Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - It's finally puckdrop, baby!

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Twine Tickler

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So it sounds like Robertson might need some time down there based on the comments I'm reading here and in chat?
I really wish he could spend the whole year in the AHL, he certainly has NHL talent, and is very committed, but he looks at times like he is struggling with his decision making and the physicality of the pro game. Shows some real flashes of brilliance, and throws a ton of rubber on the net. Pucks haven’t been going in for him in the rate that we have grown accustomed to. But the compete level has been there, just looks like he needs more time to get adjusted to the lack of space and physicality IMO. I really don’t know what I’d do with nick once the OHL gets fired up, because I am not sure learning at the NHL level is best for him personally
 
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The Iceman

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In Sandin's case, I don't think he is ready. Like he can get into a couple of games if we are desperate but he shouldn't be counted on even as a depth guy right now. Fortunately we have Lehtonen and Marincin as spares so we shouldn't need him.

I think Sandin with his high hockey IQ plays better with better players. IMO this will make Rasmus a better Leaf than Lily. Time will tell.
Remembering a couple years back when Matthews said Sandin needs to make this team during preseason action.
 

DopeyFish

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the main difference between sandin and liljegren is sandin is a twitchy type of player and lilly is more methodical

sandin is better at play neutralization
lilly is better at individual player neutralization

both are really good at transition

sandin is better offensively just because he's twitchy... that means more looks, more opportunities... but for each opportunity, lilly may have a better chance overall
 

LeafChief

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this franchise has absolutely the worst luck

The injury (bad) luck this year has been outrageous.

I guess Lehtonen gets some rope here with Muzzin out to show if he's an NHLer. Mind you if it's just a facial injury like they have reported, it's likely Muzzin can return shortly with a face shield.
 

BoredBrandonPridham

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The injury (bad) luck this year has been outrageous.

I guess Lehtonen gets some rope here with Muzzin out to show if he's an NHLer. Mind you if it's just a facial injury like they have reported, it's likely Muzzin can return shortly with a face shield.

A broadcaster mentioned last game when Muzzin might be coming back and it was surprisingly quick. Wish I remembered what was said, but I feel like it was as soon as next week.
 

Thissiteisgarbage

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I really wish he could spend the whole year in the AHL, he certainly has NHL talent, and is very committed, but he looks at times like he is struggling with his decision making and the physicality of the pro game. Shows some real flashes of brilliance, and throws a ton of rubber on the net. Pucks haven’t been going in for him in the rate that we have grown accustomed to. But the compete level has been there, just looks like he needs more time to get adjusted to the lack of space and physicality IMO. I really don’t know what I’d do with nick once the OHL gets fired up, because I am not sure learning at the NHL level is best for him personally
Big takeaway for me watching is how easily he is being manhandled by the opposition. Part of his skating style lends itself to this, but he gets knocks down on his can a lot. He obviously has the tools though...probably just needs the time to adjust to bigger opposition.
 

SeaOfBlue

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the main difference between sandin and liljegren is sandin is a twitchy type of player and lilly is more methodical

sandin is better at play neutralization
lilly is better at individual player neutralization

both are really good at transition

sandin is better offensively just because he's twitchy... that means more looks, more opportunities... but for each opportunity, lilly may have a better chance overall

I think part of it too is that Liljegren plays a game similar to Rielly, where he will take a lot of calculated risks to generate offense and sometimes that can put him out of position. Like Rielly, he is starting to be a lot more selective about when he decides to do it, so he is looking a lot better, but to a casual fan who sees a defenseman out of position they think it is a low IQ move every time.

There is a difference between taking a risk that doesn't work out and making a low IQ pinch or a bad read. Every defenseman does the latter to some degree, but Liljegren has cut it down a lot (and was never that bad in the first place).

Sandin doesn't pinch as often. He will when it makes sense, but he is a guy who runs the game from the blue line rather than at the hashmarks or red line. That allows him to be in position quicker if things go sideways.

It's different, but both are effective, high IQ ways to play the game as a defenseman. The main difference is the kind of partner they need... Liljegren likely needs a guy who doesn't like to take risks (similar to Rielly when he had Hainsey), whereas Sandin can probably get by with a guy who takes as many risks as he does (i.e. Brodie, Zaitsev, or Dermott).
 

