Mario = Michael

crosbyshow

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Aug 25, 2017
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Talent wise, in sports in the 90s...Roy Jones jr has To be in the mix.

From 1993 To 2002 , Jones was Superman!

Amazing To watch!
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Mario is a far better human being that Michael Jordan could ever wish to be. The Last Dance is heavily edited to Michael's favor since it's his own production company doing it, it's a very skewed look. I grew up a massive Scottie Pippen fan and always felt he was disrespected by that team and Jordan for years and now you see this doc and he's suddenly praising him? It's like Jordan is doing this to sort of clean up his own legacy.

The guy had a barrage of pornstars and hookers coming in and out of his hotel rooms on the road, like most basketball players from the 70 to 90's. Jordan was always about himself.

Mario wasn't a saint, at times, he was a coach killer himself with his country club atmosphere, but what he's done since he retired is a true test of his actual legacy, the foundations, charities, saving his own team which first was to get his money back but then an eye opener for what it turned into. Then the overall stats.

MJ might go down as one of the best, but not THE best.
Mario had the trajectory of going down as the best player to play the game, if he wasn't battling cancer, a back defect, or a heart issue, the guy was going to blow through Gretzky's records.

Mario isn't = to Jordan.
Mario is > Jordan.

Also, Jordan owns a team and it's been mostly shit under his ownership.

Meanwhile, Mario & Co have turned the Penguins into one franchises in sports to model after.


Edit: Jordan does own majority of the Hornets.
 
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Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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Mario is a far better human being that Michael Jordan could ever wish to be. The Last Dance is heavily edited to Michael's favor since it's his own production company doing it, it's a very skewed look. I grew up a massive Scottie Pippen fan and always felt he was disrespected by that team and Jordan for years and now you see this doc and he's suddenly praising him? It's like Jordan is doing this to sort of clean up his own legacy.

The guy had a barrage of pornstars and hookers coming in and out of his hotel rooms on the road, like most basketball players from the 70 to 90's. Jordan was always about himself.

Mario wasn't a saint, at times, he was a coach killer himself with his country club atmosphere, but what he's done since he retired is a true test of his actual legacy, the foundations, charities, saving his own team which first was to get his money back but then an eye opener for what it turned into. Then the overall stats.

MJ might go down as one of the best, but not THE best.
Mario had the trajectory of going down as the best player to play the game, if he wasn't battling cancer, a back defect, or a heart issue, the guy was going to blow through Gretzky's records.

Mario isn't = to Jordan.
Mario is > Jordan.

Also, Jordan owns a team and it's been mostly shit under his ownership.

Meanwhile, Mario & Co have turned the Penguins into one franchises in sports to model after.


Edit: Jordan does own majority of the Hornets.

Dude, yes, just yes!

Exactly that. I kinda dislike The Last Dance too. Way too Michael-centric.

Mario is the best.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Same reason why the English (Canadian) media never speaks of Maurice Richard the way they should. It was even worse with Richard, the league would give phantom assists to guys like Howe to make sure Rocket does not win scoring titles. Maurice Richard was a rebel, they did not like it. Let's say that the Habs were very happy to have Uncle Tom Béliveau as the face of the franchise next (Béliveau was all class, but he was a docile pro-establishment dude). I'd explain further, but it would get too political.

It might not be as bad anymore, but it sure was in the 80s and 90s, not to the extend it was in the 50s, but there was still bias against Lemieux for being French (and hating the media).
Beliveau was closer to the boring PC types that the NHL is about now, Richard was the guy that if you asked him a question, he'd give you the answer the reporters were chomping at the bit to get and not what the ownership wanted their players to say. He was blunt, as you stated, a rebel.
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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Beliveau was closer to the boring PC types that the NHL is about now, Richard was the guy that if you asked him a question, he'd give you the answer the reporters were chomping at the bit to get and not what the ownership wanted their players to say. He was blunt, as you stated, a rebel.

Béliveau was more than PC, he was a sell out.

Guys used to work beer trucks during the Summer... he had a cushy office job.

There is a reason for that and it is not hockey talent. Read the last page of his autobiography and you'll get it. He exposes his political views... and everything clicked in my head. He is an establishment dude.

Once again, sorry I cannot explain more without getting political.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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Béliveau was more than PC, he was a sell out.

