Marek Schwarz by the numbers

[dawgbone]

The only way that statement is true is if you don't believe that factors such as physical ability and talent factor into a goaltenders save percentage.

Is that you what you believe?

Just assuming that those extra shots aren't going to be stopped might not be practical, but that is in fact what happens.

That was your response to me saying:

Like I said, only if you stop them...

Facing more shots doesn't help your sv% unless you are actually stopping those shots.

If you give up 2 goals on 20 shots, or 3 on 30, it's still the same %... just assuming those extra shots are there to be stopped isn't very practical. Just because you face an extra 10 or 11 shots per game, it doesn't mean you will automatically stop them.

That being said, Dub only faces an average of 2 more shots per game (or something like that).

I'm not the one arguing that more shots = higher save %... you did. So try paying attention to what you are arguing, it helps.

I've said in the end, regardless of the amount of shots, it evens out in the end. If you are a good goalie, you are a good goalie with 20 shots, 25 shots or 30 shots.

 

[degroat*]

My point is your making a HUGE deal comparing and contrasting 2 players very much in their developmental stages and aside from that it is hard to take seriously an arguement put forth with such resounding conviction when in fact the person trying to sell this arguement has never actually seen the player play!!

Selectively picking from scouting reports can lend support to most any arguement one wants to make here in regards to prospects.

That is my point.

Who said anything about selectively picking from scouting reports.? How about you find me a scouting report that says that Montoya is considerably better than Schwarz.

Good luck.

 

[degroat*]

Just assuming that those extra shots aren't going to be stopped might not be practical, but that is in fact what happens."

That was your response to me saying:

Like I said, only if you stop them...

Facing more shots doesn't help your sv% unless you are actually stopping those shots.

If you give up 2 goals on 20 shots, or 3 on 30, it's still the same %... just assuming those extra shots are there to be stopped isn't very practical. Just because you face an extra 10 or 11 shots per game, it doesn't mean you will automatically stop them.

That being said, Dub only faces an average of 2 more shots per game (or something like that).

I'm not the one arguing that more shots = higher save %... you did. So try paying attention to what you are arguing, it helps.

:lol

It's obvious to everyone else here that I never said that save percentage is completely determined by shots faced and I find hard to believe that you could possibly be dumb enough to think that's what I said. It's pretty clear here that you're playing word games because you have no argument.

The stats I posted, which you conveniently ignored, prove that among NHL goaltenders their save percentage is better in games where they face more shots.

If you're so convinced that those stats are inaccurate then why don't you actually prove it? The only reasons why you wouldn't is because you're afraid to get the same numbers when you do them yourself and then you'd have to face the truth. Oh, and if you're interested in reproducing the study feel free to IM "OS" at stlouisbluesnews.com to get the specs.

I've said in the end, regardless of the amount of shots, it evens out in the end. If you are a good goalie, you are a good goalie with 20 shots, 25 shots or 30 shots.

Who said anything about being a 'good goalie'? This discussion is about save percentage and shots against.

 

[JR#9*]

Who said anything about selectively picking from scouting reports.? How about you find me a scouting report that says that Montoya is considerably better than Schwarz.

Good luck.

Your nitpicking here.

I think even you agree that Montoya is the more well thought of goalie and was the higher rated of the 2, correct?

That being said it becomes ridiculous to argue the degree between "better" and "considerably better" especially given the fact that you've never seen them play.

Montoya at this point is regarded as the better of the 2 prospects.Simple as that.

 

[degroat*]

Your nitpicking here.

I think even you agree that Montoya is the more well thought of goalie and was the higher rated of the 2, correct?

That being said it becomes ridiculous to argue the degree between "better" and "considerably better" especially given the fact that you've never seen them play.

Montoya at this point is regarded as the better of the 2 prospects.Simple as that.

If it was simple as that then why did so many publications rate Schwarz higher just a few months ago? Do you think that all changed in that short of time?

My point in this thread has been and will continue to be that it's ridiculous that Montoya is 26 spots higher given what more reputable sources said at the time of the draft. If you think that's nitpicking, then so be it. I'm still going to express my opinion.

 

[JR#9*]

If it was simple as that then why did so many publications rate Schwarz higher just a few months ago? Do you think that all changed in that short of time?

