Proposal: Mark Stone to CBJ

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Im sure if the money is right he would 0 hesitation. He has.a.number in mind and of we hit it he will sign it. I personally wouldnt want stone so im not fighting to sign him but to claim he wouldnt sign to come to the most promising young team outside of maybe 1 or 2 teams is crazy.

What makes this the most promising team outside of maybe 1 or 2 teams?

There is a very real possibility Columbus falls off the map in 8 months if/when their two best players walk out to FA or if Jarmo trades them in Bob and Panarin

Take those two off the team for futures and Columbus goes right back to a team on the fringe of wildcard team, especially since Panarin is all but guaranteed to walk

Not trolling, but even as a Jackets fan you have to admit its a STRONG possibility and it would be a collateral damage hit to lose both
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Here's the hypothetical deal, as worked out on January 1st : Stone agrees to an $8m 6 year deal with Columbus, with a NTC. Ottawa agrees to send Stone for Bjorkstrand, Texier, and 1st rounder.



Dude it's a hypothetical. You should be able to think in terms of hypotheticals. Everything on the trade boards is a kind of hypothetical.

And no it's not crazy to think Stone would like to go to Columbus. 3rd best U23 core in the league, per the rankings Pronman put out yesterday. 2nd place U25 core according to Dom, last year. Winning probably sounds good to Mark right now. Riley Nash and Anthony Duclair just took less $ to join the Jackets. Bobrovsky is upset because he wants to stay, and the FO is not willing to pay. The Panarin case is the exception, not the rule.


Again, and if Panarin and Bob walk next summer:
A) they will not have a vezina level replacement for Bob and likely not even close to it so they are letting in more goals especially since bob is exceptional 5v5 I recall (without digging into nerd stats)
B) they will not have the highest scorer in franchise history so they will be scoring less

More goals against
less goals for

on a team that had what, the 7th best record in the East last year? CBJ dont look nearly so promising, despite a nice pipeline, if those two leave. They will be very much middle of the pack and the only thing that will keep them competitive is a solid blue line.
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Im sure if the money is right he would 0 hesitation. He has.a.number in mind and of we hit it he will sign it. I personally wouldnt want stone so im not fighting to sign him but to claim he wouldnt sign to come to the most promising young team outside of maybe 1 or 2 teams is crazy.

And not saying CBJ is in the same boat, but counting chickens before they hatch never really materialize.

EDM and BUF have been "promising" for the better part of the last decade and still cant ice teams that consistently even get to the playoffs

Hell, Toronto is already all in and already starting to run into contract issues and they havent gone anywhere either
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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What makes this the most promising team outside of maybe 1 or 2 teams?

There is a very real possibility Columbus falls off the map in 8 months if/when their two best players walk out to FA or if Jarmo trades them in Bob and Panarin

Take those two off the team for futures and Columbus goes right back to a team on the fringe of wildcard team, especially since Panarin is all but guaranteed to walk

Not trolling, but even as a Jackets fan you have to admit its a STRONG possibility and it would be a collateral damage hit to lose both
Before Panarin got here we actually had a better team stats and record wise. And with Bob we arguably have or best organizational strength in goalies. Now does it hurt undoubtedly but it also clears 18mil in cap space. We will likely let them both walk if thats what they want. Trading either hurts if people only offer futures which is why we only trade him signed to get the best offers.

And I said the most promisong young teams. We have had the youngest team in the league the majority of the last 2 years and we are still going to be probably top 5 in that area again and we have a top 5-7 team in the east top 10-13ish team in the league. We are a legit contender this year for sure and going forward we will have to see how the offseason shakes but we will still likely be AT WORST a wild card team.

