Barker, Olesz or Tukonen

    To risky for the Coyotes and even Montoya would be a safer choice. Ladd or Tukonen might be avaiable around there pick.

    I don't think so. Thelen is more likely.

    If Thelen is still on the board. Don Waddell will waste little time to pick up. Another choice would be a center.

    I'm pretty sure that Florida, Anaheim or Atlanta will pick him.

    Isn't he a goalie? Dude the Senators have three good goaltending prospects in Emery, Thompson and Guard. I'm 100% sure that Muckler won't select a goalie in the first round.

    BTW I'll be shocked, if Wes O'Neill doesn't get picked in the first round.
     
  5. *smacks AK* It's a small chance but the Wild keep saying they are looking for another forward in this draft.
     
  6. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Best Player Available. By all accounts Montoya is in a lot of teams top 8. If he falls that far he might be the best available player by a decent margin.
     
  7. tripledekehockey

    tripledekehockey Registered User

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    i would look for the canes to nab thelan and then atlanta to grab smid (i see the panthers going after a forward -- schremp maybe??)
     
  8. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    It's true that Thelen is a little overrated on these boards compared to the various actual rankings but I really can't see him falling all the way to #20. Zero chance IMO.
     
  9. I don't like the BAP theory, just doesn't make any sense.

    Your team lacks a bunch of scoring, has a decent goaltender or two in the system, some good defensive prospects in the farm, and a good defensive coach. What you lack is goals, so what do you take? A goalie? WTF?

    By comparison Wild had 188 goals, tied for 23 worst in the league and yet had a sparkling 183 goals against to tie for the fourth best in the league...

    And we're getting maybe two goal scorers this year...
     
    Last edited by moderator : Jun 16, 2004
  10. s7ark

    s7ark RIP

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    General GM rule of thumb. Draft by BPA. Trade for need. If you draft a goalie and he turns out and you have two great propects then trade one for scoring if that is still your need at the time.

    You draft by BPA since you don't know your teams needs 4 years down the road for when this year's picks will likely be playing.
     
  11. jt2004

    jt2004 Registered User

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    So why choose a player that isn't as talented just because you need scoring? Your projecting these players 2-4 yrs down the road not just now.

    By your thinking you need offense and let's say for arguments sake you can choose between Patrick Roy who is by far the BPA or you can go with Rico Fata because he was a goal scorer in Jrs.

    I'm not a huge fan of choosing goaltenders in the 1st round just because every one of them I've ever coached or played with were just plain nuts :jump: , but if the Wild see Montoya as a potential Patty Roy I'm all over that. If Harding develops then you can trade your 2nd best for scoring help later.

    Just look at all of the old goalies in hockey right now. A couple of years from now Belfour, Joseph, Hasek among others will be retired and you can get scoring from a team who doesn't have a #1.
     
  12. Alouette_19

    Alouette_19 Registered User

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    I don't think that Thelen is overrated but if Andre Savard see him at the 18th spot the Habs will take him.

    But sorry Habs fans -- Thelen is top15 stuff :banghead:
    Same thing for Nashville with Schremp :banghead:
    Green and O'neill not in first round :eek:
     
  13. KH1

    KH1 Registered User

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    That pretty much sums up my feelings.
     
  14. Yes and most good goaltenders have been pulled out of later rounds. Right now the Wild need help with scoring and if Schremp or Thelen or Stafford is there I think they will pick them.

    When determining the BAP, you need to assess where your biggest needs are...
     
  15. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Not at all. That's why they call it BPA.

    In fact I've got quotes from your scouts and GM which totally contradict your line of thinking.

    "You draft the player. You never draft for position," says Lapointe. "If you are drafting 15th or 25th, you try to get the best player available and if you feel like there are three guys who are almost the same now you might chose by position. But most of the times it is how skilled the player is."

    http://www.nhl.com/futures/2004draft/wide_open061104.html

    I've read similar quotes at least a few times in the past few days.