My point in this thread has been and will continue to be that it's ridiculous that Montoya is 26 spots higher given what more reputable sources said at the time of the draft. If you think that's nitpicking, then so be it. I'm still going to express my opinion.

Exactly how many publications had Marek rated as the better prospect before the draft????

You make it sound like it was a universal belief when in actuality that wasn't the thought of these NHL teams at all as evidenced by the way the picks went down.

And it just cuts the legs out of your arguement you state w/such conviction when the fact comes out that you've actually never even seen these guys play!

Going off of scouting reports from cources you chose to believe because it lends support to a player in the Blues system is a flawed way to access such things IMO.

 

[degroat*]

Exactly how many publications had Marek rated as the better prospect before the draft????

You make it sound like it was a universal belief when in actuality that wasn't the thought of these NHL teams at all as evidenced by the way the picks went down.

And it just cuts the legs out of your arguement you state w/such conviction when the fact comes out that you've actually never even seen these guys play!

Going off of scouting reports from cources you chose to believe because it lends support to a player in the Blues system is a flawed way to access such things IMO.

I never once said it was a universal belief. I said that the fact that many publications had Schwarz above Montoya is evidence that he shouldn't be so far ahead on HF's rankings.

And ONCE AGAIN.... the only thing the NHL draft tells us is that each of the 16 teams liked the one player they drafted better than Schwarz.

And ONCE AGAIN.... if the draft is the judge of how great a player is then I guess we're all in agreement that Blake Wheeler is the 4th best prospect from the draft, right?

 

[dawgbone]

:lol

It's obvious to everyone else here that I never said that save percentage is completely determined by shots faced and I find hard to believe that you could possibly be dumb enough to think that's what I said. It's pretty clear here that you're playing word games because you have no argument.

You said it's a given that if you face more shots, your save % will go up. That is what I got from this:

Just assuming that those extra shots aren't going to be stopped might not be practical, but that is in fact what happens.

Now, this was based my comment to a poster who said If you face more shots, you'll have a higher sv%.

I posted the goaltenders who faced the most amount of shots/game (because that was what the argument presented to me)... and it is clear that just because you face a lot of shots, it doesn't mean your sv% be higher.

It isn't my fault that you are too wrapped up in your defending of Schwarz to read, but if you'd kindly remove your cranial cavity from your anal one, and read the lead up, you'd notice that it is exactly what I said.

I am not talking about a game by game basis. I am talking over the course of a season. But naturally, you failed to read that.

The comment was on the basis that because Dubnyk faced more shots per game, he had a higher sv%, because the more shots you face, the better your sv%.

That is what started this... you chose to argue completely different numbers, and bring up completely different topics... but they really didn't fit in. I don't care if Luongo's save% is better if he faces 40 shots vs when he faces 22... that really wasn't the point.

It was whether there was a relation between goaltenders, on different teams, had a better sv% based on the person who faced more shots per game.

You said it... more shots is good for your sv%... if that's the case, how come goalies who faced 30+ shots had a worse sv% than goalies who faced 25-28 shots?

The stats I posted, which you conveniently ignored, prove that among NHL goaltenders their save percentage is better in games where they face more shots.

That's beautiful... unfortunately it has nothing to do with what started the conversation, which was that Dubnyk faced more shots per game, so therefore he should have a higher sv%, because more shots are good for your save%.

If you're so convinced that those stats are inaccurate then why don't you actually prove it? The only reasons why you wouldn't is because you're afraid to get the same numbers when you do them yourself and then you'd have to face the truth. Oh, and if you're interested in reproducing the study feel free to IM "OS" at stlouisbluesnews.com to get the specs.

Those stats are meaningless for the context in which I brought up my points. Which was simply because you face more shots, it doesn't mean you will have a better save % than another goalie.

Who said anything about being a 'good goalie'? This discussion is about save percentage and shots against.

Sorry... heaven forbid I though being a good goalie would allow you to make more saves, and thereby increasing your save%... now who is playing on words?

EDIT:

I see now where I made my mistake... I missed a post, where they didn't refer to mine, they referred to another persons.

I see where the change went from Dubnyk vs Schwarz (in terms of sv% and shots/game), to goalies in general raising their own person sv% when they face more shots.

I didn't bother deleting everything, because quite frankly that's no fun!!!

