Beyonder91
RASMUS
I've now realized your thread/posts are just jokes. My apologies... I won't post anything serious again.
Marner's Playoffs
- Thread starter saffronleaf
- Start date
I've now realized your thread/posts are just jokes. My apologies... I won't post anything serious again.
BAM
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- Nov 21, 2016
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One plays with a franchise center and the other plays with 2 middle 6 wingers...Context is your friend.
If you look at how his stride and edgework was, it was vastly different in the second half of the series. I'm not taking anything away from Boston, they played a good defensive system against him, but his skating just seemed off and it started after that block on the inside of the boot.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
BAM
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Good thing there's 7 games in the series to look at. Do the Leafs even win game 5 if Matthews doesn't score there?
diceman934
Help is on the way.
BAM
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Like I said, one plays with a franchise center and the other plays with 2 middle 6 wingers.
The fact that some Leaf fans expect Matthews to outproduce a line with our 2nd and 3rd best players on it speaks to his talent. Matthews was on pace for 100+ points most of the year with Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson. What would have happened if he has Nylander the whole year.
Hyman-Tavares-Marner should outproduce Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
A more comparable line to Tavares' line is Johnsson/Kappy-Matthews-Nylander.
Duffman955
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ULF_55
Moderator
That is harsh.
He was okay offensively in a game.
He was okay defensively in a couple games.
But bottom line he was overmatched, which isn't a good thing.
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Someone else mentioned this already. Hyman is a difference maker, but not in the right way.
We all speculate what happened with Matthews and Babcock last year, some pointing out that Matthews probably said he didnt want to play with Hyman anymore. Babcock loves Zach as if he gave birth to him personally.
How does one expect to matchup against the leagues best line with a neutered line. I really dont care what "intangibles" that Babcock believe Hyman brings to the team, it is comparable to playing Tie Domi with Mats Sundin (which was awful to watch btw).
You are essentially removing a threat from 1/3 of the ice and limiting the options of your best passer. Is there actually anybody here who believe Zach Hyman is a 1st or even a second line quality player. 1 point in the entire playoffs, and 41 points playing beside 94 and 88 point players. How is that acceptable? Does anybody outside of Babcock believe Tavares and Marner wouldnt have achieved those points without Hyman? How about the other way around? yeah
We all speculate what happened with Matthews and Babcock last year, some pointing out that Matthews probably said he didnt want to play with Hyman anymore. Babcock loves Zach as if he gave birth to him personally.
How does one expect to matchup against the leagues best line with a neutered line. I really dont care what "intangibles" that Babcock believe Hyman brings to the team, it is comparable to playing Tie Domi with Mats Sundin (which was awful to watch btw).
You are essentially removing a threat from 1/3 of the ice and limiting the options of your best passer. Is there actually anybody here who believe Zach Hyman is a 1st or even a second line quality player. 1 point in the entire playoffs, and 41 points playing beside 94 and 88 point players. How is that acceptable? Does anybody outside of Babcock believe Tavares and Marner wouldnt have achieved those points without Hyman? How about the other way around? yeah
saffronleaf
Registered User
Not My Tempo
Registered User
I think he was definitely injured. No where near the reason Marner wasn't Marner though
saffronleaf
Registered User
Not My Tempo
Registered User
I assume a lot of that is just due to empty nets. At 5v5 Marner was 3 GF and 5GA
Sweet Leaf
Registered User
Fans keep trying to talk about how Matthews has good or better advanced metrics against Bergeron this series.
Lol.
All of Matthews minutes against Bergeron were advantageous in an attempt to catch a tired Bergeron line against fresh troops. They would come on against them after the Bergeron line had already been going for 30 seconds against Tavares/Marner.
Go watch the first shift of yesterday's game. IE TavaresMarner starts against Bergeron. Get pressure. Bergeron ices it. It's the 19:27 mark of the first period. Here comes the Matthews line! Offensive zone face-off against a tired Bergeron line who had played almost a full shift already.
Advanced stats don't tell you these things. Matthews was only getting Bergeron on second half of shifts and icings and otherwise advantageous situations. Tavares/Marner did all the heavy lifting.
edited to add:
That said I agree Marner was disappointing because i expect him to be good enough to be in a shut down role and still create offence.
JT was doing that. He was getting SOG. He was creating chances for himself and his teammates. Marner OTOH had his offence dry up big time. No chances. No pucks to the net.