Twine Tickler

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Big takeaway for me watching is how easily he is being manhandled by the opposition. Part of his skating style lends itself to this, but he gets knocks down on his can a lot. He obviously has the tools though...probably just needs the time to adjust to bigger opposition.
Yup, 100% agree. I said it in his first game of the year in the AHL. His skating style reminds me of Mason Raymond's Skating style. Coincidently, Mason could never figure out how to stay on his wheels either. In any given game, I swear Mason Raymond would pick himself off of the ice at least once a shift. They both have a hunched over/forward leaning stride. Very easy to knock off the puck, as half of your body weight is already leaning forward. Just how it would be easier to push someone to the ground who is bending over to pick something up, vs. someone standing upright. Hunching over is really only effective when you are chasing down a puck, not when you are trying to protect it. Perfect example is Mitch. Straight away skating without the puck he is hunched over to generate more leg power for his stride (as most skaters are). However when Mitch possesses the puck he is very much upright, he is able to handle those soft cross checks because he is in a better position to protect the puck. It is something I think Nick really needs to work on, because he is very easily knocked off the puck at this moment. In open ice, and special teams you can see just how effective he is, he just needs to figure out how to improve his puck protection/balance. That all said, he is only 19 years old/165 lbs and just back from a knee injury. I am the least bit worried at this point, but he is absolutely not ready from what I have seen IMO. I also think when the OHL returns, I would bring Nick up to the big boys and play him sparingly. He can learn a lot from the guys on the Leafs, and especially can learn from Barb. Even if he only plays 10 games with the leafs this year, I think it will benefit him more than being on the Petes.
 

meefer

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I don't see any Marlie games. Thanks for the info you folks are providing.

*Has Nick R put on any weight or grown in size? Is the 165 out of date?
*Has Brazeau's skating improved, is there legitimate potential there?
*Is there a sleeper on this team, someone who you think may blossom into something much better than expected?
 

supermann_98

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Don't get fooled by what you read. Many people are still judging him on his draft day scouting report.
Not to mention you have guys on the radio like Hayes who call him a bust while admitting they haven’t really watched him play all that much. This guys hands and skating are #1D level. The only thing holding him back is getting used to the NHL speed imo
 

Leafs1991

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I don't see any Marlie games. Thanks for the info you folks are providing.

*Has Nick R put on any weight or grown in size? Is the 165 out of date?
*Has Brazeau's skating improved, is there legitimate potential there?
*Is there a sleeper on this team, someone who you think may blossom into something much better than expected?
From the little bit I saw of him, keep in mind I'm not sure of what it was like laat year, but I didn't think it was that bad. It wasn't junior level and looked somewhat smooth. His stride length definitely helps make it look better than it actually is as well.

Given some time, he could look pretty good if he works on it a lot.
 
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horner

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I really wish he could spend the whole year in the AHL, he certainly has NHL talent, and is very committed, but he looks at times like he is struggling with his decision making and the physicality of the pro game. Shows some real flashes of brilliance, and throws a ton of rubber on the net. Pucks haven’t been going in for him in the rate that we have grown accustomed to. But the compete level has been there, just looks like he needs more time to get adjusted to the lack of space and physicality IMO. I really don’t know what I’d do with nick once the OHL gets fired up, because I am not sure learning at the NHL level is best for him personally
It's to bad that he didn't play in the WJC . Would have been a great measuring stick .
O well
 
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horner

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From the little bit I saw of him, keep in mind I'm not sure of what it was like laat year, but I didn't think it was that bad. It wasn't junior level and looked somewhat smooth. His stride length definitely helps make it look better than it actually is as well.

Given some time, he could look pretty good if he works on it a lot.
It's all about strength for this kid
 

TheGoldenJet

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this franchise has absolutely the worst luck



It’s the kind of luck Doobler set himself up for when he decided to keep the two best prospects out for 11 months. Sandin will have gone for more than one year of inactivity with only one Marlies game and a 5 minute skate with the Leafs to show for it.
 

Apex Predator

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It’s the kind of luck Doobler set himself up for when he decided to keep the two best prospects out for 11 months. Sandin will have gone for more than one year of inactivity with only one Marlies game and a 5 minute skate with the Leafs to show for it.

If you want people to take you serious stop calling him doobler you lose all credibility
 

Twine Tickler

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It's to bad that he didn't play in the WJC . Would have been a great measuring stick .
O well
it is a real shame for sure. More so for Nick, I think that will be a decision that haunts him for the rest of his life. He passed up a once in a lifetime opportunity to fully commit himself to making the Leafs. You really have to admire his commitment. Not sure I have seen that level of buy in from a 19 year old. Maybe ever. He will be a really good NHL player one day. And I certainly think he can produce in the NHL right now. My only knock is he really needs to improve his puck protection/on the puck strength. It will come, but it has been noticeably weak to me this year. For that reason he is not fully ready IMO
 

Jeypic

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I don't see any Marlie games. Thanks for the info you folks are providing.

