Mario Lemieux and 200 point season

[alko]

I remember Alexei Yashin's agent claiming that the Senators promised to renegotiate his contract if he hit X number of points, which he fell two short of.

There was also some articles about Yashins first season. He looked to Gretzky numbers in first season and said something like: Its doable.

 

[puckpilot]

Lemieux spent too much time in the grassy knoll, so nobody could positively identify him as the second asssistman.

If only they could unearth more grainy footage from a different angle.

 

[JackSlater]

Couldn't even get 200 points? Woof, what a dog. Lemieux was a better junior player, but even then he never actually reached 300 points in a season.

 

[bobbyking]

199 is the same thing

 

[Big Phil]

Clear goal not counted against Jets 88/89 season. Lemieux did in fact accumulate 200 points. If you watch the whole game, you will see how much he go clutched and grabbed. Embarrassing really. Being on Oiler gave Gretzky a 50 head start. It only became about equal in 93-94 when Pittsburgh was stacked. Gretzky's number went down immediately after being traded to Kings. And Kings were second best offense. If you reset everything and give both a playoff team only (not HOF team) Gretzky is good for 150-160 points in prime. Lemieux is good for 180-200 points. As mentioned earlier, Lemieux on pace for 225. 92-93 on pace for 204. 52 points in first 20 games with clutch and grab. Watched old footage for past 2 weeks. Lemieux is easily the most dominant player in NHL history. Gretzky close second.

Just for kicks, you know that Gretzky as a 19 year old had a then-record of 164 points on an Oilers team whose next best player was Kurri was 75 points right?

I am a Mario and Gretzky fan, love them both. But as I have always asked Gretzky critics what more did the guy need to do? He spent almost a decade just literally decapitating the rest of the competition. Did he need to do it 12 or 15 years to be sufficient? I mean, how long do people expect a player is supposed to dominate his league for? Babe Ruth is the only one in sports history who did it as much, and even then.............

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You can't count refused/uncounted goals lol

It's one thing to give an assist after the fact, maybe. has not outcome on game. A goal refused is not a goal, and that's it.

Quite frankly i don't get what the whole fuss is about. 199 or 200 what's the difference? Lemieux's mystique remains that we won't know what he could have done at his very best on a good team and healthy - in 1993 he might have but it got cut short (and high scoring season). I could care less about 199 vs 200 - i would have loved to see him go for 220+ in an optimal scenario.

There’s no might have in 93. 40 points in 24 games?... that’s 100%

 

[wetcoast]

199 is the same thing

Well no actually it isn't.

A banana isn't an apple.

 

[The Panther]

The "140 Club". Membership is very exclusive (and is only open to post-expansion players, of course). Harold Snepts serves coffee and Jon Scott cleans the bathrooms.

1	Wayne Gretzky*	215	EDM	NHL	C	1985-86
2	Wayne Gretzky*	212	EDM	NHL	C	1981-82
3	Wayne Gretzky*	208	EDM	NHL	C	1984-85
4	Wayne Gretzky*	205	EDM	NHL	C	1983-84
5	Mario Lemieux*	199	PIT	NHL	C	1988-89
6	Wayne Gretzky*	196	EDM	NHL	C	1982-83
7	Wayne Gretzky*	183	EDM	NHL	C	1986-87
8	Wayne Gretzky*	168	LAK	NHL	C	1988-89
9	Mario Lemieux*	168	PIT	NHL	C	1987-88
10	Wayne Gretzky*	164	EDM	NHL	C	1980-81
11	Wayne Gretzky*	163	LAK	NHL	C	1990-91
12	Mario Lemieux*	161	PIT	NHL	C	1995-96
13	Mario Lemieux*	160	PIT	NHL	C	1992-93
14	Steve Yzerman*	155	DET	NHL	C	1988-89
15	Phil Esposito*	152	BOS	NHL	C	1970-71
16	Bernie Nicholls	150	LAK	NHL	C	1988-89
17	Wayne Gretzky*	149	EDM	NHL	C	1987-88
18	Jaromir Jagr	149	PIT	NHL	RW	1995-96
19	Pat LaFontaine*	148	BUF	NHL	C	1992-93
20	Mike Bossy*	147	NYI	NHL	RW	1981-82
21	Phil Esposito*	145	BOS	NHL	C	1973-74
22	Wayne Gretzky*	142	LAK	NHL	C	1989-90
23	Adam Oates*	142	BOS	NHL	C	1992-93
24	Mario Lemieux*	141	PIT	NHL	C	1985-86

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

To summarize, there are only 9 men in this ultra-exclusive (and ultra '70s-'90s) club:
11 x Wayne Gretzky
5 x Mario Lemieux
2 x Phil Esposito
1 x Steve Yzerman
1 x Bernie Nicholls
1 x Jaromir Jagr
1 x Pat Lafontaine
1 x Mike Bossy
1 x Adam Oates

The "1.75 PPG Club". Membership is very exclusive and you have to have played 50 games per season. Neil Sheehy is the doorman and Brent Gretzky is the valet.