Mess
Global Moderator
In the 7 game series Marner never recorded a single 5v5 assist and only 1 ES point when he scored in game #1.
In games 4,5 and 6 combined he managed just 1 shot total on net in those 3 games.
Those are not something you would expect from someone coming off a 94 point regular season.
Wonder if his playoff performance weakens his bargaining position on his next contract?
In games 4,5 and 6 combined he managed just 1 shot total on net in those 3 games.
Those are not something you would expect from someone coming off a 94 point regular season.
Wonder if his playoff performance weakens his bargaining position on his next contract?
If the Leafs won the series, you will be praising Babs for turning Marner into a 200ft beast of a player.
I think that is a kinda childish statement that probably says more about you than those posters. Pre this season I thought they were on level with each other. Clearly now Marner is a better player. But with that said, Nylander gets alot of critisism that is sometimes uncalled for. The critisism regarding Marner in this series is for me just, we all expected more from him.
Tak7
Registered User
I thought Hymand had a terrific season, and a good playoff series - from game 5 onwards, his effectiveness was reduced due to health, but nobody should be hanging this on Hyman. He gave everything for this team, again.
saffronleaf
Registered User
Wow, 1 shot in the last 3 games. That's not good.
But have you considered the intangibles he brings to the team with his youthful exuberance?
Notsince67
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Marner will again have more points than anyone next year (third year) and the discussion among some will stay the same.
AreBe
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Lousy no good speedster, high skill European! Except he is Canadian, eh?
Imagine the vitriol toward him and John Tavares if they were Swedish or Russian, we'd yell at them lots.
If someone offer sheeted him and we get 4 consecutive first round draft picks, then, we can assume it is an incredibly badly run team with a fool for a GM, we'd have to consider having him walk, rather than having to him pay
Not kidding- 4 consecutive 1st round picks. Such team is in a downward spiral pulling something stupid like that off. It's such an incredibly stupid thing to do- to give up consecutive first round picks that the NBA has a rule against it. "At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985.[7] The NBA thereafter instituted the "Stepien Rule," which states that a team (usually) cannot trade its first-round pick in consecutive years." Ted Stepien - Wikipedia Just imagine, sad sack Edmonton, giving us 4 consecutive first overall picks. Imagine. Imagine the story. Imagine the plots.
Easy to see now. Take the Tavares pass away and Marner is done. His shot doesn’t scare NHL goalies. All Boston did was stay on JT.
67Leafs67
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I don't know if I would call it disappointing.
In some ways, he exceeded expectations. The way his defensive game improved leaps and bounds this year showed in how he shut down the Bergeron line. A large part of this was his neutral zone play/active stick & positioning. I also thought that on our relatively crappy PK, he was one of the better players. From my perspective, Hyman was too slow (being injured), and Hainsey & Zaitsev were too static, and those were the bigger problems, but Marner looked good (scored a shorty in Game 1).
But in other ways, he was disappointing for sure, but I think it has less to do with him, and more with his usage. We expect Marner to score points, and outside the first game he had only 2 points in 6 games, right? That's not awesome. The biggest disappointment for me is that he didn't produce on the PP, where we really needed him. At even strength, I think it's not his fault he didn't score more, because his line was deployed in order to shut down other team's top lines.
However, I would have liked to see him & JT take advantage of their few shifts per game against other lines, where they routinely got caved in, instead of dominating. That is where they should've produced more offense.
In some ways, he exceeded expectations. The way his defensive game improved leaps and bounds this year showed in how he shut down the Bergeron line. A large part of this was his neutral zone play/active stick & positioning. I also thought that on our relatively crappy PK, he was one of the better players. From my perspective, Hyman was too slow (being injured), and Hainsey & Zaitsev were too static, and those were the bigger problems, but Marner looked good (scored a shorty in Game 1).
But in other ways, he was disappointing for sure, but I think it has less to do with him, and more with his usage. We expect Marner to score points, and outside the first game he had only 2 points in 6 games, right? That's not awesome. The biggest disappointment for me is that he didn't produce on the PP, where we really needed him. At even strength, I think it's not his fault he didn't score more, because his line was deployed in order to shut down other team's top lines.
However, I would have liked to see him & JT take advantage of their few shifts per game against other lines, where they routinely got caved in, instead of dominating. That is where they should've produced more offense.
