Marlies GDT: Marlies vs. Monsters, Series Talk | 4-0 Marlies | How does a team with Liljegren sweep? edition

[biotk]

Sandin has the same number of points in 2 playoff games and Liljegren has in 22. He also has more points in his last 15 regular season games than Liljegren had all season (43 games played). Points are not everything, but Sandin has dominated at the AHL level, has done so for many consecutive games now, was the one who stepped up when injuries and callups left the Marlies D core at risk, and has shown that he is ready for the next step.

 

[stickty111]

Sandin has the same number of points in 2 playoff games and Liljegren has in 22. He also has more points in his last 15 regular season games than Liljegren had all season (43 games played). Points are not everything, but Sandin has dominated at the AHL level, has done so for many consecutive games now, was the one who stepped up when injuries and callups left the Marlies D core at risk, and has shown that he is ready for the next step.

I don't why you keep comparing the two. Sandin is better offensively and ahead overall at the same age.
Lilly is better defensively and in transition.

 

[biotk]

I don't why you keep comparing the two. Sandin is better offensively and ahead overall at the same age.
Lilly is better defensively and in transition.

Again, scouts do not think that Liljegren is better defensively. This meme has cropped up after Sandin's offensive numbers took off. I understand wanting to keep believing that the two of them are currently high end prospects, few have been bigger boosters of Liljegren than I have been over the last couple years, but Sandin is currently far, far ahead, and Liljegren has his work cut out for him if he is ever going to be an NHL regular.

 

[stickty111]

Again, scouts do not think that Liljegren is better defensively. This meme has cropped up after Sandin's offensive numbers took off. I understand wanting to keep believing that the two of them are currently high end prospects, few have been bigger boosters of Liljegren than I have been over the last couple years, but Sandin is currently far, far ahead, and Liljegren has his work cut out for him if he is ever going to be an NHL regular.

This is not a meme. From the games and the stats, Lilly is better defensively.
Actually if he keeps on this trajectory, he will easily be an NHL regular.
Dubas wouldn't make those comments of calling him him just to hype Lilly up.

 

[biotk]

Dubas wouldn't make those comments of calling him him just to hype Lilly up.

Liljegren had gone from being viewed as easily the top D in his draft a year before the draft to falling to the 6th D taken. Half way through his D+2 two D taken after him are already playing NHL games and Liljegren is not only not doing that but he is injured (for what is his third consecutive season with major losses of time due to injury) which will rob him of his chance of playing a staring role for Sweden as he hopes they avenge their gold medal game loss from the year before. That would likely be a pretty low point for any prospect.

Dubas saying that the organization had been hoping that he would challenge for a spot as a call up for the Leafs later in the season seems like the kind of thing any competent GM would say about a prospect in that position in order to keep him positive and focused on the end goal.

 

[Alexanderthe89]

I wonder who emerges as this years Trevor Moore?

I’m crossing my fingers it’s Mason Marchment

 

[stickty111]

Rumor is Hollowell is playing again today.

 

[DanM]

Rumor is Hollowell is playing again today.

He could be another gem, we could possibly have

Lily
Sandin
Hollowell

As players who will help our backend in time, a nice change.

 

[stickty111]

He could be another gem, we could possibly have

Lily
Sandin
Hollowell

As players who will help our backend in time, a nice change.

He played so well last game, he might have given Keefe no choice.

 

[stickty111]

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Sandin has the same number of points in 2 playoff games and Liljegren has in 22. He also has more points in his last 15 regular season games than Liljegren had all season (43 games played). Points are not everything

No they aren’t. Especially when only one of these players has received an opportunity to play on the top PP unit with Bracco et al for any significant period of time.

 

[stickty111]

No they aren’t. Especially when only one of these players has received an opportunity to play on the top PP unit with Bracco et al for any significant period of time.

As I mentioned, Lilly's point totals are only down because he is on the 2nd powerplay unit.
However, I think it's fair to say Lilly is better defensively then Sandin, but Sandin is better offensively then Lilly.
Lilly's underlying numbers are also better.

 

[biotk]

No they aren’t. Especially when only one of these players has received an opportunity to play on the top PP unit with Bracco et al for any significant period of time.

Liljegren was gifted copious amounts of time on the PP - including the top unit - both all through last year (I watched him at least a dozen games last year and he was always on a PP unit, generally on the 1st PP), and through at least the first half of this season. He played himself out of a role getting significant PP time.

44.4% of Liljegren's career AHL points (regular season and post season) have come on the PP (16 PP points and 20 ES points in 109 career games). 43.8% of Sandin's career AHL points have come on the PP (14 PP and 18 ES points in 46 career games).

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Liljegren was gifted copious amounts of time on the PP - including the top unit - both all through last year (I watched him at least a dozen games last year and he was always on a PP unit, generally on the 1st PP), and through at least the first half of this season. He played himself out of a role getting significant PP time.

44.4% of Liljegren's career AHL points (regular season and post season) have come on the PP (16 PP points and 20 ES points in 109 career games). 43.8% of Sandin's career AHL points have come on the PP (14 PP and 18 ES points in 46 career games).

I am not talking about last year.

This year, Rosen was on the top PP unit since the Oct 5th opener. At no point did Liljegren get more than a shift or two on the top unit PP at a time.

You wonder how different the season would have turned out if he was simply handed top unit PP time, like Brannstrom in Chicago (or Sandin here, after Rosen moved up and Liljegren was injured).

