Mario too slow??

[Crossroads*]

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.

I bet you're just saying that because Mario has a french last name and Wayne doesn't.

 

[Masao]

Back in the late 80s/early 90s, I never heard anyone saying that Mario was too slow.



Fast as Coffey?!?!?? Don't think so...

That was the main bang on Mario back then. I remember Al Arbour insiting that Mario being slow was a major misconception and that it was really only by skating alongside him that one could realize how fast he really was.

And yes, in his prime, Mario could skate with Coffey without any problems.

 

[David]

That was the main bang on Mario back then. I remember Al Arbour insiting that Mario being slow was a major misconception and that it was really only by skating alongside him that one could realize how fast he really was.

And yes, in his prime, Mario could skate with Coffey without any problems.

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

David, I won't disagree with your assessment that Lemieux is slowing down - he is nearly 40. I'll even go as far as to say that his hands aren't exactly what they used to be - at least when referring to his one-on-one skills and shot accuracy and release.

However it really is unfair to compare the amount of goals he has potted now as compared to then. Aside from the fact that he concentrates almost solely on playmaking now, as he has stated, more importantly the landscape of the game itself has changed dramtically.

Even as seemingly short a time ago as 96 the league fostered a more skate and skill type of play, as opposed to lumbering through the neutral zone wearing two other players as capes and not getting a call.

His vision is still unsurpassed, IMO and his skating, while not St. Louis-like isn't awful. It would be cause for concern if he were unable to backcheck effectivly, but he has aquitted himself well in that regard this tourny I think.

In any case, he is still an asset to team Canada, and hasn't been a do-nothing bum by any stretch of the imagination. You could ask Hull about that though.

 

[Masao]

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

I have about 30 games on VHS from the late 80s when Lemieux and Coffey played together and although Lemieux didn't look particularly fast back then he had no problems getting from point A to point B as fast as Paul Coffey did.

When both are skating at full speed next to each other, it's close as heck.

The only thing is that Coffey was always more "energetic." He would rush at full speed with the puck something like a dozen times per period while Mario would always work behind the scenes and look relaxed as if he was pacing himself. But when Mario decided to go as fast as he could, he was as fast as Coffey. I'm not making this up, man I'm just describing what I saw.

 

[David]

Aside from the fact that he concentrates almost solely on playmaking now, as he has stated, more importantly the landscape of the game itself has changed dramtically.

Lemieux has never been a play maker...always a goal scorer (and the most B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L to watch one in history)...just the fact that you are saying that he wants to concentrate on playmaking speaks VOLUMES.

Even as seemingly short a time ago as 96 the league fostered a more skate and skill type of play, as opposed to lumbering through the neutral zone wearing two other players as capes and not getting a call.

Regardless of whether you're wearing 2 players or 10 players, when the Sakics and Iginlas of the world are out playing you, Lemieux himself must realize that he is no longer what he used to be.

In any case, he is still an asset to team Canada, and hasn't been a do-nothing bum by any stretch of the imagination. You could ask Hull about that though.

Never said he wasn't an asset to the team but no longer in the way that he used to be. I think that he's a tremendous asset just with his presence...calming the kids down and allowing kids like Vinny to play to their potential without panicking even if Luongo lets a soft one in 6 seconds after they get the lead.

 

[David]

I have about 30 games on VHS from the late 80s when Lemieux and Coffey played together and although Lemieux didn't look particularly fast back then he had no problems getting from point A to point B as fast as Paul Coffey did.

When both are skating at full speed next to each other, it's close as heck.

The only thing is that Coffey was always more "energetic." He would rush at full speed with the puck something like a dozen times per period while Mario would always work behind the scenes and look relaxed as if he was pacing himself. But when Mario decided to go as fast as he could, he was as fast as Coffey. I'm not making this up, man I'm just describing what I saw.

Well, I have about 100 games on VHS from the late 80s when...oh never mind...

 

[Bubbles]

A little OT, but I will always remember that time in Salt Lake City when he let that pass go through his skates onto Paul Kariya's stick and in the net. Absolute magic.

 

[Masao]

A little OT, but I will always remember that time in Salt Lake City when he let that pass go through his skates onto Paul Kariya's stick and in the net. Absolute magic.

What I remember most about that goal was my friends' reaction. I was watching it at a pal's home with 6 or 7 guys and all of them except me made fun of Mario and were saying that he tried to shoot it but fanned and lost his balance then was lucky that Kariya was there to bail him out of embarassment to score the goal.

Of course, I was the only one who disagreed

 

[High flyin' Habs*]

I bet you're just saying that because Mario has a french last name and Wayne doesn't.

What's your problem?? Im not even French! Get yout facts straite before you attack others .

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Lemieux has never been a play maker...always a goal scorer (and the most B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L to watch one in history)...just the fact that you are saying that he wants to concentrate on playmaking speaks VOLUMES.

Never a playmaker? Sure he's the best goalscorer in history but the guy has averaged over an assist per game in his career. His playmaking and vision has always been only surpassed by Gretzky. I do agree with you though, Mario is nowhere near what he used to be. If i had to quantify it, he's only about 50% of what he used to be. That's what is just so crazy though, when you realize how good he still is at near 40, and then you realize he was literally twice as good 10-15 years ago.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

Gretzky, a plumber???!???!!! WHO are you guys?

