Markov signs with AK Bars (KHL) [MOD WARNING POST 60]

[Laurentide]

I wasn't saying that.

Okay let me be clear.

Imagine the Habs draft Hughes next year and he puts up 80-100 per season but the Habs otherwise are terrible and despite him being one of the elite players of his generation the team around him never wins. He wins two Harts and three Art Ross trophies but no ring.

No number retirement because of a team accomplishment? It's silly.

In the unlikely event that a player could have a career like that without winning a Cup then perhaps there would be a conversation to be had. But over the first 109 years of their existence, this has not been an issue for the Habs. Their best players always made the HHOF and managed to win at least one Cup.

The issue as it relates to guys like Markov and Koivu is moot as far as I'm concerned. Neither one of them will likely make the HHOF and they didn't win any hardware to speak of.

By your definition, we may as well retire Theodore's #60 because he won the Hart and the Vezina.

 

[ArtPeur]

In the unlikely event that a player could have a career like that without winning a Cup then perhaps there would be a conversation to be had. But over the first 109 years of their existence, this has not been an issue for the Habs. Their best players always made the HHOF and managed to win at least one Cup.

The issue as it relates to guys like Markov and Koivu is moot as far as I'm concerned. Neither one of them will likely make the HHOF and they didn't win any hardware to speak of.

By your definition, we may as well retire Theodore's #60 because he won the Hart and the Vezina.

Theodore didn't play all his career with the Habs. He didn't beat or came close to any team's record.

Markov actually sits with some of the great names this team had in history (for games played and points as a defenseman). I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that this team always has been mediocre when he was injured. That said, I don't believe he'll make HHoF until very late. He's going to be honored by the management at some point and will likely make the Habs' HHoF. You could argue that he's had a better (habs) career than Soiku had.

 

[Laurentide]

Theodore didn't play all his career with the Habs. He didn't beat or came close to any team's record.

Markov actually sits with some of the great names this team had in history (for games played and points as a defenseman). I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that this team always has been mediocre when he was injured. That said, I don't believe he'll make HHoF until very late. He's going to be honored by the management at some point and will likely make the Habs' HHoF. You could argue that he's had a better (habs) career than Soiku had.

Markov should definitely be included in the ring of honor but I don't think he merits a banner. Even so, if the Habs are smart (a stretch, I know) they should keep #79 out of circulation for a few years.

I don't put much stock in games played stats. It's easy to rack up games in an 82 game season. Markov is competing with guys like Doug Harvey who played in an era when the season lasted only 50-60 games. It's not an apples to apples comparison. And if you play long enough and have any offensive ability you can start to come close to some big names from the past in several categories. Even Brisebois is among the leaders in some stats, which is ridiculous.

 

[groovejuice]

I’m not 100% sure, but was there an offer? I thought there was. I’m not defending MB, but didn’t Markov make the choice to leave? I get that he may not have liked the offer, but still...

The point is that during the UFA period Bergevin stopped negotiating with both Markov and Radulov announcing in the media that it was "first come, first served", immediately pitting the two players (who are also friends) against each other. Not long after they both signed elsewhere; a completely predictable outcome.

It was small minded and unprofessional of Bergevin and only served to illustrate further that he's completely unsuitable for the job as an NHL GM.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This.

I loathe Bergevin as much as the next guy but not everything is his fault and not every player he let go was worth keeping. Let's keep in mind that Markov only ended up in the KHL because 30 other NHL teams didn't want him after the Habs let him walk.

Markov stated he didnt want to play for another NHL team. It was Mtl or the K.

Pretty sure another team would've signed him.

 

[MaxDummy]

Honestly, would Markov have been better or worse than Lolzner, Benn and Schlemko this season?

Better, Yes but Markov doesn't make us contenders so who cares

 

[Sorinth]

In the unlikely event that a player could have a career like that without winning a Cup then perhaps there would be a conversation to be had. But over the first 109 years of their existence, this has not been an issue for the Habs. Their best players always made the HHOF and managed to win at least one Cup.

The issue as it relates to guys like Markov and Koivu is moot as far as I'm concerned. Neither one of them will likely make the HHOF and they didn't win any hardware to speak of.

By your definition, we may as well retire Theodore's #60 because he won the Hart and the Vezina.

It's worth pointing out that, it's probably not that unlikely. Ray Bourque had that type of career with Boston but never won the cup until being traded to Colorado. Pavel Bure never won, yet he was one of the best ever. Ovechkin might never win the cup with Washington. Winning the cup has little bearing on how good a player you are.

That said I don't think being a great player is really what retiring a number is about. In my mind it's much more about the emotional connection he had with the fans.

 

[Laurentide]

It's worth pointing out that, it's probably not that unlikely. Ray Bourque had that type of career with Boston but never won the cup until being traded to Colorado. Pavel Bure never won, yet he was one of the best ever. Ovechkin might never win the cup with Washington. Winning the cup has little bearing on how good a player you are.

That said I don't think being a great player is really what retiring a number is about. In my mind it's much more about the emotional connection he had with the fans.

Maybe, but I find that my emotional connection to any given Habs player is directly related to how many Cups he helped win for me.

Saku Koivu is a better human being than Guy Lafleur or Patrick Roy but I'm never going to like Koivu more than I like Lafleur or Roy because Lafleur and Roy won championships, which in the end is all I care about.

 

[admiralcadillac]

In the unlikely event that a player could have a career like that without winning a Cup then perhaps there would be a conversation to be had. But over the first 109 years of their existence, this has not been an issue for the Habs. Their best players always made the HHOF and managed to win at least one Cup.

The issue as it relates to guys like Markov and Koivu is moot as far as I'm concerned. Neither one of them will likely make the HHOF and they didn't win any hardware to speak of.

By your definition, we may as well retire Theodore's #60 because he won the Hart and the Vezina.

Well Markov's got a gagarin

 

[mariolemieux66]

Well Markov's got a gagarin

I wonder how hard is it to win the Gagarin with all the corruption and intimidation in Russia.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I wonder how hard is it to win the Gagarin with all the corruption and intimidation in Russia.

Putin's team did not win

 

[mariolemieux66]

Putin's team did not win

Is it Moscow CSKA?

 

[Treb]

Is it Moscow CSKA?

It was SKA St. Petersburgh.

It was loaded with Kovalchuk, Gusev, Datsyuk, Shipachyov, Voynov, Shestyorkin etc.

Also this: KHL's SKA St. Petersburg Posts OT Win on Offside Goal

 

[NotProkofievian]

It was SKA St. Petersburgh.

It was loaded with Kovalchuk, Gusev, Datsyuk, Shipachyov, Voynov, Shestyorkin etc.

Also this: KHL's SKA St. Petersburg Posts OT Win on Offside Goal

Holy shit.

 

[Schwang]

The point is that during the UFA period Bergevin stopped negotiating with both Markov and Radulov announcing in the media that it was "first come, first served", immediately pitting the two players (who are also friends) against each other. Not long after they both signed elsewhere; a completely predictable outcome.

It was small minded and unprofessional of Bergevin and only served to illustrate further that he's completely unsuitable for the job as an NHL GM.

True, but Markov could have signed. It WAS his choice. I’m not defending MB in any way though. With the season they had, Markov wouldn’t have made much of a difference anyway

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Would've rather Markov finished his hockey career here in Montreal, but I am glad with the way things turned out.

Markov got to stay in Russia and win a championship which was nice to see.

Without Markov, we improved our draft position since we ended up playing plugs like Alzner/Benn more.