I wont argue losing 1 or both hurts but signing stone is basically canceling out the panarin loss as much as possible. Bob is the 9ne that hurts the most but honestly if you are bored sometime in the next week check out our goal up e pipeline. We have some studs right now and of course there are 0 guarantees especially at goaloe but we have at least... 3 or 4 guys Im confident could be a top 20 goalie and with our young D core I think we can make them look better. We will be worse short term for sure but Stone wont worry about the year after that would be uncertain but he would be able to see the future is really looking up.
 

HawkeyTalkMan

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Jun 23, 2015
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Before Panarin got here we actually had a better team stats and record wise. And with Bob we arguably have or best organizational strength in goalies. Now does it hurt undoubtedly but it also clears 18mil in cap space. We will likely let them both walk if thats what they want. Trading either hurts if people only offer futures which is why we only trade him signed to get the best offers.

And I said the most promisong young teams. We have had the youngest team in the league the majority of the last 2 years and we are still going to be probably top 5 in that area again and we have a top 5-7 team in the east top 10-13ish team in the league. We are a legit contender this year for sure and going forward we will have to see how the offseason shakes but we will still likely be AT WORST a wild card team.

I wont argue losing 1 or both hurts but signing stone is basically canceling out the panarin loss as much as possible. Bob is the 9ne that hurts the most but honestly if you are bored sometime in the next week check out our goal up e pipeline. We have some studs right now and of course there are 0 guarantees especially at goaloe but we have at least... 3 or 4 guys Im confident could be a top 20 goalie and with our young D core I think we can make them look better. We will be worse short term for sure but Stone wont worry about the year after that would be uncertain but he would be able to see the future is really looking up.

Thats totally fair. The only thing I disagree with is the "at worst" part you are a wild card team. The east will continue to be a dog fight.

Teams not going anywhere from playoff near locks the next 2-3 years:
Washington
Tampa
Pittsburgh
Boston
Toronto

Teams on the rise:
New Jersey
Columbus
Carolina
Philadelphia
Buffalo (hesitated here, but if Eichel takes another step and now that they have Dahlin who knows, have Skinner now but net is still weak)
Florida

Throw away teams:
Montreal
New York Rangers (for the next two years IMO)
New York Islanders
Detroit
Ottawa

All I'm saying is after those top 5, Columbus is in a dog fight for the next few years in slots 6-10. Especially if Florida, Buffalo, Carolina ever take the next step. Philly pipeline is ready to burst especially on the blue line. NJ is already right there
 

Patagonia

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It's a hypothetical, where we assume Mark Stone agrees to sign with the Jackets.

Our job in this thread is to evaluate this return for the Senators. It really shouldn't be this hard.

The problem with your proposal is CBJ have bigger issues with their players. Not only are they trying to find a team for Panarin which has acknowledged his intention to leave for a bigger market, but their Goalie looking for a raise even though he is among the highest paid players in the league.

Why would CBJ add this headache from Ottawa when they have more important issues? They can wait after next season to get him for $$$. You can hope Ottawa gets a good return, but given they received little with EK and Hoffman don’t be so arrogant to believe CBJ is dumb enough to consider your proposal.
 

mikeyp24

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Carolina and NJ dont bother me but I agree with the rest. And Buffalo is actually the other team I mean when I said young core along woth Toronto. They just have so many great young talent I think they have a chance to catch fire. But I see Pitt and Wash both on the verge of Dog fight teams. Both had bog stuggles at points last year and their best players are not getting any younger. To be a WC you just need to be top 8 and I have faith that with those 10 teams listed we can beat 2. You are making very fair and legit points I just feel like as far as people not wanting to sign in Columbus like in the past when we were just starting as an org things have dramatically changed. The arena is one of the top 5 to 7 in the league as far as players have talked about it, the fans are always considered one of the loudest crowds late season and playoff time, the coaches and upper management are greatly respected and considered some of the better in the league, we have as stated in a few leagues a u23 and u25 core that is considered top 3 in both catagories i think was the spot vould be top 5 but I think it was 3 for 1 and 2 for the other. Our D core is tops and people respect our team leaders like Foligno and Jones across the league, and finally Columbus is always ranked one of the fastest growing cities and one of the top cities to raise families in surveys while being one of the top 20 in population.

