Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part V

[Leaf4Life]

No, I don't think it'll be a problem. First of all, it isn't half. And second of all, we can make it work.

First of all, check your math.

Matthews: $11.6M
Tavares: $11M
Nylander: $6.96
Marner: $11M+ (if he turned down 11, lets say he accepts 12)
= $41.56

Projected cap = $83 (or possibly lower)

83/41.56 = 50%


Secondly, it can work because you said so? LOL

 

[Cappuccino]

With the possible loss of Duchene,Panarin and others, Columbus would be a nice trade partner.
Marner would make a premier winger for Dubois.

If you could get a Werenski/Anderson out of the deal, I'd be happy.

Johnsson...Matthews...Anderson
Hyman...Tavares...Nylander
Tanev...Kadri (you can keep him now)…Kapanen
Moore...Goat...Korshkov/Brown/whatever

Muzzin...Werenski
Rielly...find another decent D partner
Dermott...Lily/Hainsey

In that deal I would also ask for the Panarin rights and I would then really consider trading Kadri to a team like the Flames for Brodie and also ask for their first this year. There are some decent D-men available late first / early second round.

 

[Leaf4Life]

Any team with:
Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Reilly
Andersen

Can win.

Yes, like how we lost in the first round the last 3 years with these guys? LOL

 

[I Believe]

94 points this year is 80 something any other year. Scoring this season was an anomaly.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Any team with:
Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Reilly
Andersen

Can win.

Pure speculation, until we see them win even a playoff round.
It’s still ludicrous to me that we could have 4 guys making 40m on the cap without 1 playoff series win.

 

[MyBudJT]

First of all, check your math.

Matthews: $11.6M
Tavares: $11M
Nylander: $6.96
Marner: $11M+ (if he turned down 11, lets say he accepts 12)
= $41.56

Projected cap = $83 (or possibly lower)

83/41.56 = 50%


Secondly, it can work because you said so? LOL

Check my math?
11.634 + 11 + 11 + 6.963 = ~40.6

40.6 < 41.5

Regardless, we can cope with it.

 

[Havoc]

Saw this online and I like it
If Marner signs an offersheet for 11.5M lets say, you take the 4 first round picks.
Then you immediately turn around and offersheet Laine for 8.5M, which would be 2 firsts, a second and a third I believe.
This leaves 3M extra cap room to sign Kapanen
So essentially your trading Marner, 2 firsts, a second, and a third
In return you get Laine, 4 first rounders, and keep Kapanen

Even if Jets don't match, Laine isn't signing for 8.5.

 

[Leaf4Life]

Check my math?
11.634 + 11 + 11 + 6.963 = ~40.6

40.6 < 41.5

Regardless, we can cope with it.

Speculation is he turned down $11M buddy. READ MY POST. I used $12M.

Nonetheless, $40.6/83 = 49%. AND there's no guarantee it'll even be $83M.

You're wrong, it's OK.

 

[MyBudJT]

Speculation is he turned down $11M buddy. READ MY POST.

Nonetheless, $40.6/83 = 49%. AND there's no guarantee it'll even be $83M.

You're wrong, it's OK.

I speculate that he didn't! There!

Until we hear something more concrete, I sincerely doubt he signs for more than 11M anywhere.

 

[IPS]

94 points this year is 80 something any other year. Scoring this season was an anomaly.

Patrick Kane's 3rd year was arguably superior to Marner's 3rd year. And that's without the playoffs.

It could honestly be awhile before Marner sees 94 points again.

 

[Leaf4Life]

I speculate that he didn't! There!

Until we hear something more concrete, I sincerely doubt he signs for more than 11M anywhere.

Bottom line, it's 50% or very close and yes, we're in trouble if we have no cap left for an actual TEAM.

 

[Dragao6]

and i'd rather we had a much younger Marner instead of JT in you're scenario

Marner was great this year, outside playoffs he was our best player. Even though allot of his points were him driving the play one thing is getting 94 pts when some of them are secondary points, empty net points etc...

Other is putting the puck in the net yourself and for that jt and matthews get paid while playing C, scoring 40 + goals

 

[Mess]

You are astonished because you love Marner more than the Leafs.

If a player's greed is pricing them off the team then they have to go. It's about winning and not just a pretty collection of names. You can't win if you can't afford to put a full team on the ice. If Marner was willing to sign a sensible deal and try to win with this team then people would love to have him around. But Marner isn't more important than the Leafs. It's a sad part of the cap system, but there you have it. Can't give everyone a blank check.

Its very true as this becomes a balancing act between being Cup competitiveness (#1 priority) and not just trying to get your top players signed and under contract and cost be damned, making cap compliancy your only or biggest concern. .

The Leafs are in real danger of spending themselves right out of the playoffs, if they're not careful and there is a break-even point and after that you start seeing diminishing returns and less on ice success if you harm your teams depth or ignore your teams defense core only focused on scoring and investing in high priced forwards.

The Marner contract at >$ 10 mil already puts serious question marks into whether the Leafs can find success with 3 of the top 6-8 highest cap players in the game on the same team.

If Leafs have 3 players making $11 mil and they miss the playoffs what good is that?

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Pure speculation, until we see them win even a playoff round.
It’s still ludicrous to me that we could have 4 guys making 40m on the cap without 1 playoff series win.

