Proposal: Marner trade ideas

poolparty98

Registered User
Aug 6, 2017
500
231
LOL. Love how people phrase things certain ways to to try to make their point. While technically correct, it is misleading at best.

Heading into 5th season. True, but why not just say he has only 4 NHL season?
Has exactly 1 season over 70 points. True, but:
1) He has also had a 69 point season.
2) His "1 season over 70 points" is 94 points. It's substantially over 70 points.
3) Last season, he had 67 points in 59 games and would have easily been over 70 points if not for the Coronovirus.

Let me rephrase it differently, while still being factually correct:

"With only 4 seasons under his belt, he averages 23 goals / 80 point per 82 games through his career, has a 94 point season while only 21/22 years old, and was on pace for 93 points this past season, which was shortened by the Coronovirus (and injury). Over the past 2 seasons, he's 12th in the NHL among forwards in Points/game over, ahead of guys like Matthews, Eichel, Rantanen, Point, Bergeron, Ovechkin, Gaudreau, etc..."



Nonesense. Lucic's contract was tradeable, so any contract is tradeable. If the Leafs tried trading Marner, there would be more than a few teams that would try and trade for him. I'm not saying the contract is some sort of bargain. IMO, it is too high, but not so high that teams still won't want him.


Pre covid, you might be able to move him, the way market is now, no chance. IMO. I like him as a player and there would be no need to trade him, hes the least of TML problems.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,174
97,101
Pre covid, you might be able to move him, the way market is now, no chance. IMO. I like him as a player and there would be no need to trade him, hes the least of TML problems.
But the Leafs aren’t trying to, nor do they want to move him right now. So you are right, there’s no chance, but it’s because Toronto isn’t offering him.
 

hmc1987

Registered User
Jun 2, 2019
1,378
570
Do you think people on 53 point seasons command what people on 90+ point seasons do? A common fallacy on HF is pretending that people's production post contract signing has bearing on what they signed for at the time. It's completely non-sensical. When Lou signed Rielly and Kadri, they got market value based on their production to date. A couple years later said deals looked great. He never would have been able to sign Rielly to said deal had he been coming off his 70 point season. Really not difficult to understand.

I dont know why so many TML get offended when people suggest Marner is overpaid.

Would you take MacKinnon over Marner? Yes. And its about $5m AAV cheaper.

Would also take Draisatl, Kucherov, Pastranak, Eichel, Point, Barzal, and Connor simply because their contracts are better and all of these players are as good or better than Marner.

Marner is a GOOD player. He'll be GREAT if he continues, but hes overpaid by about ~$1.5-2. Still a good player...just not a fan of the contract.

TML should do well this season. They added GRIT and LEADERSHIP which was desperately needed. I see ECF for TML
 

hmc1987

Registered User
Jun 2, 2019
1,378
570
name one guy who already had 94pts on their resume that got significantly less that marner, not including 2-3 year bridge guys)

yeah you cant can you


but but mackinnon gets 6.3 (dude was a 50-60pt guy)
Pasta gets less than 7 (dude was a 75pt guy)

Every guy that got a Bridge deal is going to earn LESS than Marner in their next deal (Pastranak, etc.).

Pasta is also Top 5 in goals past 3 years which is MORE valuable than Marner and his inflated PP points
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,730
6,189
The issue with with Marner...and Matthews deals have been the term. Out of the top 20 cap hits in the entire league, only 2 players did not sign for 7 or 8 years....Marner and Matthews. That's where Judas messed up.
on the other hand once they are considered cap dumps, the lesser term will make them easier to move. :sarcasm:
edit: also corrected your typo. :naughty:
 

Petrus

Registered User
Jan 5, 2017
3,126
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Bay Street
Every guy that got a Bridge deal is going to earn LESS than Marner in their next deal (Pastranak, etc.).

Pasta is also Top 5 in goals past 3 years which is MORE valuable than Marner and his inflated PP points

Marner was #3 ES Assist and #6 ES points in 2018 -2019. In 2019-2020 he was #14 om ES Assist and #33 EP points. In addition, the leafs are generally bottom 10 in PP opportunities the last 3 seasons.
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
6,029
I dont know why so many TML get offended when people suggest Marner is overpaid.

Would you take MacKinnon over Marner? Yes. And its about $5m AAV cheaper.

Would also take Draisatl, Kucherov, Pastranak, Eichel, Point, Barzal, and Connor simply because their contracts are better and all of these players are as good or better than Marner.

Marner is a GOOD player. He'll be GREAT if he continues, but hes overpaid by about ~$1.5-2. Still a good player...just not a fan of the contract.

TML should do well this season. They added GRIT and LEADERSHIP which was desperately needed. I see ECF for TML

It's probably because you don't get it. You assume people are "offended at the notion Marner is overpaid" while clearly overlooking the exact point that was made to you, which is that most of the contracts pointed out were signed when said players had showed but a tiny fraction of what Marner did.

Would you take MacKinnon over Marner? Today, sure. How would you rate a 52 point player with a career high of 63 versus a 94 point player at the same age? How would you reimburse him? Are you also going with the HF mantra that apparently only Leaf players might not have another gear in their development, so what you've seen is what you get?
 

hmc1987

Registered User
Jun 2, 2019
1,378
570
It's probably because you don't get it. You assume people are "offended at the notion Marner is overpaid" while clearly overlooking the exact point that was made to you, which is that most of the contracts pointed out were signed when said players had showed but a tiny fraction of what Marner did.