*Has Nick R put on any weight or grown in size? Is the 165 out of date?
*Has Brazeau's skating improved, is there legitimate potential there?
*Is there a sleeper on this team, someone who you think may blossom into something much better than expected?
Nick looks small out there. He’s getting knocked off the puck often. Marner was the same when he was a rookie though.
Brazeau is the sleeper imo. But he needs to work on his agility and skating a lot still. It’s not horrible. But he’s got a long way to go before its as good as Gauthier’s was for us even.
 
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Critical13

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It’s the kind of luck Doobler set himself up for when he decided to keep the two best prospects out for 11 months. Sandin will have gone for more than one year of inactivity with only one Marlies game and a 5 minute skate with the Leafs to show for it.

The injury he sustained has nothing to do with inactivity.

It's to bad that he didn't play in the WJC . Would have been a great measuring stick .
O well

I would have enjoyed rubbing it in other team's faces too, but reality is, his NHL career should mean a lot more to him than the WJC and he showed that it did. The right call was made.

Would have been nice to rub it in the Habs fans faces though when he put up way better numbers than Caufield.
 

hockeywiz542

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NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 13 Toronto Maple Leafs - The Athletic

1. Nick Robertson, LW, 19 (Toronto Maple Leafs)

Robertson’s got a fascinating, unique skill set. His curl and drag release comes off his blade heavy and can cleanly beat goalies from mid-range. He’s got superb hands and footwork, helping him spin off checks, pull back against pressure, adjust around close-outs, and play under sticks or through feet. And then he’s also got some of the skills needed to complement that package to get the most out of it given his 5-foot-9 frame. He’s fearless in puck pursuit, he doesn’t back down from board battles, and his feet are always moving to stay involved on the forecheck (he can actually occasionally chase the play a little too much) and get open off the puck. And while his diminutive size, good but not explosive skating, and growing injury history will likely limit him from becoming a first-line forward, Robertson’s got clear top-six, power play upside.

2. Rasmus Sandin, LHD, 20 (Toronto Maple Leafs/Toronto Marlies)

Sandin’s game is thematic of the type of prospect the Leafs covet. He doesn’t lack effort, he plays with a great deal of poise, he’s mobile without being a burner, he’s feistier and more physically engaged than his frame might suggest, and he plays a puck-possession style built on flow and the odd flash of skill (even if that skill doesn’t necessarily flash all the time). His game is about adjusting and maneuvering. He’s tactile. In time, though he won’t be a No. 1 D and probably won’t even become a No. 2 D, he should become a play-driving second-pairing 5-on-5 defender who can run one of the two power play units and make plays with his feet and problem-solving under pressure.

3. Rodion Amirov, LW/RW, 19 (Salavat Yulaev Ufa)

Most of the top prospects at this year’s world juniors started a little slow and got better as the tournament went on (even as the opponents got tougher). Amirov’s game did the reverse. He was all over the puck when he didn’t have it in group play, and manufacturing offence as an elusive O-zone creator when he did have it (something the Russians sorely lacked). But his game faded against some tougher line matchups, revealing at least some of the minor concerns that are present in Amirov’s skill set. Amirov’s at his best when he’s drawing players to him, making plays happen behind them, fooling defenders with baits and fakes, and hanging onto the puck to spin off checks and play with enviable fluidity (with hands that move in concert with his footwork). He’s also an able puck thief, using stick lifts and dexterity to pull and steal pucks off opposing players. He’s a fun player to watch when he’s cutting with control, changing directions in possession, and taking what’s given to him (where that’s a passing lane or an open opportunity to use his dangerous wrist shot) without trying to be too cute. But while he doesn’t shy away from battles, his skating is smooth rather than fast in straight lines, limiting his ability (at least so far in his career) to play the puck-dominant game that makes him so effective.

If Amirov can get stronger and a little bit quicker, he’ll have top-six upside as a versatile and engaged winger. But there are steps he has to take.

