Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[Mess]

Next Marner contract thread ..

Running out of fingers and toes to keep track.

Old Thread: Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XV (continued)

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[Gary Nylund]

XVI and counting ...

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

This probably gets resolved in September at this point.

 

[Sypher04]

I was pretty conservative. I assumed Bozak was a 3rd line and any shift without Bozak Matthews or Kadri was 4th. There were times when Bozak was on the ice with Kadri or Matthews and I counted it as 1st or second. This is all a matter of semantics. The shift of production happened when Marner moved to play with Kadri and Marleau for the most part. Without putting names to lines, I don't really know how you can conclude that I am wrong. Would the best course of action on your part not be to say outright that you disagree that Bozak was the #3 center and then we can compare something like QoC to settle the matter? We are going in circles on this argument

Well, to be clear, I take zero issue with your point of the production jump when he moved lines from playing with Bozak and JVR to then Kadri and Marleau. We have no disagreement.

Where we disagree is just some detail work. I don't recall Marner playing anything one could consider prolonged or substantial time with the 4th line.

When it comes to 3rd line vs 2b. Yeah, it's semantics to a point, but I do think classifying them as such does a disservice as I don't feel there was anything tradiotional about our "3rd line" or their usage. I'm not the most into advanced stats, I appreciate them, but they are not yet part of my mindset where I use them all that often in discussion.

It's an interesting discussion and when I have more time I'd like to do a deeper dive into Marner's usage last year

 

[dangomon]

XVI and counting ...

If this makes it to September, we're hitting thread XXX for sure.

 

[Sypher04]

This probably gets resolved in September at this point.

I tend to agree.
The media keeps reporting doom and gloom and bad feelings but until the other notable RFAs sign and we are the ones dragging I'm not gonna let myself get too concerned

 

[Clark4Ever]

I think it's become abundantly clear that no team in the NHL is willing to offer sheet Marner based on the term and AAV his camp is demanding. He has no leverage.

Either he accepts terms that make sense for the organization, or let him sit or play in the KHL this season. Enough is enough.

 

[BlueForever75]

I think it's become abundantly clear that no team in the NHL is willing to offer sheet Marner based on the term and AAV his camp is demanding. He has no leverage.

Either he accepts terms that make sense for the organization, or let him sit or play in the KHL this season. Enough is enough.

Or trade him for two nice young pieces, RHD and RW, and be done with it.

I would lean towards this because we need pieces in our lineup short term and long term if Marner isn't in it. Trade him for a youngish RHD locked up for 4-5 million annually, and a young RW that is proven that is locked up 3-5 million annually.

LATER

 

[Rob Brown]

I think it's become abundantly clear that no team in the NHL is willing to offer sheet Marner based on the term and AAV his camp is demanding. He has no leverage.

Either he accepts terms that make sense for the organization, or let him sit or play in the KHL this season. Enough is enough.

Yep. While there is plenty of time, it's getting annoying. If his agent hadn't been such a loudmouth constantly talking to the media and leaking "news" I don't think anyone would have as much of a problem with Marner.

 

[IPS]

I think it's become abundantly clear that no team in the NHL is willing to offer sheet Marner based on the term and AAV his camp is demanding. He has no leverage.

Either he accepts terms that make sense for the organization, or let him sit or play in the KHL this season. Enough is enough.

I've felt much better about the negotiation since the offer sheet on Aho.

I don't think some folks realize just what that did to Marner's negotiation. And notice how quiet Dreger has been since then? I hope his rep his ruined after that shameful display of "journalism" in May/June.

 

[BlueForever75]

TO PHILLY

Marner
Ceci

TO TORONTO

Konecny
Provorov

____________________________________________
TO CAROLINA

Marner
Holl
3rd Rounder

TO TORONTO

Pesce
Teravanien

______________________________________________
TO BUFFALO

Marner
Ceci


TO TORONTO

Ristolainen
Mittelstadt
1st Rounder unprotected

_______________________________________________

TO OTTAWA

Marner
Ceci
2nd Rounder


TO TORONTO

Tkachuk
Demelo
1st Rounder unprotected

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Some Potential Marner Trades:
​

Leafs - Blues
Colton Parayko, Braden Schenn, 2nd
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Schenn - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Parayko
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Ducks
Rickard Rakell, Josh Manson, Nick Ritchie, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Rakell

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Blue Jackets
Zack Werenski, Josh Anderson
for
Mitch Marner, Trevor Moore, 3rd

Johnsson - Matthews - Anderson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Werenski
Muzzin - - Barrie

Leafs - Red Wings
Anthony Mantha, Tyler Bertuzzi, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, 2nd/3rd

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Mantha - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flames
Matthew Tkachuk, Tavis Hamonic
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Tkachuk - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Hamonic
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flyers
Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Konecny

Rielly - Provorov
Muzzin - Barrie

 

[Hope Bringer]

It really does feel like this will take longer than we had all hoped. Seems like nothing is going on with any of the other RFAs, but i'm sure none of them are eager to be the first one to sign (not counting Meier). I think everyone is waiting for one of Marner, Rantanen, Point, or Tkachuk to sign, and they're all hoping that once they do, they can gain a few extra dollars.

Once one of them sign, I'd assume the Boesers, and the dmen to follow and then the rest of the big guns. No one's moving sides. At least, that's my take.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It really does feel like this will take longer than we had all hoped. Seems like nothing is going on with any of the other RFAs, but i'm sure none of them are eager to be the first one to sign (not counting Meier). I think everyone is waiting for one of Marner, Rantanen, Point, or Tkachuk to sign, and they're all hoping that once they do, they can gain a few extra dollars.