This year, Liljegren was on the second unit sharing time w Sandin until his injury. Those are the facts. Liljegren was not given a run on the top PP unit this season, despite any narratives you might be trying to impose.

Since that point (two consecutive ankle injuries), his season has been essentially a writeoff from a production point of view. The main thing for his development is that he is on the ice playing, and slowly recovering his elite footspeed/skating.

 

[Nooodles]

Can they play Marleau?
Pretty sure Keefe will need him come crucial time.

 

[stickty111]

I am not talking about last year.

This year, Rosen was on the top PP unit since the Oct 5th opener. At no point did Liljegren get more than a shift or two on the top unit PP at a time.

You wonder how different the season would have turned out if he was simply handed top unit PP time, like Brannstrom in Chicago (or Sandin here, after Rosen moved up and Liljegren was injured).

This year, Liljegren was on the second unit sharing time w Sandin until his injury. Those are the facts. Liljegren was not given a run on the top PP unit this season, despite any narratives you might be trying to impose.

Since that point (two consecutive ankle injuries), his season has been essentially a writeoff from a production point of view. The main thing for his development is that he is on the ice playing, and slowly recovering his elite footspeed/skating.

Sadly, people will make up false things just to fit a narrative. Lilly wasn't really used on the 1st PP aside from a few shifts. Rosen was there, and then when he got injured, Sandin took his place.
People want to praise Sandin for his play there, and thats fine. He has been good, but Bracco and Mueller make the powerplay go.

 

[stickty111]

Powerplay Points
Sandin
A1/G: 0.07
A2/G: 0.14

Lilly
A1/G: 0.05
A2/G: 0.07

The primary assist numbers are similar, Sandin's points are inflated by the 2nd assist. A rise in Lilly's powerplay minutes probably gets him some 2nd assists as well.

 

[biotk]

I am not talking about last year.

This year, Rosen was on the top PP unit since the Oct 5th opener. At no point did Liljegren get more than a shift or two on the top unit PP at a time.

You wonder how different the season would have turned out if he was simply handed top unit PP time, like Brannstrom in Chicago (or Sandin here, after Rosen moved up and Liljegren was injured).

This year, Liljegren was on the second unit sharing time w Sandin until his injury. Those are the facts. Liljegren was not given a run on the top PP unit this season, despite any narratives you might be trying to impose.

Since that point (two consecutive ankle injuries), his season has been essentially a writeoff from a production point of view. The main thing for his development is that he is on the ice playing, and slowly recovering his elite footspeed/skating.

As I said - he has played himself off having a prominent PP role. He was given every opportunity. In his first year he was given the prominent role over Nielsen and Rosen even though he probably shouldn't have been. This year they traded away Nielsen. Rosen got the majority of PP1 time because he earned it. When he was out of the lineup it was Sandin who earned the majority of PP1 time. The PP has simply never been productive when he was on the ice. Always looked good, but the unit couldn't convert. I don't what more you think the Marlies should do? Sacrifice their PP in order to play someone who has poor PP numbers? To boost his numbers? Dermott didn't need (and didn't get) PP time to show he could dominate in the AHL. Sandin has put up almost identical career points both at ES and on the PP in 40% of the games.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is not a meme. From the games and the stats, Lilly is better defensively.
Actually if he keeps on this trajectory, he will easily be an NHL regular.
Dubas wouldn't make those comments of calling him him just to hype Lilly up.

I don't know about hype but come to a game and see for yourself. Sandin is by far and away the better defensive player. He is rock solid with the puck in his own end and he can take a big hit without falling over. You feel totally secure when Sandin has the puck. If anything you might be able to argue Lily has a little more offensive flair to his game. Keefe though chooses to play Sandin on PP. He has said Lily needs to be a little safer with the puck and reduce his turnovers. Lily needs to get better balance on his skates so he is not as easily on the ice. Sandin is much closer to the NHL than Lily. It really is not even close.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

As I said - he has played himself off having a prominent PP role. He was given every opportunity.

That’s not correct though. “Given every opportunity” to me means giving a player a trial on PP1. A couple of games at least. That’s an opportunity. Liljegren has yet to get that for PP1 this season, even before his injury when he was playing very well at both ends he was never given that extended look on PP1. I’m not arguing he deserved it over Rosen, but not all PP units have one defencemen, and many teams would give (in fact, did give) their recent 1st rounders that kind of opportunity in their D+2 years.

 

[stickty111]

I don't know about hype but come to a game and see for yourself. Sandin is by far and away the better defensive player. He is rock solid with the puck in his own end and he can take a big hit without falling over. You feel totally secure when Sandin has the puck. If anything you might be able to argue Lily has a little more offensive flair to his game. Keefe though chooses to play Sandin on PP. He has said Lily needs to be a little safer with the puck and reduce his turnovers. Lily needs to get better balance on his skates so he is not as easily on the ice. Sandin is much closer to the NHL than Lily. It really is not even close.

I have watched games, and Lilly is the better defensive player based on stats and the eye test. Sandin turns the puck over a lot especially in the offensive zone. They are both good and almost ready for the NHL. None of them are ahead of the other, and it isn't a matter of "not even close"

 

[stickty111]

Timshov-Mueller-Bracco
Marchment-Brooks-Carcone
Engvall-Greening-Jooris
Molino-MacMaster-Baptiste

Rosen-Liljegren
Borgman-LoVerde
Sandin-Hollowell

Kaskisuo

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Nice early goal to get things started by Brooks.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Marlies on the board!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Nice pass by Carcone