 

[JR#9*]

But which were those publications, "more reputable one's" as you kept stating that had Marek rated better than Montoya???

This is the very definition of homerism.

Just because he's a Blue you feel the need to beat his drum as being better that this or that guy when in actuality you have no idea what your talking about because YOU'VE never even seen him make one save for Christ's sake!

If Montoya were a Blue and Marke were on another squad would you be making the same arguements for him being ranked way too far below Montoya???

Something tells me no.

 

[dawgbone]

Schwarz was the top-ranked goaltending prospect going into the WJC.

However, after a terrible performance there, and an excellent performance by Montoya, they swapped positions.

Montoya continued his good play, and kept his #1 ranking, where as Schwarz didn't do much to improve his stock.

Dubnyk's stock in the WHL was rising, and he was one of Canada's best players at the U-18 championships, and it became a lot closer between Schwarz and Dubnyk nearing the draft.

There was some pretty strong hints that the Blues had wanted Dubnyk... the Oilers picked him because he was also the guy they wanted, and they didn't think he would be around at 25.

 

[c-carp]

Facing more shots is GOOD for a goaltenders save percentage.

That point clearly escaped that poster.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Schwarz was the top-ranked goaltending prospect going into the WJC.

However, after a terrible performance there, and an excellent performance by Montoya, they swapped positions.

Montoya continued his good play, and kept his #1 ranking, where as Schwarz didn't do much to improve his stock.

Dubnyk's stock in the WHL was rising, and he was one of Canada's best players at the U-18 championships, and it became a lot closer between Schwarz and Dubnyk nearing the draft.

There was some pretty strong hints that the Blues had wanted Dubnyk... the Oilers picked him because he was also the guy they wanted, and they didn't think he would be around at 25.

I personally don't think Schwarz played that bad at the WJC's...The hole Czech squad save for a few, played poory in front of him. Yeah he got wamped by Canada but he was overwelmed. He also came back with a huge U-18 performance and had great numbers in the Elite league, so IMO he actually had a good resume and his stock wasn't low heading into the draft, it's just that the Rangers loved Montoya, with good reason, and the Oilers liked Dubnyk alot.

I'de give Schwarz alot of time before the bust talk or he is not as good as Dubnyk or Montoya, because it's so early, Schwarz has immense raw talent and it well be interesting to see how he comes along.

1. Montoya
2. Schwarz
3. Dubnyk
4. Schneider

But IMO all four have a very good shot at being NHL goaltenders and good ones at that.

 

[Mizral]

Schwarz hasn't been great, but he hasn't been terrible. This last 5 -10 games has been disasterous for him and the Giants, and he has been fatigued for a long while now. Schwarz looks tired every night.

If the Giants turn things around by Christmas & get themselves a competant backup, I think you'll see Schwarz' numbers go way up in a hurry. Remember, it's still fairly early in the WHL season.

 

[degroat*]

I posted the goaltenders who faced the most amount of shots/game (because that was what the argument presented to me)... and it is clear that just because you face a lot of shots, it doesn't mean your sv% be higher.

The numbers you posted are irrlevent because the goaltenders aren't a constant. Nobody ever said because Goalie A faces more shots then he'll have a higher save percentage than goalie B.

The point that I and several other people have made here in the past is that when Goalie A's save percentage is almost always higher in games where he faced 35+ shots than in games where he faces less than 20 shots.

What that means is that a goaltender that faces 35+ shots on a ton of nights is going to have his save percentage padded while a goaltender who faces less than 20 shots on a regular basis is going to have his save percentage negatively effected.

You said it... more shots is good for your sv%... if that's the case, how come goalies who faced 30+ shots had a worse sv% than goalies who faced 25-28 shots?

Talent differential.