    "You have always said that Boston’s draft philosophy is to take the best player available early on"

    http://www.hockeyjournal.com/bruins/200405/bradley18.html

    Doug Maclean also said it in an interview I listened to...

    http://www.1460thefan.com/tf.php?story=radiohio/1460thefan/2004newfan/on-demand-listening.php#

    "Q: What are some of the needs the team has right now that you would like to alleviate in the 2004 Draft?
    A: When we look at needs, we first look at the way the game is being played now and what the trends are. If you look at just your particular club, you’re never quite sure where you’re going to be in three or four years with the personnel you have, so that would be a dangerous way to look at it."

    http://www.wild.com/team/008/661/

    “One of the mistakes you can do is try to be too much of an architect. And I think the best thing is to take the best player,†he says. “A lot of these players do not end up on the team which drafted them. So that is when the asset thing becomes more important. You may not need a goalie but if he is the best player you take him because you know someone will need a goalie."

    http://www.wild.com/history/008/438/index.html

    "HF: The Kings have always said they take the best player available no matter what the case. With the rebuilt prospect pool and farm system are you starting to look to fill certain positions or still going with the best player available philosophy?

    AM: We are still taking the best player available with the exception of the over-age Europeans we have drafted. Those by and large have worked out. Now that we have much more organizational depth we focus on the player that is going to be the best for the organization in the long term even if it is a position we are deep in, it might be an asset that can be traded down the line."

    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=6947&mode=threaded&order=0

    Looks like Wild scout Guy Lapointe, Wild head scout Tom Thompson and Wild GM Risebrough ALL disagree with you. Not sure why you're so stubborn on this issue when your own team clearly is looking to take the best player available regardless of need.
     
  16. Kvashinator12

    Kvashinator12 Registered User

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    The Isles will not pick Chipchura
     
  17. but if you look at the quote...

    "When we look at needs, we first look at the way the game is being played now and what the trends are. If you look at just your particular club, you’re never quite sure where you’re going to be in three or four years with the personnel you have, so that would be a dangerous way to look at it."

    And then

    "Pure offensive skill is harder to find. In particular, offensive skill that can work into the way we want to play, which is up-tempo and quick. That would be forwards who can make plays and defensemen who can add something from the point. The ability to shoot is more important than it’s ever been because there’s less opportunity for all of a sudden a guy being left open. A breakaway, a three-on-one - these things are happening very seldom now. The ability to shoot when the opportunity presents itself is a huge factor."

    Also if you read Risebrough's end of the year speech (I'm trying to find it) the Wild are still looking for offensively gifted players either through the draft or through FA.

    The Wild have differed from other organizations because they load up on waiver wire players and sign a few key free agents here and there.

    I'm being stubborn because people look at two things within the Wild, their history of drafting and then the HF page, which is completely wrong.

    By saying the best player avaliable, why isn't a team like New York Rangers going to take Marek Schwarz over Rostislav Olesz, because you can make arguments that Schwarz is the best player on the board at the time...

    Or the Atlanta Thrashers taking Marek Schwarz if Stafford is on the board? Why don't they take Schwarz if he's on the board because from looking at it, Schwarz is better than Stafford.

    Or how about Buffalo? Why don't they take Montoya or Ottawa take Schneider if they are the BAP?

    Because it doesn't make any sense.

    The Wild have been a very strong defensive team, you plug in any decent defensive player (Roloson has been a God send though) and he's going to look better than he is. Look at Henry, Mitchell, Zyuzin, Kuba, these guys were nothing until they came to Minnesota.

    The Wild are lacking a huge bang up front with Gaborik being inconsistant and O'Sullivan haven't been proven at the NHL level.

    While our goals aren't going to go way up, we are still trying to find a 30-40 goal scorer to compliment Gaborik or a PF to open up space for Gaborik and/or O'Sullivan and compliment them.

    We have a good defensive team but a very poor offensive team with little to no depth on wings.

    You think Boogaard, Veilleux, Rooneem, Melanson are going to score 40 goals in the NHL? Foy (this one is hard but I'd say he's a 20 goal scorer), Irmen, Wanvig, and Erickson?

    Down the middle (and I know they can be converted to wings) we are strong but we have good playmakers and maybe one or two good goalscorers in O'Sullivan and Wallin.

    Bouchard and Koivu are playmakers, Courchaine has to go to Houston to prove anything and then you got Cavosie, Cavanaugh, and Cullen who are basically depth guys. Kolusz too...
     
  18. Why though? He's the BPA
     
  19. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    It makes plenty of sense to me. I could see any of those teams taking the goalies if they fell to them and the teams thought really highly of them.

    I tend to think both goalies will go quite high (top 10) whether by the teams currently in the top 10 or teams trading up to get them. Not sure you can rule out ANY of those teams from picking a goalie.