Guys used to work beer trucks during the Summer... he had a cushy office job.

There is a reason for that and it is not hockey talent. Read the last page of his autobiography and you'll get it. He exposes his political views... and everything clicked in my head. He is an establishment dude.

Once again, sorry I cannot explain more without getting political.
No worries, I get what you're saying. I remember reading his biography years ago and remembered he was very much a "Daddy's boy" and that was all I needed to know when I read about his youth and how he got to the NHL and political activeness later on.
 

HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
40,117
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Charlotte
  • Both are now owners of teams

Big difference here though.

Mario is by far a better owner than Jordan is and it's not close. I guess you could say Mario is Bulls-Jordan as an owner and Jordan as an owner is Kwame Brown, or something.

Signed, Charlotte Hornets fan.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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May 28, 2006
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Mario is a far better human being that Michael Jordan could ever wish to be. The Last Dance is heavily edited to Michael's favor since it's his own production company doing it, it's a very skewed look. I grew up a massive Scottie Pippen fan and always felt he was disrespected by that team and Jordan for years and now you see this doc and he's suddenly praising him? It's like Jordan is doing this to sort of clean up his own legacy.

The guy had a barrage of pornstars and hookers coming in and out of his hotel rooms on the road, like most basketball players from the 70 to 90's. Jordan was always about himself.

This doesn't matter in the least when evaluating a player, but link?

I couldn't find anything like that. Mistresses? Sure.

Mario wasn't a saint, at times, he was a coach killer himself with his country club atmosphere, but what he's done since he retired is a true test of his actual legacy, the foundations, charities, saving his own team which first was to get his money back but then an eye opener for what it turned into. Then the overall stats.

The country club atmosphere is part of his legacy too. That's not something Jordan ever had.

MJ might go down as one of the best, but not THE best.\

C'mon.

Beliveau was closer to the boring PC types that the NHL is about now, Richard was the guy that if you asked him a question, he'd give you the answer the reporters were chomping at the bit to get and not what the ownership wanted their players to say. He was blunt, as you stated, a rebel.

Béliveau was more than PC, he was a sell out.

Guys used to work beer trucks during the Summer... he had a cushy office job.

There is a reason for that and it is not hockey talent.
Read the last page of his autobiography and you'll get it. He exposes his political views... and everything clicked in my head. He is an establishment dude.

Once again, sorry I cannot explain more without getting political.

I mean it's not hard to figure out, and I don't think it has anything to do with being a "sellout".

If any executive thought that a player with no filter who would take baseball swings an opponent's head and punch a linesman would be a better choice for a public relations gig than a diplomatic, well-spoken, class act like Beliveau, they deserve to be fired.

"Volatile" and "rebellious" aren't usually high on the list of desired attributes for public relations gigs.
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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This doesn't matter in the least when evaluating a player, but link?

I couldn't find anything like that. Mistresses? Sure.



The country club atmosphere is part of his legacy too. That's not something Jordan ever had.



C'mon.





I mean it's not hard to figure out, and I don't think it has anything to do with being a "sellout".

If any executive thought that a player with no filter who would take baseball swings an opponent's head and punch a linesman would be a better choice for a public relations gig than a diplomatic, well-spoken, class act like Beliveau, they deserve to be fired.

"Volatile" and "rebellious" aren't usually high on the list of desired attributes for public relations gigs.

I get your point, but that's not how I see it. Not in these important years.

Go read his autobiography... read the last page (his political stance). He is a sellout when compared to Richard.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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I get your point, but that's not how I see it. Not in these important years.

Go read his autobiography... read the last page (his political stance). He is a sellout when compared to Richard.

I have My Life In Hockey and just re-read the last page of the last chapters "A Year Of Discovery" and "Acknowledgements". Still not sure.

Can you give me an idea of what passage you're referring to?
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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I have My Life In Hockey and just re-read the last page of the last chapters "A Year Of Discovery" and "Acknowledgements". Still not sure.

Can you give me an idea of what passage you're referring to?

Epilogue. A passionate stand on how he views Canada.

I mean, I am fine with his views... but they explain his closeness with the Molsons and why the Habs always pimp him more than Richard.

Where they see class, I see a docile yes man.

I admire Richard for what he stood for. I respect Béliveau as a hockey player and as a person, but I do not admire him in the same way.