1	Wayne Gretzky*	2.77	EDM	NHL	C	1983-84
2	Wayne Gretzky*	2.69	EDM	NHL	C	1985-86
3	Mario Lemieux*	2.67	PIT	NHL	C	1992-93
4	Wayne Gretzky*	2.65	EDM	NHL	C	1981-82
5	Mario Lemieux*	2.62	PIT	NHL	C	1988-89
6	Wayne Gretzky*	2.60	EDM	NHL	C	1984-85
7	Wayne Gretzky*	2.45	EDM	NHL	C	1982-83
8	Wayne Gretzky*	2.33	EDM	NHL	C	1987-88
9	Wayne Gretzky*	2.32	EDM	NHL	C	1986-87
10	Mario Lemieux*	2.30	PIT	NHL	C	1995-96
11	Mario Lemieux*	2.18	PIT	NHL	C	1987-88
12	Wayne Gretzky*	2.15	LAK	NHL	C	1988-89
13	Wayne Gretzky*	2.09	LAK	NHL	C	1990-91
14	Mario Lemieux*	2.08	PIT	NHL	C	1989-90
15	Wayne Gretzky*	2.05	EDM	NHL	C	1980-81
16	Mario Lemieux*	2.05	PIT	NHL	C	1991-92
17	Phil Esposito*	1.95	BOS	NHL	C	1970-71
18	Wayne Gretzky*	1.95	LAK	NHL	C	1989-90
19	Steve Yzerman*	1.94	DET	NHL	C	1988-89
20	Bernie Nicholls	1.90	LAK	NHL	C	1988-89
21	Adam Oates*	1.89	STL	NHL	C	1990-91
22	Phil Esposito*	1.86	BOS	NHL	C	1973-74
23	Jari Kurri*	1.85	EDM	NHL	RW	1984-85
24	Mike Bossy*	1.84	NYI	NHL	RW	1981-82
25	Jaromir Jagr	1.82	PIT	NHL	RW	1995-96
26	Mario Lemieux*	1.78	PIT	NHL	C	1985-86
27	Bobby Orr*	1.78	BOS	NHL	D	1970-71
28	Jari Kurri*	1.77	EDM	NHL	RW	1983-84
29	Mike Bossy*	1.76	NYI	NHL	RW	1983-84
30	Pat LaFontaine*	1.76	BUF	NHL	C	1992-93
31	Bryan Trottier*	1.76	NYI	NHL	C	1978-79
32	Paul Coffey*	1.75	EDM	NHL	D	1985-86
33	Phil Esposito*	1.75	BOS	NHL	C	1971-72

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

We now have a healthy 13 men in this still-exclusive club:
11 x Wayne Gretzky (he just missed a 12th at 1.73... sorry, Wayne)
7 x Mario Lemieux
3 x Phil Esposito
2 x Jari Kurri
2 x Mike Bossy
1 x Steve Yzerman
1 x Bernie Nicholls
1 x Adam Oates
1 x Jaromir Jagr
1 x Bobby Orr
1 x Pat Lafontaine
1 x Bryan Trottier
1 x Paul Coffey

Rumor has it that members of both exclusive clubs like to take out that Hall-of-Fame passes to compare whenever Bernie Nicholls is present...

(Incidentally, the only player to ever reach 1.70 PPG in 50+ games prior to the 1970s is Phil Esposito in 1968-69.)

(The only player EVER to reach 1.60 PPG in 50+ games, pre-expansion, is Elmer Lach in 1944-45, which is the year Maurice Richard scored 50 in 50.)

 

[Johnny Engine]

Just for kicks, you know that Gretzky as a 19 year old had a then-record of 164 points on an Oilers team whose next best player was Kurri was 75 points right?

I am a Mario and Gretzky fan, love them both. But as I have always asked Gretzky critics what more did the guy need to do? He spent almost a decade just literally decapitating the rest of the competition. Did he need to do it 12 or 15 years to be sufficient? I mean, how long do people expect a player is supposed to dominate his league for? Babe Ruth is the only one in sports history who did it as much, and even then.............

Nothing to add, I just need to make sure nobody missed this striking imagery.

 

[bobholly39]

There’s no might have in 93. 40 points in 24 games?... that’s 100%

what i'm saying is that it's not about 199 vs 200. It's about 220+. Could he have? In 1993 he might have. That's always been the mystique around him - that his peak was so ravaged by injuries that he didn't get a fair chance (complete seasons while at his best) to chase records. The only season where he truly had a shot was 1989, and he fell short (85 goals, 199 points).

Gretzky got a few goes at hitting 200, and then improving on it.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

what i'm saying is that it's not about 199 vs 200. It's about 220+. Could he have? In 1993 he might have. That's always been the mystique around him - that his peak was so ravaged by injuries that he didn't get a fair chance (complete seasons while at his best) to chase records. The only season where he truly had a shot was 1989, and he fell short (85 goals, 199 points).

Gretzky got a few goes at hitting 200, and then improving on it.

He would have scored anywhere from 210-225. For the record 51 points in 24 games. So 2.00. Considering he was trucking at 2.60 before his cancer with 104 in 40. I’d say it is almost a guarantee he would have broke the record. 84 games helps obv