4. Nick Abruzzese, C/LW, 21 (Harvard University)

Abruzzese has always been a tricky evaluation because he bloomed late, was drafted at 20, and was closer to junior-age than freshman-age when he joined the Crimson last season. Then Harvard cancelled its entire 2020-21 season due to the pandemic. The lost season and Abruzzese’s inactivity since March 7 hasn’t necessarily been a bad thing for him, though. He’s in the process of rehabbing an injury which nagged him last year and the layoff has helped him get back healthy (I’ll have more on the specifics at some point in the future) so that he can return at 100 percent. Abruzzese was also brilliant last season as a first-year, looking like the upperclassman you’d hope he’d look like as the NCAA’s second-leading points producer (1.42 points per game). When the season shut down in March, he was in the midst of a three-game multi-point streak. Abruzzese’s game shines most inside the offensive zone when things slow down and his ability to handle the puck and execute through layers has free rein to be creative. His skill set as a puck-dominant, line-driving passer with great hands and elusive changes in direction is all there. And though he’s a little on the smaller side and his stride isn’t explosive, both of which could limit him at the pro level, I think he works hard enough and processes the game fast enough to potentially overcome both of those things. The Crimson aren’t going to look the same when they resume for the 2021-22 season and he’s not going to have the toys he had as a freshman but I still expect him on talent to be one of the NCAA’s top playmakers, potentially turning pro after next season finishes to play in the AHL or challenge for an NHL roster spot. I’d listen to an argument that has him a little lower, but he’s got clearer top six talent than some of the forwards that follow and that gave him a slight edge when I was done flipping them around.

I recently asked Harvard head coach Ted Donato about Abruzzese. Here’s what he said:

“His puck skills, his hockey IQ, his ability to create time and space for himself, his commitment to improve as a player and work on things, I think the future is very bright for him. He has been a real pleasure to be able to coach and I think he’s got an opportunity to continue to get better. Nick’s a tremendous young man. High character, high work ethic. He’s got a lot of upside. He’s really pretty dynamic offensively and makes others around him better. And he’s getting stronger and has really turned into a well-rounded player, so people are well within their right minds to be excited about his future.”

5. Timothy Liljegren, RHD, 21 (Toronto Marlies)

I debated ranking Liljegren several spots lower. There’s a pronounced drop-off after the top three and I think there are more than half a dozen players who have a case for fourth and fifth here. Loyal readers will know I’ve soured on Liljegren’s upside over the years. Despite his excellent age-adjusted production in the AHL last season, his handedness, his status as a first-round pick and the acclaim he had as a teenager before injuries and illness set him back a little, Liljegren has some clear warts in his game that I haven’t been able to wrap my head around. The big one is mainly his sloppy and slow forwards and backwards skating stride (his lateral footwork and edges are assets, though his pivots can look a little stilted). But there are minor ones too (like that his shot hasn’t improved since draft day). There are positive tools in his game, though. His defensive play, in terms of his reads without the puck, his decisions with it, and the way he engages in battles (or chooses not to), has improved mightily. He played a much more aggressive, decisive game offensively last season, looking to activate off the line and hit tough seams as a passer more. He’s now playing with more pace, even if he’s not skating with it. He has always been an excellent three-zone stretch passer with a silky first touch comfort level with the puck. The good news is that while he turns 22 before the end of this season, he still has one more year on his entry-level contract after this one, meaning he’s not waiver eligible until the fall of 2022. I still think he’s got a good chance at becoming a possession-driving No. 4 or No. 5 D, but he never developed the pop some (myself included) expected he would offensively and his skating just hasn’t come far enough to warrant a top-four projection at this point.

6. Roni Hirvonen, C, 19 (Ässät)

Hirvonen has always intrigued me as a prospect because he doesn’t play one specific type of game. There are bits and pieces in his skill set that don’t usually fit together or complement each other. Though he’s 5-foot-9 and has some soft area skill, he plays a decidedly thorny, physically engaged style. His decision-making can be a little suspect (both with and without the puck, each of which were evident at the world juniors on some ill-advised penalties and turnovers). Though he has skills of finesse and touch, his game isn’t reliant on those tools nor particularly dynamic with them. Unlike some smaller players, he doesn’t have to cheat or anticipate for his offence. Instead, he plays a game built on sound defensive instincts, above-the-puck support, and pass interceptions, using his skill in the guts of the ice around the front of the net (which resulted in two of the biggest goals of the world juniors late in back-to-back games in the quarters and semis). Ironically, despite a visible commitment off the puck, his defensive results this season with Ässät look worse than my viewings suggest. Hirvonen’s at his best when he’s finding space in the offensive zone to get open into and then driving the net when the puck goes there. He’s not a lethal long-range shooter but he’ll finish plays around the slot, he’s a good passer off the flank. Like a lot of the Leafs’ prospects, he plays fast without being fast. He’s a confusing prospect who plays a fun style but has some definite quirks.