For what it's worth, here is the the numbers for all eligible* games play by goaltenders 2003-04:
8 - .727 (1 games)
9 - .844 (3 games)
10 - .857 (3 games)
11 - .830 (8 games)
12 - .814 (12 games)
13 - .847 (20 games)
14 - .857 (32 games)
15 - .882 (39 games)
16 - .890 (45 games)
17 - .879 (52 games)
18 - .889 (100 games)
19 - .882 (100 games)
20 - .898 (113 games)
21 - .903 (140 games)
22 - .899 (132 games)
23 - .897 (137 games)
24 - .911 (132 games)
25 - .918 (128 games)
26 - .916 (120 games)
27 - .920 (127 games)
28 - .921 (109 games)
29 - .926 (111 games)
30 - .931 (93 games)
31 - .930 (113 games)
32 - .933 (64 games)
33 - .930 (58 games)
34 - .941 (63 games)
35 - .936 (36 games)
36 - .949 (34 games)
37 - .941 (43 games)
38 - .947 (35 games)
39 - .931 (16 games)
40 - .947 (13 games)
41 - .941 (12 games)
42 - .948 (7 games)
43 - .968 (7 games)
44 - .957 (8 games)
45 - .947 (4 games)
46 - .948 (6 games)
47 - .940 (2 games)
48 - .960 (1 games)
50 - .952 (2 games)
51 - .895 (1 games)

* Only games where a goaltender played at least 55 minutes are included. Including a game where, for example, a goaltender played for 10 minutes before getting pulled after giving up 3 goals on 6 shots would not accurately display how shots on goal in a game effects save percentage. Including those games would only further decrease the save percentages of the low shot games.

 

[oil slick]

What that means is that a goaltender that faces 35+ shots on a ton of nights is going to have his save percentage padded while a goaltender who faces less than 20 shots on a regular basis is going to have his save percentage negatively effected.

I've never really seen any numbers to support this.

From a small analysis of dawgs numbers, there seems to be no inverse correlation between shots and save %. I think that dawgs arguments are strong, and the only weakness with the statistics he brought up, would somehow that the teams that allow more shots, have weaker goalies (thus the reason we don't see you're alleged padding in the numbers dawg showed). I personally don't buy this argument.

I think the only way to really convince me there is some kind of padding would be to look at individual goalies results in low shot games vs high shot games.

 

[JR#9*]

But which were those publications, "more reputable one's" as you kept stating that had Marek rated better than Montoya???

This is the very definition of homerism.

Just because he's a Blue you feel the need to beat his drum as being better that this or that guy when in actuality you have no idea what your talking about because YOU'VE never even seen him make one save for Christ's sake!

If Montoya were a Blue and Marke were on another squad would you be making the same arguements for him being ranked way too far below Montoya???

Something tells me no.

Have you dug up those "more reputable publications" yet?

 

[degroat*]

I've never really seen any numbers to support this.

From a small analysis of dawgs numbers, there seems to be no inverse correlation between shots and save %. I think that dawgs arguments are strong, and the only weakness with the statistics he brought up, would somehow that the teams that allow more shots, have weaker goalies (thus the reason we don't see you're alleged padding in the numbers dawg showed). I personally don't buy this argument.

I think the only way to really convince me there is some kind of padding would be to look at individual goalies results in low shot games vs high shot games.

I just posted numbers that support my claim.... twice.

 

[degroat*]

No and I don't plan to. If you're so concerned with effecting my credibility then feel free to research them yourself.

 

[slimer]

Let me preface this by stating that I am a Blues fan.

I don't think Schwartz has performed as well as expected so far, but I have read a few reports from people that have watched him play. They have stated that he has been fairly inconsistant. One period he stands on his head and keep his poor team in a game, and the next he looks very ordinary. However, I think it is way to early to say that Schwartz won't live up to all of the hype and more.

 

[JR#9*]

No and I don't plan to. If you're so concerned with effecting my credibility then feel free to research them yourself.

It should be if you wanted to keep any credibility that you would produce examples of all these "more reputable publications" that you've created this whole entire arguement about as you've already stated that YOU have never seen the players your commenting on with such conviction so now that you can't produce even ONE of these "sources" which you speak of where does that leave your credibility???

Nothing wrong with being a homer as long as you don't try and pretend that your not one.

 

[JR#9*]

Let me preface this by stating that I am a Blues fan.

I don't think Schwartz has performed as well as expected so far, but I have read a few reports from people that have watched him play. They have stated that he has been fairly inconsistant. One period he stands on his head and keep his poor team in a game, and the next he looks very ordinary. However, I think it is way to early to say that Schwartz won't live up to all of the hype and more.

It makes little sense to be going nuts over exactly who is the better prospect and by how much, especially 18 yr old goalies who obviously will take time to fully develop.

Marek may turn out to be the best goalie taken in this draft.You just can't tell at this point, especially those who comment with such certainty while never actually haven seen him play as Stitch has been doing.