    That's what BPA is about. I've learned in my time of watching the draft to expect the unexpected. You seem to think you can count on various things happening and I think that's not true.
     
  20. Mat0109

    Mat0109 Registered User

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    Minnesota don't have young goaltender. They have Fernandez who is RFA and Dwayne Roloson is 36! Josh Harding is the only young goalie of the Wild!
     
  21. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    You still don't seem to get it. You don't draft for immediate need. Why? Because your needs will change drastically over a two to three year period and it generally takes prospects 4-6 years to make an impact. Why do you not acknowledge this point? I've certainly seen this in time watching the Flames. One year you might have a glaring, glaring need for scoring wingers. BOOM, a couple trades later and an unexpected guy steps up and it could not be a need anymore but you could have opened up a new need by making those trades. Just because the Wild haven't pulled many blockbusters doesn't mean that Risebrough won't make a trade that seriously changes the depth of the organization.

    You trade to fill immediate needs. If the Wild need scorers then they should deal to get them. And one good way to get more assets to deal with is to pick the best player available.

    Of course your GM, scout and head scout have all said this but for some reason you seem to be selectively reading only about half of what they say or reading too much into half of what they say and ignoring the rest. Why? I'm baffled.

    Almost seems like you see a sentence or two that supports your point and you agree with and then you ignore the spirit and the entirety of what they've said. How can you dispute the quotes I've provided? It's ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2004
  22. Because FDW, if you keep reading for the most part of what Riser keeps saying about the organization, it's the lack of offensive players with in the system...

    The problem is you used a couple of the lists Q and As out there and then came to your conclusion.

    I'm not disputing that if guys like Radulov, Stafford, Thelen don't fall to us that we aren't getting a goaltender but if they do, the Wild will most likely pick one of them.

    The other thing is that the Wild usually have had a clear record of signing and bringing their first round draft pick on the team, all except for Koivu.

    The other thing FDW you don't seem to understand is that Thompson has said in one of his interviews they aren't looking for prospects later then now. It's a stupid thing but that's what he said.

    I am also not disputing we are taking a FEW goaltenders this year but it's going to be in later rounds...We aren't going to pass up on offensive whiz Robbie Schremp, a PF native in Drew Stafford, or sniper Alexander Picard (though I rather see Korpikoski come over)
     
    Last edited by moderator : Jun 16, 2004
  23. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    And you must have missed the part where they said best player available early on in the draft. If you have an organizational need for forwards then what you do is make 2/3 of your mid-later round picks be forwards. You don't disregard goalies and defensemen in the first if your scouting staff ranks them higher than the available forwards. How can you not understand this point?

    Actually that's exactly what I'm accusing YOU of.

    I think you're reading a little too much into that trend.

    In a shallower draft then last year the chance of grabbing a guy at #12 who's going to step in is slim IMO. Especially if your team is looking to improve and make the playoffs. Young players make mistakes and mistakes cost you games. I guess if you want to be a perpetually building team...

    Your team definitely will pass over those guys if they liked another player better.

    Funny how you've acknowledged your scouting staff is looking at 18 guys for the #12 pick. Lemme guess, 18 forwards according to you?!?!?

    I don't know how you can read those quotes by your own scout and GM and completely disregard what they are saying. I'm not sure they could have said it any more clearly than they have and yet you still seem to only read what you want to hear.
     
  24. All right one last time...

    I understand what your saying but I'm hearing two different things from the Wild about the draft (and I assume they got have Montoya, Thelen, and Schwarz in the top 18 of their picks but more at the bottom as a last ditch resort)...

    But as I said and you haven't have answered yet.

    Why doesn't Atlanta pick Schwarz if he drops? He is suppose to be what? A top 10 prospect or something? Or why doesn't a team like Calgary pick a player like Green or Valabik if they drop?
     
  25. Flames Draft Watcher

    Flames Draft Watcher Registered User

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    Go back and read my posts then, I definitely answered that.

    Wouldn't surprise me at all if ATL picked a goalie because he was the best available player. Personally I think it more realistic they trade down a couple slots so someone else can pick him but if they can't then they should definitely take him.

    As for Calgary, Green is on my short list. He definitely strikes me as a Sutter/Button (Tod Button our head scout) type of pick. Korpikoski, Green, Bolland all seem like Sutter types. We won't be picking by position, if a defensemen is the best left we'll definitely take another one.

    You really seem to be stubborn.
     
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