It’s hard to pinpoint what exactly Hirvonen could be at the next level, but it’s not hard to imagine a complementary middle-six player of some kind if he can put it all together and pick up a step.

7. Veeti Miettinen, RW/LW, 19 (St. Cloud State)

Miettinen had an NHL release and NHL power behind his shot before he was drafted. And I’m as convinced today as I was then (when he ranked 37th on my final draft board) that he fell to the sixth round in the draft because his decision to go the college route restricted him from playing in Liiga and thus limited his showcase (even though he was still a one-man show on that Kiekko-Espoo team in Finland’s top junior league). Miettinen has already established himself as an electric single-moment creator and St. Cloud’s most dangerous offensive-zone weapon and leading scorer as a freshman. He can beat goalies cleanly from range off either foot, he knows how to use the attention his shot gets to play pucks into space for teammates, and he’s imaginative as a one-on-one player, finding ways to push and pull into proper angles or get open off the puck. And then he’s an extremely hardworking player despite his 5-foot-9 frame off the puck as a bonus.

8. Filip Hållander, C, 20 (Luleå HF)

Hållander’s one of those prospects where it’s easy to forget that he’s only 20 years old because he has already played four seasons of pro hockey and it feels like he’s been around forever. I was very high (a little too high) on Hållander in his draft year, ranking him 27th; he was selected 58th by the Penguins. And while a broken leg early in the 2019-20 season stunted his progression, he is fully established as an important piece of a top pro team outside the NHL with Luleå, regularly playing 18-20 minutes a night of late. The hallmark of Hallander’s game is that he can do a little bit of everything and play anywhere. He’s consistent shift-to-shift, he’s a valuable forechecker, he can play on both special teams, and he’s talented enough to make plays with the puck but he can also impact a game without a ton of touches as the second or third option on a line.

I’d like to see him shoot the puck more, because his wrister is threatening from the slot when he really looks for it:

For reference on the Leafs depth, Hallander would have been the Penguins’ third-ranked prospect in this series had they not dealt him. He’ll make a useful NHL player who can slide up and down the lineup someday.

9. Mikhail Abramov, C/RW, 19 (Victoriaville Tigres)

After a strong start in the QMJHL, where he has been named Victoriaville’s captain, Abramov started the world juniors as a healthy scratch, debuting in Russia’s third game of the tournament. Once he was used, he gave them something they lacked, using his speed in transition to drive the net, play on his edges, showcase his improved puck protection skill, draw penalties, and create as the primary handler on his lines. Abramov beautifully weaves through his stride when he attacks up the ice, staying agile so that he can side-step pressure. Now that he’s a little stronger on his feet (he’s still lean, but markedly less so), he’s also able to play with a little more patience on the puck so that his creativity on things like little behind the back passes can really flash. He’s also no longer always looking pass, which has added an element to his game as a combination threat who can create his own chances as effectively as he can facilitate for others.

10. Topi Niemelä, RHD, 18 (Kärpät)

Niemelä has had an excellent year, marked by his directorate award as the IIHF’s top defenceman (an award Sandin won a year earlier). And while he wasn’t one of the two D on my media all-star ballot (I thought Canada’s Bowen Byram and teammate Ville Heinola were the more impactful players), Niemelä was stellar on the power play and sound at both ends at even strength. He’s a poised defender who makes things look easy offensively, calmly taking passes, turning, and then quickly making a choice to identify a lane and pass or shoot, or move his feet to create one. His game is detailed but also smooth, making a series of calculated decisions in all three zones which drive results. He’s not an overly aggressive or dynamic player, so you’ll rarely see him go at defenders one-on-one or attack below the offensive zone goal line, but he’ll use whatever space he’s given as a tool to get better opportunities for himself or his teammates. And while he’s not powerful through his stride or in his board battles, impressive footwork helps him open up and direct opposing plays to the outside, close gaps, recover from mistakes, or adjust across the offensive zone blue line with the puck. He projects as a No. 4-5 defenceman who can play with a variety of partners, drive results, and help out on the second power play unit. While he’s nowhere near NHL-ready just yet, his game is pretty polished for his age.
 
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