That's the only point I'm trying to make.It's hard enough predicting an 18 yr old goalies future potential when you've actually seen him live numerous times, but to make this whole drawn out arguement that has him stating things with such certainty and then to see him admit that he's never even seen the guy make one save is mind boggling.

 

[degroat*]

I think we've already concluded that it boggles your mind that I don't think Montoya should be that far ahead of Schwarz. How about we move on now?

 

[degroat*]

I think the only way to really convince me there is some kind of padding would be to look at individual goalies results in low shot games vs high shot games.

Ed Belfour
Under 23 Shots: .900 (11 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (7 Games)

Sean Burke
Under 23 Shots: .846 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .924 (7 Games)

Jeff Hackett
Under 23 Shots: .880 (10 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .938 (4 Games)

Dominik Hasek
Under 23 Shots: .898 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .947 (1 Games)

Arturs Irbe
Under 23 Shots: .903 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Felix Potvin
Under 23 Shots: .868 (8 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .962 (3 Games)

Martin Brodeur
Under 23 Shots: .895 (12 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (6 Games)

Olaf Kolzig
Under 23 Shots: .866 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .932 (12 Games)

Jocelyn Thibault
Under 23 Shots: .867 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .941 (6 Games)

Trevor Kidd
Under 23 Shots: .793 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .943 (1 Games)

Chris Osgood
Under 23 Shots: .897 (12 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .937 (5 Games)

Byron Dafoe
Under 23 Shots: .861 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .918 (4 Games)

Garth Snow
Under 23 Shots: .881 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .929 (4 Games)

Jamie Storr
Under 23 Shots: .855 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Nikolai Khabibulin
Under 23 Shots: .902 (10 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .928 (5 Games)

Tommy Salo
Under 23 Shots: .880 (10 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .929 (2 Games)

Jamie McLennan
Under 23 Shots: .887 (8 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .952 (3 Games)

Curtis Joseph
Under 23 Shots: .903 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .941 (2 Games)

Corey Schwab
Under 23 Shots: .975 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Fred Brathwaite
Under 23 Shots: .792 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .910 (6 Games)

Steve Shields
Under 23 Shots: .797 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .909 (3 Games)

Martin Biron
Under 23 Shots: .883 (7 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .947 (8 Games)

Manny Fernandez
Under 23 Shots: .882 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .939 (6 Games)

Jose Theodore
Under 23 Shots: .914 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (9 Games)

Ron Tugnutt
Under 23 Shots: .864 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Roman Turek
Under 23 Shots: .901 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .936 (3 Games)

Marc Denis
Under 23 Shots: .885 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (12 Games)

Mike Dunham
Under 23 Shots: .858 (8 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .930 (9 Games)

Patrick Lalime
Under 23 Shots: .883 (13 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .935 (5 Games)

Dwayne Roloson
Under 23 Shots: .915 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .944 (7 Games)

Jean-Sebastien Giguere
Under 23 Shots: .883 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .937 (11 Games)

Tomas Vokoun
Under 23 Shots: .892 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .939 (8 Games)

Brian Boucher
Under 23 Shots: .882 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .933 (9 Games)

Dan Cloutier
Under 23 Shots: .919 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .945 (5 Games)

Roberto Luongo
Under 23 Shots: .881 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .945 (17 Games)

Kevin Weekes
Under 23 Shots: .901 (10 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .950 (8 Games)

Zac Bierk
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .911 (1 Games)

Manny Legace
Under 23 Shots: .877 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .974 (5 Games)

Jean-Sebastien Aubin
Under 23 Shots: .842 (1 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .946 (5 Games)

Chris Mason
Under 23 Shots: .864 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .962 (3 Games)

Brent Johnson
Under 23 Shots: .863 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .941 (3 Games)

Robert Esche
Under 23 Shots: .907 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .973 (2 Games)

Steve Passmore
Under 23 Shots: .882 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .919 (2 Games)

Martin Brochu
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Marc Lamothe
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Evgeni Nabokov
Under 23 Shots: .897 (7 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .933 (6 Games)

John Grahame
Under 23 Shots: .903 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .958 (2 Games)

Milan Hnilicka
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .886 (1 Games)

Stephen Valiquette
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Maxime Ouellet
Under 23 Shots: .909 (1 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .910 (5 Games)

