Marner vs Tkachuk

[FerklundCGY]

Tkachuk's advanced metrics are and will always be miles better than Marner's.

The only thing Marner has on Tkachuk is skating. Tkachuk's skill and playmaking abilities are so incredibly underrated it's actually hilarious.

Even if Tkachuk finishes with 10 less points than Marner a season, the fact he's better at basically everything else more than closes that gap.

And let's not even try to compare Nylander to Tkachuk. That's an insult to Tkachuk

 

[Pyrophorus]

And let's not even try to compare Nylander to Tkachuk. That's an insult to Tkachuk

Maybe he should be better than Nylander in something then.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

[mod]

Marner will quietly get 150 points, win 5 selkes in a row, and even transition to defense for a year and win the Norris. I can make things up too, doesn't mean anything

 

[Volica]

Marner will quietly get 150 points, win 5 selkes in a row, and even transition to defense for a year and win the Norris. I can make things up too, doesn't mean anything

Consdering Tkachuk is already an elite defensive player and elite possession player... and over PPG at this time... Not really making anything up .

Keep up kid.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Consdering Tkachuk is already an elite defensive player and elite possession player... and over PPG at this time... Not really making anything up .

Keep up kid.

cool, I guess we can call Marner a ~110 point caliber player now then. he's kept the pace up this far

 

[Volica]

cool, I guess we can call Marner a 110 point caliber player now then. he's kept the pace up this far

f*** man, you guys already call Matthews a 90+ point PPG+ centre, so may as well keep the good times rolling.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

**** man, you guys already call Matthews a 90+ point PPG+ centre, so may as well keep the good times rolling.

strong argument. you can call Tkachuk whatever you want after a good 10 games because of Leafs fans

 

[Volica]

strong argument. you can call Tkachuk whatever you want after a good 10 games because of Leafs fans

I mean, we've been saying this about Matt for the past year, this isn't something new about the kid. He was pacing 60 points with his linemates shooting career low % and trying to play through injury . My real argument is you; among other posters are clueless in terms of actually watching Flames hockey and having an opinion, but similar to assholes, everyone seems to have one. I mean, I've seen some absolute beauty posts on this thread alone so far. Ones that have you thinking 'ah, you've seen him play twice a year.'

You should probably stick to what you know. Is Leafs Lunch over or something? Is the 2019 parade route fully mapped out yet? Is there a Matthews vs McDavid thread you can jump in somewhere?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I mean, we've been saying this about Matt for the past year, this isn't something new about the kid. He was pacing 60 points with his linemates shooting career low % and trying to play through injury . My real argument is you; among other posters are clueless in terms of actually watching Flames hockey and having an opinion, but similar to *******s, everyone seems to have one. I mean, I've seen some absolute beauty posts on this thread alone so far. Ones that have you thinking 'ah, you've seen him play twice a year.'

You should probably stick to what you know. Is Leafs Lunch over or something? Is the 2019 parade route fully mapped out yet? Is there a Matthews vs McDavid thread you can jump in somewhere?

can you point to what specifically you disagree with about my analysis here?

 

[Holymakinaw]

LOL. Can't take it that their guy is not as good. Too funny.

 

[Volica]

can you point to what specifically you disagree with about my analysis here?

I can make things up too, doesn't mean anything

Essentially, you're under the impression that I'm reaching in my analysis. Which I'm not.
Not sure how many threads you have to look like Sonny Liston before you just stop. But you do you man.

 

[Volica]

LOL. Can't take it that their guy is not as good. Too funny.

I don't think anyone has an issue with someone liking their own guy.
I get it. What folks, like myself, don't like is blatant repugery. And there's been a lot of that.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Essentially, you're under the impression that I'm reaching in my analysis. Which I'm not.
Not sure how many threads you have to look like Sonny Liston before you just stop. But you do you man.

you are vastly overvaluing his offensive production so far this year. I'm not sure why you can't admit that. I'd say the same thing to Leafs fans who think Marner will flirt with 110 points this year

 

[Pyrophorus]

Considering the fact that Leafs fans still think Nylander's a superior player than Tkachuk, while having near the exact production rates and having Matt Tkachuk do just about everything else better;

Because the numbers say so, offensively and defensively.
What does he do better? Hit? Drive to the net? Take PIMs?

Matty will quietly go PPG+, be an elite shutdown player, a possession monster but will still be an inferior player.

Has to do it first.

 

[elitepete]

Tkachuk easily

 

[Volica]

you are vastly overvaluing his offensive production so far this year. I'm not sure why you can't admit that. I'd say the same thing to Leafs fans who think Marner will flirt with 110 points this year

I'm not evaluating his production based on this year, I'm saying that it was a trend that he continued from last year. If you followed along. This isn't some major surprise for Flames fans as you make it out to be, oddly enough.

Like, the guy's only in year 3 of his career, and went from pacing 50 points as a rookie, to 60 points as a sophomore; and those 60 points were on his back; as he didn't get PP1 minutes until 40-50 games into the season (he got injured around game... 65ish), and all along Frolik and Backlund struggling with their shooting (Backlund a career low outside an injury plagued 22 year old season, and Frolik the worst shooting he's had since he was 23).