There are obviously cities like LA NY and CHI that are desirable for city/club life and marketing money but if you ask players who have played here or are playing here a lot of them want to move here after retirement and many want to end their careers here because how much they love it. A great example is Letestu who hadnt played here in years before the TDL and he was already building a house here for his family after retirement.


TL;DR even if we lose Bob and Bread we are still one of the more desirable spots to sign say if we dont get him in a trade in UFA. That Bread money could easily be Stones.
 

Viqsi

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Oct 5, 2007
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The problem with your proposal is CBJ have bigger issues with their players. Not only are they trying to find a team for Panarin which has acknowledged his intention to leave for a bigger market, but their Goalie looking for a raise even though he is among the highest paid players in the league.

Why would CBJ add this headache from Ottawa when they have more important issues? They can wait after next season to get him for $$$. You can hope Ottawa gets a good return, but given they received little with EK and Hoffman don’t be so arrogant to believe CBJ is dumb enough to consider your proposal.
Hon? major major is a Jackets fan. He's a regular on our boards.

The idea behind acquiring Stone is that he ought to be more amenable to staying than Panarin. He's basically a replacement for that role, or at least as good a one as we can (hypothetically) get.
 

Patagonia

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Hon? major major is a Jackets fan. He's a regular on our boards.

The idea behind acquiring Stone is that he ought to be more amenable to staying than Panarin. He's basically a replacement for that role, or at least as good a one as we can (hypothetically) get.

The players being offered is far too much for a possible rental. Consider the return for EK, cut the offer in half as being reasonable.

Stone is a fantastic player, just don’t think he would extend with any team. He can only resign after Jan. 01st, so there is big risk with only a few months to get a deal done before reaching UFA.
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
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The players being offered is far too much for a possible rental. Consider the return for EK, cut the offer in half as being reasonable.

Stone is a fantastic player, just don’t think he would extend with any team. He can only resign after Jan. 01st, so there is big risk with only a few months to get a deal done before reaching UFA.
I wouldn't mind trying to get him for less... but keep in mind that the OP says right there that one of the stipulations is that Stone extends.
 

Cotton

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May 13, 2013
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CBJ gets Mark Stone signed long term.

OTT gets Oliver Bjorkstrand, Alexander Texier, and a 1st round pick.


Bjorkstrand has a special scoring touch, last year's 11 goals is low for him. Texier is a boom/bust type drafted out of France, if Ottawa prefers a steadier player like Gavrikov I think that would be an okay substitute. Both are worth a late 1st/ early 2nd approximately. And of course, to satisfy Melnyk, very little salary is going to Ottawa.

Mark Stone doesn't need a summary. The Jackets can afford him this year no problem and next year no problem if one or both of Bobrovsky and Panarin walk.


*** Can Mark Stone sign an extension now, given that he just signed a one-way deal? I seem to remember something about waiting until 6 months have passed. In any case, I think the Jackets would be able to work out the terms before he arrives, perhaps the pick is made conditional just in case.

That's not a very good return for a signed long-term Mark Stone, I can't imagine any Sens fan would think that's reasonable.
 

Patagonia

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I wouldn't mind trying to get him for less... but keep in mind that the OP says right there that one of the stipulations is that Stone extends.

This is the problem about getting a deal. He requested Arbitration which lowered his market value to contracts until after Jan 01.
 

major major

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The problem with your proposal is CBJ have bigger issues with their players. Not only are they trying to find a team for Panarin which has acknowledged his intention to leave for a bigger market, but their Goalie looking for a raise even though he is among the highest paid players in the league.

Why would CBJ add this headache from Ottawa when they have more important issues? They can wait after next season to get him for $$$. You can hope Ottawa gets a good return, but given they received little with EK and Hoffman don’t be so arrogant to believe CBJ is dumb enough to consider your proposal.