Rick DiPietro
Under 23 Shots: .889 (11 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .952 (5 Games)

David Aebischer
Under 23 Shots: .893 (7 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .955 (8 Games)

Andrew Raycroft
Under 23 Shots: .911 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .948 (6 Games)

Marty Turco
Under 23 Shots: .907 (12 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .931 (3 Games)

Roman Cechmanek
Under 23 Shots: .902 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (7 Games)

Mika Noronen
Under 23 Shots: .909 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .939 (5 Games)

Mathieu Garon
Under 23 Shots: .885 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .941 (4 Games)

Mathieu Chouinard
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Sebastien Charpentier
Under 23 Shots: .848 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .939 (1 Games)

Philippe Sauve
Under 23 Shots: .868 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .925 (4 Games)

Neil Little
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Jason Labarbera
Under 23 Shots: .905 (1 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Miikka Kiprusoff
Under 23 Shots: .924 (9 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .961 (3 Games)

Jean-Marc Pelletier
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Johan Hedberg
Under 23 Shots: .866 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .963 (2 Games)

Sebastian Caron
Under 23 Shots: .887 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .919 (8 Games)

Mikael Tellqvist
Under 23 Shots: .848 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .971 (1 Games)

Alex Auld
Under 23 Shots: .769 (1 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .968 (2 Games)

Ryan Miller
Under 23 Shots: .723 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Scott Clemmensen
Under 23 Shots: .932 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Ilja Bryzgalov
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Ty Conklin
Under 23 Shots: .901 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .929 (6 Games)

Vesa Toskala
Under 23 Shots: .913 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .944 (7 Games)

Jussi Markkanen
Under 23 Shots: .910 (5 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .954 (7 Games)

Pasi Nurminen
Under 23 Shots: .889 (8 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .925 (7 Games)

Martin Prusek
Under 23 Shots: .905 (7 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .965 (5 Games)

Reinhard Divis
Under 23 Shots: .915 (4 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .889 (2 Games)

Martin Gerber
Under 23 Shots: .910 (6 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .961 (6 Games)

Michael Leighton
Under 23 Shots: .888 (7 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .928 (6 Games)

Antero Niittymaki
Under 23 Shots: .951 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .972 (1 Games)

Craig Andersson
Under 23 Shots: .866 (3 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .951 (4 Games)

Ray Emery
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Cristobal Huet
Under 23 Shots: .894 (8 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .932 (4 Games)

Marc-Andre Fleury
Under 23 Shots: .911 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .910 (10 Games)

Rastislav Stana
Under 23 Shots: .813 (2 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .974 (1 Games)

Dan Ellis
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Matt Underhill
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .000 (0 Games)

Matt Yeats
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .909 (1 Games)

Wade Dubielewicz
Under 23 Shots: .000 (0 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .917 (1 Games)

 

[JR#9*]

I think we've already concluded that it boggles your mind that I don't think Montoya should be that far ahead of Schwarz. How about we move on now?

See, you just don't get it.

Here you are ranting about what a disgrace it is that HF has Montoya rated at X and Marek rated at Y and your going on and on trying to convince others that there was this great diservice done to a great Blues prospect while using your "more reputable souces" for which you claim there are multiple ones as the ENTIRE basis for your arguement as you've admitted as to never haven seen these kids play and you create this whole long and drawn out thread about it but then when asked to actually back up what you're stating with such conviction by actually producing one of these sources you keep crowing about you run from the topic and say "let's just move on already".

Not trying to pick on you but your very opinionated while carrying a heavy bias without actually having the substance to back up your stances.

The fact that you can't even produce ONE, not even asking for the multiple one's you've claimed to have read, just shoots your credibility down the tubes.

I'm a NYR fan and hope Montoya turns out the better of the 2 BUT have you seen me saying that Al has Marek beaten hands down or that he's going to be so much of a better goalie because I haven't seen enough of either goalie(have never seen Marek at all) to make such ridiculous comments and while it's fine to uses publications or scouting services as references in no way would I state with the conviction you do stances you chose to make in such situations while never haven seen either guy play even once.

 

[oil slick]

Ed Belfour
Under 23 Shots: .900 (11 Games)
Over 29 Shots: .934 (7 Games)

...

That list convinced me.