Prospect Info: Marlies and Prospects Discussion - 2018/19 Edition IV

[ULF_55]

I was thrilled with the pick. I thought it might be a steal.

With regards to Bracco, perhaps the lack of playing time last year and then comparing to other players has mitigated the excitement.

If you look at some of the other prospects the Leafs have had recently, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kapanen PPG as a 20 year old (Button even wrote him off while do this) many of the prospects might look less than they would normally.

Could even be a continuation of the 32 points in 30 games after being traded his final junior season. Not many people are high on juniors who are just over PGP in their senior year. Perhaps there was some thought that his time in Kitchener was just a great opportunity, and wasn't reflective of what he could do after his less than impressive (statistically) end of season stint in Windsor. But Windsor wasn't a high scoring team and Bracco had around the 3rd. best PPG on their team even after making the adjustment/move.

If he can be, at 21, a PPG player in the AHL, it is a great result.

He's in the top 15 for AHL scoring, although that is misleading as many who have a better PPG have been promoted to the NHL.

I'd say the biggest question mark with regards to his future is what can he bring to the Leafs, that the Leafs need that wouldn't be better filled by a different skillset?

If Marleau retired would he be a candidate to replace him, or would Babcock be looking for a different skillset?

A PPG Bracco is a strong asset for the Leafs.

RW: Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Brown, Bracco

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Grundstrom/Engvall-Kadri-Kapanen
Moore-Gauthier-Bracco/Brown

That is a good problem to have.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He was scratched half of last year, had a 2-3 good months in junior, and was in the USNDP like 5 years ago.

I don't really care to get into it again though.

also, he played the first 4 games of the playoffs and a healthy scratch for the next 16, I don't think Babcock will have the patience for him at 5-vs-5, I think he gets traded in some kind of multiplayer deal

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Any Growlers watchers that can speak to whether Estephan or Elyniuk are playing C full time?

I think both are probably long term wingers, Elynuik could stay at center if he works on his skating.

Both are near a PPG pace so thats encouraging for the Marlies as depth guys going forward.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Been spot on with rumors

This guys been awesome! Just lost his day job unfortunately but I wonder if sportsnet would be interested in him as an insider considering their increase in CHL coverage.

 

[Menzinger]

Bracco has 23 points in his last 15 games, makes up for his start where he put up 2 points in 10 games. I wonder if those who who were quick to call him a dud then now think he is a budding superstar.

Ok probably not but that's just my point. Its like people are just waiting for him to fail.

Some folks have been down on him since his draft. It’s been strange

 

[FriendlyGiant]

Safe to say Durzi and SDA are having dissapointing seasons so far. Hollowell is having a great season though.

I saw SDA play when Peterborough played Kitchener on New Years Day. What a huge disappointment. Gets knocked off the puck and loses possession easily. He doesn't get much ice time, even at the OHL level. I know the Leafs were impressed at training camp, but he looks like a complete waste of an ELC. He didn't show anything to make me think he'll be a leaf in the future.

 

[Fogelhund]

I was thrilled with the pick. I thought it might be a steal.

With regards to Bracco, perhaps the lack of playing time last year and then comparing to other players has mitigated the excitement.

If you look at some of the other prospects the Leafs have had recently, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kapanen PPG as a 20 year old (Button even wrote him off while do this) many of the prospects might look less than they would normally.

Could even be a continuation of the 32 points in 30 games after being traded his final junior season. Not many people are high on juniors who are just over PGP in their senior year. Perhaps there was some thought that his time in Kitchener was just a great opportunity, and wasn't reflective of what he could do after his less than impressive (statistically) end of season stint in Windsor. But Windsor wasn't a high scoring team and Bracco had around the 3rd. best PPG on their team even after making the adjustment/move.

If he can be, at 21, a PPG player in the AHL, it is a great result.

He's in the top 15 for AHL scoring, although that is misleading as many who have a better PPG have been promoted to the NHL.

I'd say the biggest question mark with regards to his future is what can he bring to the Leafs, that the Leafs need that wouldn't be better filled by a different skillset?

If Marleau retired would he be a candidate to replace him, or would Babcock be looking for a different skillset?

A PPG Bracco is a strong asset for the Leafs.

RW: Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Brown, Bracco

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Grundstrom/Engvall-Kadri-Kapanen
Moore-Gauthier-Bracco/Brown

That is a good problem to have.

The questions around Bracco will be, is his skating good enough for the NHL, and will his defensive play be good enough? He's certainly made some progress on both fronts, at the AHL level, but until he gets a chance at a higher level, we won't know. I do think he's got an elite hockey mind, and very good setup capability, so he'd be a fantastic winger for a shoot first player. He's probably on the same level as Marner, in the way he thinks the game, but Marner is a far superior individual athletically... but their games are somewhat similar.

I am not overhyping him though, as his limitations are still a big question mark, that will not be answered until he gets a shot at the NHL. He is a hardworking kid though, so I would not count him out.