Of course! all of this is speculation but they're young and should improve. If it no foresight was required than anyone could be an NHL GM.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm just astonished how this fanbase is willing to give up on a superstar so easily.

For Me.

Team.

Player.

Always. in that order. I don't care if you are a superstar or a guy on a PTO. I cheer for the Crest. not the name on the back.


I have zero qualms paying Mitch 11.5 million dollars. Hell. if the boy wanted 15m. i'd do that. Why? because the leafs are rich.

Problem. there is a Salary Cap (something i've ranted and raved that i hate. it punishes good teams who make money it punishes good teams who DO draft well into not keeping their talent, and people want it because "parity" and "it punishes dumb Gms." - which it doesn't just look at Philly and Hayes).

So in this Hard Cap Salary World (where we are really tight up against it) you can't pay everything whatever they demand. the Leafs in good conscience can not sign Mitch Marner to 11-11.5 (where i will point out that the guy who just won the Hart trophy, and has been better than Mitch, makes 9-9.5). when you are already paying a crap load of resources up front.

Now. Someone screwed up if the reports were that they could have signed Mitch for 8.5 for whatever. that's on them. but at the same time I don't agree that Mitch (in the economic world we live in) is worth 11.5 for short years. andI was honest that if i had to choose between Nylander/Mitch, Nylander would have gone, we get the resources from that trade you pay Mitch 8.5 (or less). and call a day a day. IF we had to choose.

Well guess what. Now we have to choose, and they chose Nylander, Tavares and Matthews. mitch thinks he's worth the moon (his right), we can't give him the moon. the Team's priority should be to ensure they have enough resources to be competitive next season (including cap space for trades) make sure their back end is tight, get a back up goalie, and fill in other holes.

I personally wouldn't even wait for the offer sheet. i'd be trying to make a blockbuster deal to get the 2nd overall pick, featuring Marner. OR. let the guy sign the offer sheet. because the Leafs would match anything under 10. and anything over 10. we get first 4 round picks). then if I were Dubas i'd flat out say Mitch wanted this, I have to do what's best for my team and making sure this organization wins a cup which trumps having a super star.

but that's just me.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Yes, like how we lost in the first round the last 3 years with these guys? LOL

So you give up? blow it all up? Matthews is the youngest player on the leafs at 21 years old... let that sink in

 

[Leaf4Life]

So you give up? blow it all up? Matthews is the youngest player on the leafs at 21 years old... let that sink in

Who said blow it up? I'm saying we shouldn't overpay for Marner and we need DEPTH to win.

Simply having those guys in your list means nothing, as has been proven for the past 3 years. lol

Edit: One more thing, I'm not happy with the play of Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Anderson at all during this past playoffs. Your statement of "any team with those guys can win a championship" just doesn't hold water.

 

[Zizzzzy]

This is a concept I've been wondering about lately. In the NBA, fans don't complain when players demand and recieve the Max contract. However, in the NHL, when players want to get compensated for what they bring to the team, people have a fit.

Yep, its a shame. Nobody is talking about how much Kawhi is going to cost to keep. Its just give him the max 190 million rainbows and kittens. Meanwhile, NHL stars are having to toss their reputations into the dumpster just to claw and scratch an extra 500k.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

Here is something I just made up. I think this looks pretty good and we have extra space during the year to get someone else for one year as well.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Lets go through this excercise, yet again. How many U22 players have scored 94+ points in the last 25 years?

Again, I was told repeatedly in the nylander vs Pastrnak thread that players get paid on their total elc points, not their final elc year.

Nylanders total elc points were better than Pastrnaks... but their final elc year was 20 goals/60 points vs 34 goals/70 points. They signed for same cap percentage, but Nylander is much more front loaded and more in bonuses with one less ufa year. Gross.

Now with Marner it’s just the final elc year that counts. Everything that rationalized Nylander’s overpayment is just thrown out the window, and a new narrative forms.

My problem is this lack of consistency that leaf fans show in these threads, and Dubas shows with the actual contracts.

If the leaf player has the better total elc points, then THAT is what's used to determine his contract. But if the leaf player has just a better final elc year, now it’s THAT that determines his contract.

If a leaf player has less points but more goals, then it’s GOALS that are more important. When the leaf player has less goals but more points, then it’s the POINTS that are more important.

There’s no consistency. And I’m getting really f***ing sick of it.

 

[supermann_98]

Would anyone do Marner for Pesce and TT?

Nope, Pesce and Svecknikov maybe

 

[ORRFForever]

Gotta love how, during the Auston Matthews negotiations, Marner fans were calling him greedy.

Now, during the Marner negotiations, Matthews fans are calling Marner greedy.

Call it : The Circle Of Life.

 

[ORRFForever]

Marner was great this year, outside playoffs he was our best player. Even though allot of his points were him driving the play one thing is getting 94 pts when some of them are secondary points, empty net points etc...

Other is putting the puck in the net yourself and for that jt and matthews get paid while playing C, scoring 40 + goals

To his credit, he worked the PK - and was great at it.

 

[supermann_98]

Pure speculation, until we see them win even a playoff round.
It’s still ludicrous to me that we could have 4 guys making 40m on the cap without 1 playoff series win.

Very true and very sad

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes, like how we lost in the first round the last 3 years with these guys? LOL

And that’s when the 2 young stars made 2 million between them. Not 22 million.