Nothing wrong with being ok with the establishment and be a company man... but that does not make you a national hero.

I would never write that on the main boards or the Habs board, it would get me crucified. Béliveau is a classy person, but I just cannot admire someone who writes what he wrote in his book. Would have been better to think it and shut up.

Very difficult for me to be clearer without getting TOO political.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Epilogue. A passionate stand on how he views Canada.

I mean, I am fine with his views... but they explain his closeness with the Molsons and why the Habs always pimp him more than Richard.

Where they see class, I see a docile yes man.

I admire Richard for what he stood for. I respect Béliveau as a hockey player and as a person, but I do not admire him in the same way.

Nothing wrong with being ok with the establishment and be a company man... but that does not make you a national hero.

I would never write that on the main boards or the Habs board, it would get me crucified. Béliveau is a classy person, but I just cannot admire someone who writes what he wrote in his book. Would have been better to think it and shut up.

Very difficult for me to be clearer without getting TOO political.

I have the '94 version and there's no epilogue, so I'll have to take your word for it.

I dunno. Sight unseen, these like criticisms that could easily be applied to Crosby.
 

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
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MJ wasn’t a bad person imo. Guy wasn’t nice, but you see the respect and love he garnered from Magic, Bird and others peers he has from that time. I don’t think a bad person would get that. He stuck by Phil Jackson. He took time away from one of the greatest runs in sports to honor his dads dream. His biggest “issues” were that he was hard on teammates bc he cared and he gambled? Ok?

The documentary is about his innate drive to win and how it was literally all he gave a rats butt about for a large part of his life. The energy he invested into doing one thing only.

So I see the parallels between Mario and Jordan in their status but tbh in terms of how he approached the game and mindset I think Crosby is a lot more similar.
 
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Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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I have the '94 version and there's no epilogue, so I'll have to take your word for it.

I dunno. Sight unseen, these like criticisms that could easily be applied to Crosby.

Crosby is not French-Canadian.

Crosby does not play on his local team. A local team that happens to be a beacon of hope for an entire people.

Crosby is not playing in the middle of a very difficult and transformative time period for said people. Crosby did not take a political stance... 40 years later... "AGAINST" some of these proposed changes.

If I had not read the epilogue... I would not have this vision and I would say that your Crosby/Béliveau is comparaison is pretty accurate. I am not even mad at Béliveau for having these views. Plenty of people have them. I have a problem with adding an epilogue years later, when people do not talk about the subject anymore. Why?

I mean, be quiet and classy, follow the rules and be a good employee. Not everyone has to be a rebel. Athletes are allowed to have political opinions. I do not have to agree with them to love them as athletes. This one hits a little close to home and I am not even on the opposite side of Beliveau's position.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Crosby is not French-Canadian.

Crosby does not play on his local team. A local team that happens to be a beacon of hope for an entire people.

Crosby is not playing in the middle of a very difficult and transformative time period for said people. Crosby did not take a political stance... 40 years later... "AGAINST" some of these proposed changes.

If I had not read the epilogue... I would not have this vision and I would say that your Crosby/Béliveau is comparaison is pretty accurate. I am not even mad at Béliveau for having these views. Plenty of people have them. I have a problem with adding an epilogue years later, when people do not talk about the subject anymore. Why?

I mean, be quiet and classy, follow the rules and be a good employee. Not everyone has to be a rebel. Athletes are allowed to have political opinions. I do not have to agree with them to love them as athletes. This one hits a little close to home and I am not even on the opposite side of Beliveau's position.

Kinda true.

Crosby was sort of adopted French Canadian. In absolutely the most Crosby of ways.

He of course played in Montreal, and won them over in that first year by simply being who he is. It was not contrived.

Unlike Eric Lindros, who enraged Quebeckers when he refused to report to the Nordiques after being drafted No. 1 overall by the club in 1991, Mr. Crosby and a handful of other anglophone players from the Maritimes, including Tampa Bay Lightning star Brad Richards, immersed themselves in Rimouski's francophone culture, delighting locals.

"I thought it was the right thing to do in a place where everyone else is French," Mr. Crosby said. "I kind of spoke a little, a word here and there my first year. But by my second year, one night instead of doing my post-game interview in English, when he asked me the question in English I answered in French. Everyone was kind of surprised, but after that I would always do my interviews in French."