 

[ULF_55]

The questions around Bracco will be, is his skating good enough for the NHL, and will his defensive play be good enough? He's certainly made some progress on both fronts, at the AHL level, but until he gets a chance at a higher level, we won't know. I do think he's got an elite hockey mind, and very good setup capability, so he'd be a fantastic winger for a shoot first player. He's probably on the same level as Marner, in the way he thinks the game, but Marner is a far superior individual athletically... but their games are somewhat similar.

I am not overhyping him though, as his limitations are still a big question mark, that will not be answered until he gets a shot at the NHL. He is a hardworking kid though, so I would not count him out.

Does he go into traffic now?
I've seen him do the skate around the outside, with the puck on a string, but never trying to penetrate the coverage.

 

[4thline]

The SDA and Stotts picks are interesting, and I'm fully behind them, but sometimes I wonder if scouts/ management teams outsmart themselves at the draft. There was a borderline first round talent re-entering the draft in Adam Mascherin, who had already done things we now hope these other two develop enough to do. Yes other teams passed on him too, and sure maybe our guys end up better/ he doesn't pan out, but a 30 goal/ 60 point U21 AHL season (currently on pace for) is something we can currently only dream of from our picks.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The SDA and Stotts picks are interesting, and I'm fully behind them, but sometimes I wonder if scouts/ management teams outsmart themselves at the draft. There was a borderline first round talent re-entering the draft in Adam Mascherin, who had already done things we now hope these other two develop enough to do. Yes other teams passed on him too, and sure maybe our guys end up better/ he doesn't pan out, but a 30 goal/ 60 point U21 AHL season (currently on pace for) is something we can currently only dream of from our picks.

I remember him playing on Bracco's line in Kitchener, with Macinnis also, great jr line.

 

[Matthews34]

I saw SDA play when Peterborough played Kitchener on New Years Day. What a huge disappointment. Gets knocked off the puck and loses possession easily. He doesn't get much ice time, even at the OHL level. I know the Leafs were impressed at training camp, but he looks like a complete waste of an ELC. He didn't show anything to make me think he'll be a leaf in the future.

Yeah I know. We should judge all our prospects on one game then get rid of them.

 

[Fogelhund]

Does he go into traffic now?
I've seen him do the skate around the outside, with the puck on a string, but never trying to penetrate the coverage.

At times he does go to the tougher area to battle...

But..

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The SDA and Stotts picks are interesting, and I'm fully behind them, but sometimes I wonder if scouts/ management teams outsmart themselves at the draft. There was a borderline first round talent re-entering the draft in Adam Mascherin, who had already done things we now hope these other two develop enough to do. Yes other teams passed on him too, and sure maybe our guys end up better/ he doesn't pan out, but a 30 goal/ 60 point U21 AHL season (currently on pace for) is something we can currently only dream of from our picks.

Mascherin had limited upside. SDA was always an upside pick, while Stotts had similar upside but at a much more valuable position. SDA was also at a more valuable position.

The Leafs do not typically have trouble finding good, high energy wingers.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Stop bringing up the same narrative again. He wasnt scratched because of performance or wasnt good enough. They were bringing him in slowly. Keefe basically said the same thing last year.
"We just think that there’s a lot of gains to be made physically for him so we’ve made that the focus for him in the early going so because of that he hasn’t played as much,” Marlies coach Sheldon Keefe said. “It’s been hard him, but he’s handled it as well or better that we could expect frankly.
“It’s been hard for a guy that has had a lot of success coming in here and things generally come easy for him, by design we’ve made it hard and he’s responded extremely well.”
"You know, he's a young guy that has worked extremely hard off the ice, and we have tried to get him up to speed as much as we can. I am not one bit concerned about how much of Jeremy Bracco produces offensively. I am more worried about the details in his game, and i'm really happy with the progress he had made in that. The offense is gonna come. He's an elite offensive player. As he adjusts to the league, and gets stronger and faster, that stuff is gonna come out, but we've been really happy with his progress so far.

You can keep ignoring it though.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm judging him based on how well he's played, and how productive he is relative to his peers.

You and others want to pretend being scratched for half the year is fine and doesn't matter. It does. Connor Brown lead the Marlies in scoring and put up over 60 points as a rookie. Bracco was a scratch. Make the comparison.

But again, we've already had this conversation multiple times, and we aren't going to get any further this time, so let's just drop it.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Mascherin had limited upside. SDA was always an upside pick, while Stotts had similar upside but at a much more valuable position. SDA was also at a more valuable position.

The Leafs do not typically have trouble finding good, high energy wingers.

He is the 5th highest scoring rookie in the AHL this season, he also refused to sign with Florida,..i wouldn't consider him a high energy guy?

 

[4thline]

Mascherin had limited upside.