Once one of them sign, I'd assume the Boesers, and the dmen to follow and then the rest of the big guns. No one's moving sides. At least, that's my take.

Aho used to be added to that list.

But because he signed at fair market value, he now “doesn’t count”, which I simply don’t understand.

If he signed for 10x5, everyone here would be saying it set the market.

 

[Cor]

Call up Pauly Fenton.

Offer Marner, Ceci & Harpur for Dumba, Brodin, & Zucker

Additions on either side as needed.

 

[BlueForever75]

Some Potential Marner Trades:
​

Leafs - Blues
Colton Parayko, Braden Schenn, 2nd
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Schenn - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Parayko
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Ducks
Rickard Rakell, Josh Manson, Nick Ritchie, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Rakell

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Blue Jackets
Zack Werenski, Josh Anderson
for
Mitch Marner, Trevor Moore, 3rd

Johnsson - Matthews - Anderson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Werenski
Muzzin - - Barrie

Leafs - Red Wings
Anthony Mantha, Tyler Bertuzzi, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, 2nd/3rd

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Mantha - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flames
Matthew Tkachuk, Tavis Hamonic
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Tkachuk - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Hamonic
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flyers
Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Konecny

Rielly - Provorov
Muzzin - Barrie

I like some of these. I like Flames, Flyers and Blues trades better then all the others though

 

[IPS]

Aho used to be added to that list.

But because he signed at fair market value, he now “doesn’t count”, which I simply don’t understand.

If he signed for 10x5, everyone here would be saying it set the market.

Aho doesn't count now? Where is this being said?

I only know of one poster who insists he's not a comparable because he's a "2nd round pick" for whatever the hell that means.

 

[BlueForever75]

Call up Jimmy Fenton.

Offer Marner, Ceci & Harpur for Dumba, Brodin, & Zucker

Additions on either side as needed.

I like this as well. Now we are talking. Get rid of Marner and make our team a champion. Like Masai did with DeRozen, Dubas needs to think outside the box. There are a bunch of youthful pieces that can be had around the league that will be cheaper to retain and still make the team balanced and better.

 

[DarkKnight]

I've felt much better about the negotiation since the offer sheet on Aho.

I don't think some folks realize just what that did to Marner's negotiation. And notice how quiet Dreger has been since then? I hope his rep his ruined after that shameful display of "journalism" in May/June.

Dreger is long gone on vacation dude. Bobby Mac doesn’t even return calls this time of year he said. They’re off the clock unless something big happens, don’t read anything into his silence.

Aho does help Dubas though.

 

[Pookie]

I think it's become abundantly clear that no team in the NHL is willing to offer sheet Marner based on the term and AAV his camp is demanding. He has no leverage.

Either he accepts terms that make sense for the organization, or let him sit or play in the KHL this season. Enough is enough.

So you are willing to tank a season with less than the best roster then?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

XVI and counting ...

If this makes it to September, we're hitting thread XXX for sure.

Hope its September (or even earlier of course), but this is eerily reminiscent of the Nylander situation.

I think we are going to see a bunch of lopsided Marner trade proposals now like most/many of them on this page.

 

[crump]

I think Marner is extremely important to the team, and I don’t mind a slight over pay right now, but Dubas has to be tough here.

It could be a last minute signing before the season, but Dubas has to be firm on a deadline, none of this missing months of a season nonsense, make him sit a year if he doesn’t sign, otherwise you can expect future contracts to go a similar way. He made that mistake with Nylander. (to be clear I don’t mind Nylander contract, but it screwed him and the team up a little, especially in the playoffs when we needed him to elevate his play)

 

[IPS]

So you are willing to tank a season with less than the best roster then?

Probably no more than Marner is willing to miss out on ~$8M of earnings (or whatever his salary differrential will be between his NHL earnings on a new contract and what he'd make in the KHL).

 

[ShaneFalco]

So you are willing to tank a season with less than the best roster then?

They don't want another Nylander situation. I like Lou's philosophy - if things don't get done you sit for the year. But if it comes to that I'd rather he be moved.
He wants to be here though, that much is clear. He's sure not making it easy though and his brand is taking a beating unnecessarily IMO

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Some Potential Marner Trades:
​

Leafs - Blues
Colton Parayko, Braden Schenn, 2nd
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Schenn - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Parayko
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Ducks
Rickard Rakell, Josh Manson, Nick Ritchie, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Rakell

Rielly - Manson
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Blue Jackets
Zack Werenski, Josh Anderson
for
Mitch Marner, Trevor Moore, 3rd

Johnsson - Matthews - Anderson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Werenski
Muzzin - - Barrie

Leafs - Red Wings
Anthony Mantha, Tyler Bertuzzi, 1st
for
Mitch Marner, 2nd/3rd

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Mantha - Tavares - Kapanen

Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flames
Matthew Tkachuk, Tavis Hamonic
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Tkachuk - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander

Rielly - Hamonic
Muzzin - Barrie

Leafs - Flyers
Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny
for
Mitch Marner, Cody Ceci

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Konecny

Rielly - Provorov
Muzzin - Barrie

Some of those are good starting points, but none of them really jump out enough for the Leafs to really consider them as is IMO.