There's no headache from Ottawa. It's Mark Stone, signed long term, as stated in the OP.

Though I'm also happy to rent Stone, and go for it with all the big UFAs to be. The return of course would not include Bjorkstrand, unless Ottawa adds. I think it would make for a really fun playoffs, damn the torpedos.
 

mikeyp24

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If I am Ottawa, I am asking for Nuti+1st
Not unfair but not really doable for the CBJ. We only have Jones and Savard as true RHD and we moved Nuti to that side last year. I see Savard as movable with Peake, Gavrikov, Carlson, and Kukan all being NHL ready so having Nuti a guy who can responsibly be a RD is too important.

So if you want to switch Nuti to Carlson, Peake, Savard, or Murray then add in a young F or pure prospect and add a 4th on top of the 1st... ok. But Nuti because of our RD situation isnt really going to be workable unless a RD is coming back that can fit in our top 4.
 

blankall

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How about last week? It's been reported that the essentials of the Pacioretty contract were worked out with Vegas prior to the trade with Montreal.

I agree that the goodness of the contract bears on the return. I'd love to discuss the deal with a specific contract in mind, say 8m x 6 years, NTC. But people have a hard time with hypotheticals on the boards, as your post evinces.
That was a trade and sign. That's different as the player retains control over where they go.
 

major major

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That was a trade and sign. That's different as the player retains control over where they go.

In practice, for most people, they're both called "sign and trade", and so I'm going to stick with that. I will continue to call the Pacioretty, Turris, and Andersen deals "sign and trades", because the deals were worked out prior to the trades.
 

TeamRenzo

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Let me guess, we should look for pennies on the dollar? Stone is a first line winger and one of the best two-way forwards in the game, if Ottawa was to trade an extended Stone it would be market value.
 

blankall

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In practice, for most people, they're both called "sign and trade", and so I'm going to stick with that. I will continue to call the Pacioretty, Turris, and Andersen deals "sign and trades", because the deals were worked out prior to the trades.

There is a big difference. In the trade and sign the player puts big limitations on which teams they go to, and this can vastly decrease trade value.

That being said I think Vegas overpaid for Pacioretty in both trade value and the new contract. Other teams must have both been in on the trade and had assurances of an extension from Pacioretty.
 

major major

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There is a big difference. In the trade and sign the player puts big limitations on which teams they go to, and this can vastly decrease trade value.

I can understand the importance of the distinction. We should have different words for them. I don't know if the phrase "trade-and-sign" is going to clarify things for people though, it suggests the trade happens before negotiation between the player and his new team.

Maybe "negotiated sign and trade", though that isn't going to be obvious to everyone either.
 

blankall

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I can understand the importance of the distinction. We should have different words for them. I don't know if the phrase "trade-and-sign" is going to clarify things for people though, it suggests the trade happens before negotiation between the player and his new team.

Maybe "negotiated sign and trade", though that isn't going to be obvious to everyone either.
I'll also add that Pacioretty did his team a bit of a favor by agreeing to a trade that maximized his value. Although he signed a great deal so obviously he also had lots of his own incentives.

I doubt that Stone wants to do any favors for Ottawa. However, he may want to cash in on the monster season be just had. If Stone thinks he can repeat last season, he will be far more inclined to wait until free agency.
 

major major

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Feb 18, 2013
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I'll also add that Pacioretty did his team a bit of a favor by agreeing to a trade that maximized his value. Although he signed a great deal so obviously he also had lots of his own incentives.

I doubt that Stone wants to do any favors for Ottawa. However, he may want to cash in on the monster season be just had. If Stone thinks he can repeat last season, he will be far more inclined to wait until free agency.

Well like most players, the sooner he signs the better. Especially with his injury history and an unstable situation in Ottawa. Moving to a winner has to be appealing.
 

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