If you describe 20+ goal top 6 upside as limited... sure. He's built heavy enough to play in traffic, has the hands and head to play with skilled players, good nose for the net, and an absolutely filthy shot.

Whether we picked him 31 in 16 or 76/83 in 18 he'd be in a neck and neck battle for our top forward prospect with Grundstrom.

He has upside, and he's much closer to reaching it.

 

[stickty111]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm judging him based on how well he's played, and how productive he is relative to his peers.

You and others want to pretend being scratched for half the year is fine and doesn't matter. It does. Connor Brown lead the Marlies in scoring and put up over 60 points as a rookie. Bracco was a scratch. Make the comparison.

But again, we've already had this conversation multiple times, and we aren't going to get any further this time, so let's just drop it.

You're the one who brought it up, so dont say "lets just drop it".
You want to pretend being scratched was a bad thing, and it matters. Connor Brown played on a team that didnt have a lot of depth. He also got a lot more ice time. I dont need to make the comparison since there isnt one.
You arent evaluating him on his production only, as your also pointing out he was scratched, which makes it clear your judging him on other factors.
Its fair to say Bracco was a scratch, but maybe understand the reason for it.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He is the 5th highest scoring rookie in the AHL this season, he also refused to sign with Florida,..i wouldn't consider him a high energy guy?

Kind of a moot point, considering he ended up going lower than he did the first time. He did not develop as much as he was expected to, or else he would have been drafted higher than he was, not lower.

If you describe 20+ goal top 6 upside as limited... sure. He's built heavy enough to play in traffic, has the hands and head to play with skilled players, good nose for the net, and an absolutely filthy shot.

Whether we picked him 31 in 16 or 76/83 in 18 he'd be in a neck and neck battle for our top forward prospect with Grundstrom.

He has upside, and he's much closer to reaching it.

Mascherin does not drive his lines. He'd have to survive in the NHL as a complimentary player, which is what he doing right now in the AHL with high end AHL players. He would also have to survive as one who, as far as I have seen, does not have a noticeable defensive game or adds an additional dimension like playing on the PK. Which a lot of the more desirable ones have, including Grundstrom.

The Leafs took SDA because he drove his lines, and had the skills to continue doing that at higher levels (especially as he got better complimentary players), and they took Stotts because he was an all-around complimentary player (PP, PK, complimenting and even occasionally leading a high end line at 18) who was capable of sticking at center going forward. Things that Mascherin did not have when it was time for the Leafs to make a selection, and things that have not changed enough (on top of some pretty successful seasons from SDA and Stotts) to really warrant regret in their picks at this point.

 

[DoobieDubas]

If you describe 20+ goal top 6 upside as limited... sure. He's built heavy enough to play in traffic, has the hands and head to play with skilled players, good nose for the net, and an absolutely filthy shot.

Whether we picked him 31 in 16 or 76/83 in 18 he'd be in a neck and neck battle for our top forward prospect with Grundstrom.

He has upside, and he's much closer to reaching it.

I wanted him for one of our picks i remember glad to see how he is progressing. Reminds me of Kreider.

 

[Rich247]

I was never that high on Bracco because he hadn't performed all that well before this year. This year he's performing way better. I regret nothing.

Haters will always be haters. Bracco has played in total games less than a full season and presently is in top 15 in points and 1st in assists in the ahl. The kid has always had the ability to make the players on his line look great. If the maple leafs can't use that talent correctly then they should trade him. I'm sure that he will show us what he can do in the nhl once he gets there. People have been saying that he is not a good player since he was 12 but every where he plays the team win and he is always a positive part of that teams success. Let's see where he ends up in the scoring race at the end of the year. Maybe if he finishes in the top 10 you will have something good to say.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Gordeev offically going to Guelph. Phillips is also going there so Guelph had a good (and very expensive) day.

Problem is that Gordeev is not the number 1 there. He may not even be the number 2. Depending on how they stack their lines, he may be on the bottom pairing. That is not much unlike the situation Mattinen faced last year going from Flint to Hamilton. We all know how that turned out.

 

[Duke16]

Gordeev offically going to Guelph. Phillips is also going there so Guelph had a good (and very expensive) day.

Problem is that Gordeev is not the number 1 there. He may not even be the number 2. Depending on how they stack their lines, he may be on the bottom pairing. That is not much unlike the situation Mattinen faced last year going from Flint to Hamilton. We all know how that turned out.

I'd imagine he'll still be on PP2, but getting Phillips threw a wrench in his potential ice time. Very likely behind Samorukov and Phillips.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Is Sandin returning in time for these back to back games? Any updates on Liljegren’s progress?

 

[Knies iT]

Is Sandin returning in time for these back to back games? Any updates on Liljegren’s progress?

Supposedly Sandin himself doesn't even know what Toronto's plans are with him. Said he's still living out of a hotel and isn't sure what the direction is post-WJC.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Do you roll the dice on Ryan McGregor?