We represent the Worldwide Association for the Valorisation of Worldwide Plumbers, Worldwide.
But you might know us better as the "WAVWPW".

 

[kurt]

Lemieux is unbelievable

My goodness, I can't believe how many of you are out for Lemieux's blood.

Look the last few season's totals for Mario.

2003-04, 10 GP, 1 G 9A (1 PPG)
2002-03, 67 GP, 28 G 63 A (1.36 PPG)
2001-02, 24 GP, 6 G 25 A (1.29 PPG)
2000-01, 43 GP, 35 G, 41 A (1.77 pPG)

2002 Olympics, 5 GP, 2G, 4A (1.2 PPG)
2004 World Cup, 5 GP, 1G, 3A (0.8 PPG)

Now, I know that it's impossible to say whether or not Lemieux would have been able to maintain a 1 PPG average throughout the season last year, but if he did, he would have been tied for 5th in league scoring with Marian Hossa. You should also take a look at Lemieux's supporting cast in Pittsburg. They have no depth, so it's pretty easy for opposition to keep their best defensive units out there keeping him in check.

Of course the guy isn't averaging 150 points per season anymore. The 80's-90's era of hockey is long gone, and the guy is pushing 40.

Criticize all you want, but I can't think of anyone who I'd rather have wearing the C for Team Canada, and completing Canada's top line.

 

[roast]

Regardless of what some may thing, Lemieux is still an important part to team Canada and the Penguins. I think if the NHL season starts, he will again contend for the art ross. He may not be as fast, but it really doesn't matter since he thinks on a different level of the game than almost all players. Also, i never heard him compared to Paul Coffey in terms of skating ability. I got to see them both in Pittsburgh several times, and while both were great, Coffey was on another level by himself.

 

[Rogalo]

Yeah he's slow, but he also makes plays that no one in the world can make anymore, ones that no one else made since Gretz was still around. I'm no fan of Mario's, but his creativity and downright ability to make near impossible plays possible, makes him pretty valuable to this team. Its something an opposing team can't really prepare for, because its not anything they can predict.

He might be slow but f... that! Guess who made the whole play before the second goal in the Canada - Czech Rep possible. Every other player would have chased the puck after the pass Mario got in the neutral zone. But instead of that he somehow got it under control from mid air so it landed right infront of him, than passed it to a free player and seconds later scored the goal on 2:0. I don´t like Canadian hockey, but I have to admit that move was brilliant!

 

[Teezax]

I concur that Mario is a weak point on first scoring line, he is molasses out there, and some of his passes make you wonder WTF he's thinking, but it's still Mario, and his presence alone is worth having him here.

 

[Masao]

Mario is a weak point on first scoring line

he is molasses out there

some of his passes make you wonder WTF he's thinking

I hope that's sarcastic

 

[H/H]

Lemieux has never been a play maker...

Uhh, what!? The guy is second only to Gretzky in career assists-per-game and he's always had more assists than goals except for one season. I don't think I've ever seen another player make such beautiful passes with the backhand.

 

[David]

Uhh, what!? The guy is second only to Gretzky in career assists-per-game and he's always had more assists than goals except for one season. I don't think I've ever seen another player make such beautiful passes with the backhand.

Simple math...they award 2 assists for each goal...Mario has always been a goal scorer, first and everything else second. His assists were just by product of his goal scoring...He was even criticized by many for being a puck hog early on.

 

[H/H]

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

 

[Masao]

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

That David guy is the one who said in another topic that Mario had never played physically nor stood up for a teammate before...

 

[clefty]

Lemieux has never been a play maker

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

Ironic.

 

[David]

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

Mario played a good game tonight and made a some good plays. He was also good defensively. He even batted the puck out of the air and turned it into a pretty good scoring chance. However, he didn't go on any breakaways and wasn't the artist on the ice that he used to be.

Has he lost his magic? Only time will tell, when they start playing again...around mid Jan, I'd say...but it did look like it was gone for long stretches this tournament but tonight and the last game, he looked pretty good as a set up man and a very good defensive forward.

Just because Mario plays a handful of games where his primary function was to set up guys and play defensively well doesn't change the fact that he used to be a one man wrecking crew offensively, never needing another to score a goal but merely using his long reach and the most physically gifted body and exceptional hockey sense to embarass the opposition.

Judging by some of your comments and reactions, I can pretty well guess how old some of you are...

It was a good tournament but sadly it's over...good night to everybody and let's pray that there's hockey before January. Because the last time this happened, I remember that hockey withdrawal was something awful!

 

[deandebean]

Mario has lost a step, it's a given, nobody can argue that. But it's a shame the tourney is ending because I was sensing that the guy was getting his hands back. This guy has the sweetest hand movement in the history of the league. You could sense that even the Finns were in awe.

I can proudly say to my son that I have seen the most prolific pointgetter play (Gretzky), and I've seen the most talented player in the history of the game play(Mario).

 

[Til the End of Time]

Just because Mario plays a handful of games where his primary function was to set up guys and play defensively well doesn't change the fact that he used to be a one man wrecking crew offensively, never needing another to score a goal but merely using his long reach and the most physically gifted body and exceptional hockey sense to embarass the opposition.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Lemieux at 38 is not the same player he was in his prime?

Well obviously. Any semi-intelligent person realizes that people become worse players as the near the end of their careers. I don't think you will find anyone that says Mario is as good now as he was when he had 199 points.

So thank you for pointing out the obvious.