I'm not basing it on Matt's 14 in 13 or 13 in 12, whatever he has, I'm basing on that's how a lot of us feel his natural progression will go in his career and he's just proving us right, right now.

My issue with your argument, like, it'd essentially be me telling Florida Panthers fans what I think of Trochek. I don't know a f***ing thing about the Panthers, so why would I flip out when they call Trochek a really good 1B/2C type centre? Even if they let's say compare him to Monahan? All I can do is prove my point, not make these comparisons when I'm clueless. When you don't know something, just move on. You think your player's awesome, that's great. Say he's awesome. Don't make these claims like this thread has seen "they're in two completely different categories of players." "Marner is vastly better defensively." "Marner AINEC!!!"

 

[Volica]

Because the numbers say so, offensively and defensively.
What does he do better? Hit? Drive to the net? Take PIMs?

You mean:

Tkachuk having a career .71 PPG rate, Nylander at 0.73 (identical production essentially).
Tkachuk having superior primary point rates. More a significantly high P/60 rate (I know Leafs fans LOVE this stat)
Tkachuk having a higher relative goal expectancy over Nylander (by 4 points, so not a small margin), another stat Leafs fans love.
Tkachuk having some of the best possession numbers in the NHL. Period (relative stats over 5% on Nylander)
Tkachuk having worse quality of teammates, while having superior competition to Nylander.
Tkachuk being a positive Goals forward player over Nylander, while having tougher assignments and worse linemates comparably.

So which numbers exactly tell what? I'm asking? You have at worst the same offensive end (Nylander is also D+2 older than Matt), and a much different defensive story being played out.

 

[Flameshomer]

Would really love to see this poll untainted by fan bases. I clearly would pick Matty Tkachuk. It seems to me that leafs fans have not been following the flames this season- Matt has been our best player by a healthy amount.

 

[Pyrophorus]

You mean:

Tkachuk having a career .71 PPG rate, Nylander at 0.73 (identical production essentially).
Tkachuk having superior primary point rates. More a significantly high P/60 rate (I know Leafs fans LOVE this stat)
Tkachuk having a higher relative goal expectancy over Nylander (by 4 points, so not a small margin), another stat Leafs fans love.
Tkachuk having some of the best possession numbers in the NHL. Period (relative stats over 5% on Nylander)
Tkachuk having worse quality of teammates, while having superior competition to Nylander.
Tkachuk being a positive Goals forward player over Nylander, while having tougher assignments and worse linemates comparably.

So which numbers exactly tell what? I'm asking? You have at worst the same offensive end (Nylander is also D+2 older than Matt), and a much different defensive story being played out.

Goals , Assists, Points, Neutral zone takeways

 

[Tkachuky]

Would really love to see this poll untainted by fan bases. I clearly would pick Matty Tkachuk. It seems to me that leafs fans have not been following the flames this season- Matt has been our best player by a healthy amount.

Gio and Lindholm have been better but yeah..

 

[Kelly]

Tkachuk's advanced metrics are and will always be miles better than Marner's.

The only thing Marner has on Tkachuk is skating. Tkachuk's skill and playmaking abilities are so incredibly underrated it's actually hilarious.

Even if Tkachuk finishes with 10 less points than Marner a season, the fact he's better at basically everything else more than closes that gap.

And let's not even try to compare Nylander to Tkachuk. That's an insult to Tkachuk

Wait, hold up.

You think Tkachuk is a better passer than Marner?

Bwahahaha, and then you have Flame fans whining that "Leaf fans don't watch their players".

Seriously, Tkachuk is good, and I would definitely take him over Nylander, but in no way shape or form is he a better passer or offensive weapon than Marner. Like, come on.

 

[PsYcNeT]

So do Drew Doughty and Karl Alzner. It doesn’t mean they’re in the same league though.

This makes no sense. They either play in the same league or they don't. That's literally the colloquialism.

 

[koyvoo]

This makes no sense. They either play in the same league or they don't. That's literally the colloquialism.

Have you ever heard someone say “Led Zeppelin isn’t in the same league as the Beatles” or vice versa. Or some say “rebook isn’t in the same league as Nike” or thinkers like me that?

It’s “league” in that sense. In the English language, and in talks of comparisons, it’s an extremely popular (universal) way to use the word.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Wait, hold up.

You think Tkachuk is a better passer than Marner?

Bwahahaha, and then you have Flame fans whining that "Leaf fans don't watch their players".

Seriously, Tkachuk is good, and I would definitely take him over Nylander, but in no way shape or form is he a better passer or offensive weapon than Marner. Like, come on.

Tkachuk has more assists than Matthews... way less PP time and less support

 

[super6646]

Btw, for Leafs fans saying hfboards is bias.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/matthew-tkachuk-or-mitchell-marner.2446079/

Was 56-44 just a few months ago. So yes, there is such a thing as samples lol.