'Even with Mario, it was never like this'
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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Kinda true.

Crosby was sort of adopted French Canadian. In absolutely the most Crosby of ways.

He of course played in Montreal, and won them over in that first year by simply being who he is. It was not contrived.



'Even with Mario, it was never like this'

Sid is a hero. Learned the language, adopted the culture, still treat us with love and respect. Even asked Letang to help him prepare something in French for his jersey retirement in Rimouski.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Crosby is not French-Canadian.

Crosby does not play on his local team. A local team that happens to be a beacon of hope for an entire people.

Crosby is not playing in the middle of a very difficult and transformative time period for said people. Crosby did not take a political stance... 40 years later... "AGAINST" some of these proposed changes.

If I had not read the epilogue... I would not have this vision and I would say that your Crosby/Béliveau is comparaison is pretty accurate. I am not even mad at Béliveau for having these views. Plenty of people have them. I have a problem with adding an epilogue years later, when people do not talk about the subject anymore. Why?

I mean, be quiet and classy, follow the rules and be a good employee. Not everyone has to be a rebel. Athletes are allowed to have political opinions. I do not have to agree with them to love them as athletes. This one hits a little close to home and I am not even on the opposite side of Beliveau's position.

It sounds like I'll have to read this epilogue before I can say any more.
 
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harmonica

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Apr 21, 2007
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I question anyone's knowledge of basketball or if they ever actually got to watch either player if they think ML > MJ. This sounds like the same sort of homerism you would find from basketball fans were asked the same question, most probably never heard of Mario. Jordan is still widely considered number one of all time and at his lowest, number 2. Mario doesn't even get those sort of numbers from strictly hockey fans.
 

Captain Hook

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Jul 12, 2007
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It's just hard to compare basketball players and hockey players. Great basketball players can impact the outcome of their games far more because they can play like 90% of the game. A hockey forward like Mario usually only plays about 1/3 of the game. Imagine how much harder it would be to beat a prime Mario or Gretzky etc. if those guys could play 90% of the game.

No non-Pens fan would want to hear the comparison between Jordan/Mario and I get that but I do think Mario may have been even more skilled at hockey than Jordan was at basketball. Jordan won a lot more championships, but like I pointed out earlier, basketball is played in a way that allows it's greats to have a much greater impact on the outcome.
 

HandshakeLine

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Sid is a hero. Learned the language, adopted the culture, still treat us with love and respect. Even asked Letang to help him prepare something in French for his jersey retirement in Rimouski.

Willingness to not only learn another language but use another language that you acquired after childhood is a mark of true character, I think. I also think people should be giving Malkin mad respect because he didn't speak a word of English until he came here and he not only does his daily life in English now, he jokes in it, which is the hardest thing to do in any foreign language.

I wish I had more time in the world to learn French. What little pigeon French I speak is good enough to survive in Paris and other major cities, but I'd really like to learn how to read it so I can read some of the literary classics in the original. But alas, time is the enemy here, and I already have to learn Mandarin and bring my German and Slovak back up to speed. :(
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,761
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Praha, CZ
I question anyone's knowledge of basketball or if they ever actually got to watch either player if they think ML > MJ. This sounds like the same sort of homerism you would find from basketball fans were asked the same question, most probably never heard of Mario. Jordan is still widely considered number one of all time and at his lowest, number 2. Mario doesn't even get those sort of numbers from strictly hockey fans.

Nah, basketball sucks, get aht.
 

Allie Kitsune

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Willingness to not only learn another language but use another language that you acquired after childhood is a mark of true character, I think. I also think people should be giving Malkin mad respect because he didn't speak a word of English until he came here and he not only does his daily life in English now, he jokes in it, which is the hardest thing to do in any foreign language.

I wish I had more time in the world to learn French. What little pigeon French I speak is good enough to survive in Paris and other major cities, but I'd really like to learn how to read it so I can read some of the literary classics in the original. But alas, time is the enemy here, and I already have to learn Mandarin and bring my German and Slovak back up to speed. :(

This would be literally impossible for me to ever do. Even if I had the rest of my life to do nothing but, I just do not have the co-ordination and mechanical (this probably isn't the proper term, but I'm not sure what is, at the moment) skill to ever be able to write Hanzi legibly.
 

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