Would you take MacKinnon over Marner? Today, sure. How would you rate a 52 point player with a career high of 63 versus a 94 point player at the same age? How would you reimburse him? Are you also going with the HF mantra that apparently only Leaf players might not have another gear in their development, so what you've seen is what you get?

Disagree that Marner ever looked "better" than the players mentioned. Marner had two ~60 point seasons before jumping to ~90 playing alongside Tavares...after having 2 seasons with Matthews and Nylander and Rielly. Marner also plays WING which is far more limited position than CENTER.

It's impossible to rewrite history and hindsight is easy, but I would take PLD today over Marner. I think, like MacKinnon, PLD is going to break-out and he's going to be a lot more affordable. And a franchise center is always worth more than a wingman.

Again, Marner is a GOOD player. Would love the player on my team, but not at his contract especially in the Covid world. When people say, "Oh well it wasn't Dubas fault...can't predict Covid". They're right and they're wrong. Operating a team that is so top-heavy doesn't work and sets you up for failure...with that being said Dubas had a great offseason.

I like TML to go ECF 2021
 

Rants Mulliniks

Registered User
Jun 22, 2008
22,958
6,029
Disagree that Marner ever looked "better" than the players mentioned. Marner had two ~60 point seasons before jumping to ~90 playing alongside Tavares...after having 2 seasons with Matthews and Nylander and Rielly. Marner also plays WING which is far more limited position than CENTER.

It's impossible to rewrite history and hindsight is easy, but I would take PLD today over Marner. I think, like MacKinnon, PLD is going to break-out and he's going to be a lot more affordable. And a franchise center is always worth more than a wingman.

Again, Marner is a GOOD player. Would love the player on my team, but not at his contract especially in the Covid world. When people say, "Oh well it wasn't Dubas fault...can't predict Covid". They're right and they're wrong. Operating a team that is so top-heavy doesn't work and sets you up for failure...with that being said Dubas had a great offseason.

I like TML to go ECF 2021

Marner's first season was almost exclusively 3rd and 4th line. He played the vast majority of his time with JVR and Bozak. You literally have to go down to 2.89% to find the first time he played with Matthews and 0.77% to find the first time he played with Nylander. He still put up over 60 points playing 16:49 per night.

Year two he spent most of his time with Kadri, Marleau, JVR and Bozak. You literally have to go down to 2.81% to find the first time he played with Matthews and 3.2% to find the first time he played with Nylander. He put up 69 points playing 16:23 per night.

In his first stretch of 82 consecutive games at the Pt/GP level, 75% of that occurred pre Tavares.

Additionally, contrary to HF narrative, he didn't walk into some juggernaut. He walked into a last place team featuring 7 rookies (literally a third of the lineup).

You are doing like most of HF and completely re-writing history to support a narrative.

Yes, Marner does play wing though like Matthews, he is a unicorn. As a winger he is close to leading the league in assists, whereas for Matthews, as a centre, he is close to leading the league in goals.

Whether people like it or lump it, NHL contracts are rewarded by and large based on point totals. Again, if you have two people that are the same age and one has done all of the above while the other has done significantly less, it stands to reason why the contract differences exist. Those guys people mention who are currently outproducing their contracts are almost exclusively guys with far less resume at time of signing and/or guys you couldn't land for near that value today (because.....gasp.....they now have the resume to back the demand). A few are guys operating under systems with vast tax differentials.
 
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Maximus74

Registered User
Mar 5, 2006
587
105
Ontario
15 pages on Marner?
A) He isn't being traded this year
B) He is overpaid
C) When his annual salary #s come down he will have a ton of value to budget teams
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,284
17,190
15 pages on Marner?
A) He isn't being traded this year
B) He is overpaid
C) When his annual salary #s come down he will have a ton of value to budget teams
Majority of his money is paid out.

It's the equivalent of 7.5m per for 5 years now.
 

ElPrimeTime

Registered User
Dec 23, 2014
915
839
Edmonton, AB
But by how much? Would the Habs do better with Price or Marner? Price may be expensive but for MTL it was a no-brainer.

You mistaken intent. I was not proposing or suggesting Marner for Price. I was comparing the two by staying that both the Leafs and the Habs will get more value from keeping the player than from trading them.
 

Znith

Registered User
Aug 16, 2012
412
70
Pre covid, you might be able to move him, the way market is now, no chance. IMO. I like him as a player and there would be no need to trade him, hes the least of TML problems.

This season the leafs look to have set their lineup and likely won't be making big moves like this.

However, if they decide to trade Marner, they can trade him next year after paying his bonus.

The remaining contract would then be:
24.75 over 4 years, average of ~$6.19m x 4

Another consideration:
If teams are hurting next season, Marner would only make $750k in actual salary that year, while being an 10.8m cap hit.

There are a ton of teams who aren't cap teams and have internal budgets, that would find this sort of contract extremely valuable, because they are worried about actual dollars.

Then add the fact that he's a 23 year old who has a 90 point season....

You can see the argument for Marner having a very high value.

With that said, I don't believe Marner will be traded at any point during his contract, and this thread is silly.
 

Leaf Fans

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
19,641
8,225
Pre covid, you might be able to move him, the way market is now, no chance. IMO. I like him as a player and there would be no need to trade him, hes the least of TML problems.
Teams would make room for Marner if the Leafs chose to move him
 

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