Player Discussion Marcus Foligno

[Wabit]

A guy with a 4 year contract probably deserves Player Discussion his own thread. So talk about his here, I guess.

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[2Pair]

He's a smarter player than I was expecting, but is also slower than I remembered him being. Thought he would be a very good 4th liner for the Wild. After seeing him play a few games, still feel the same way. Terrible contract, but he does fill a role that the team needs.

 

[BagHead]

Mostly feel the same as 2Pair, except that I think he slots up to the 3rd line just fine, as well. Definitely not a top 6 player, but he fills his role well. A bit overpriced if he proves to be a 4th liner in the end, but decently paid if he's a 3rd liner for the duration of his deal. Then again, it's early; I really liked Ryan White's game at first, too.

 

[Al Lagoon]

There is a thread. I know, I made ithttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wild-signs-marcus-foligno-4-years-2-875m-aav.2379607/

 

[hirawl]

I really like the way he plays. Makes the Wild show much harder to play against.

 

[nt3005]

I haven't seen anything that has made me dislike the Foligno acquisition. He plays hard and shows flashes of offense. He has also worked well with almost all the line combinations they have tried him on.

 

[DANOZ28]

hes not a bad player, i just think hes overpaid compared to stewy (i know hes younger) and the fact he was part of a bad trade.

 

[nt3005]

hes not a bad player, i just think hes overpaid compared to stewy (i know hes younger) and the fact he was part of a bad trade.

Not gonna argue with that.

I think they see Stewart as a short term filler, and honestly I don't think they expect much from him.

But Foligno is part of their longer term plans, and the kind of play Bruce loves. If Bruce sees a ton of potential in him, I'm completely on board.

 

[StormFather]

Really have enjoyed his play so far. I like gritty players like Marcus

 

[Soldier13Fox]

Certainly like him more than Ennis ....

 

[BagHead]

Well, it doesn't mean anything really, but his brother showed mediocre scoring ability early on, then exploded offensively at age 26, which is Marcus' current age. I certainly don't expect Marcus to do that, which would really just mean keeping his current pace, but I guess we'll see if he's like his brother. Neither one is like their father, who scored immediately, and often.

/crackpot theory

 

[melinko]

He has played much better than I was expecting.

He would have to fall off a cliff to not surpass the expectations I had for him, honestly thought he wouldn't even get close to Haula's scoring stats.

 

[TaLoN]

It really is amazing how bad he is with the puck. He's a very smart player, but his pick skills are horrible.

 

[BagHead]

Don't look now but he's quietly creeping toward his career high in points (he has 16, needs 23). For a guy that we've really used as a scapegoat a lot on here, he's actually been better than expected offensively. Now that's not saying much as expectations for his offense were pretty low, but I still thought it was interesting how the perception is different than the actual numbers.

 

[Dee Oh Cee]

He's playing a lot better lately. At least it feels/seems like it.

 

[Bazeek]

Yeah, he is getting closer to ending with 25-30 points on the season...

I wonder, at what point is he not considered overpaid at $2.85m/yr? 35pts? 40pts? I don't hate his game, but that seems like a lot to pay a guy that's probably going to bounce between the 4th line and the press box. If he can produce like a 3rd-liner though, the deal looks much better.

It'd be especially nice if he could step into that "sparkplug" role we seem to be missing, though I'm not sure if he has that in him. He seems to have a little bit of a reputation for it from Buffalo fans, but that's not the best situation to be basing a guess on.

 

[2Pair]

Absolute garbage hockey player. Liability every time he touches the ice.

 

[57special]

Still not crazy about him. Decent skater, great size, physical...and...ya... 2.85M? No. Not going to kill us, but that is not smart by Fletcher (or whomever, I suspect BB was partially behind his acquisition). That he was exchanged for a good player like Scandella makes it hurt even more.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, he is getting closer to ending with 25-30 points on the season...

I wonder, at what point is he not considered overpaid at $2.85m/yr? 35pts? 40pts? I don't hate his game, but that seems like a lot to pay a guy that's probably going to bounce between the 4th line and the press box. If he can produce like a 3rd-liner though, the deal looks much better.

It'd be especially nice if he could step into that "sparkplug" role we seem to be missing, though I'm not sure if he has that in him. He seems to have a little bit of a reputation for it from Buffalo fans, but that's not the best situation to be basing a guess on.

30 points and a physical game, he earns his salary. The problem for a lot of people is always going to be the trade that brought him here.

 

[Bazeek]

30 points and a physical game, he earns his salary. The problem for a lot of people is always going to be the trade that brought him here.

Yeah, I'm good with that, as long as he isn't a liability defensively.

 

[BagHead]

Yeah, he is getting closer to ending with 25-30 points on the season...

I wonder, at what point is he not considered overpaid at $2.85m/yr? 35pts? 40pts? I don't hate his game, but that seems like a lot to pay a guy that's probably going to bounce between the 4th line and the press box. If he can produce like a 3rd-liner though, the deal looks much better.

It'd be especially nice if he could step into that "sparkplug" role we seem to be missing, though I'm not sure if he has that in him. He seems to have a little bit of a reputation for it from Buffalo fans, but that's not the best situation to be basing a guess on.

I think the very loose rule is $1 million per 10 points. If we follow that logic, 28 points would make him worth his price tag. Typically that line of logic is only used for scoring forwards, though, and even then it's a loose rule that is going out of fashion as salaries rise.

I certainly wasn't a fan of the trade (even though it had to be done) because Foligno+Ennis is a skill downgrade from Scandella+Pominville, but there seems to be a discrepancy between the eye test and his numbers. Enough so that I wonder if our eyes are lying to us at least a little, as we're already biased against him because of the trade that sent him here. "We" being the majority of Wild fans. I'm going to be trying to view him with new eyes for the next handful of games. As for his salary, I think there's a decent chance he actually ends up being worth that.

 

[nt3005]

I think a big part of the problem is that people don't look at the salary cap going up, and the huge contracts that players signing. The star player contracts drive up the price of contracts for bottom six players too.

Obviously someone in the organization sees potential in Foligno for the future. I would much rather have him on the ice than Stewart. And if his game can continue to grow, that contract will look good for the next two years.

 

[Wabit]

He's on a bit of a hot streak for points right now: 7p in the last 10 games.

I think he's finally washed the Buffalo stink off of himself, and gotten comfortable with the Wild's system. His game has progressed quite a bit from the start of the season.
-Early in the season, a couple of times a game, he'd put the puck where nobody was in the o-zone. Now those pucks are going to people, or at least in the area where they should be.
-His low to high cycle game is decent now; it was nonexistent when the season started.
-I've noticed the last few games he has a little touch/redirect pass that I hadn't seen from him before.

I do think there is a bias against him because of the trade. Things he does do well get overlooked and any deficiencies are put in the forefront. He might as well be Brodziak in his last couple of years here (similar contract and production).

I'd like to see him hit the back of the net more often, but I can say the same about every FWD not named Nino, Granlund, or Staal.

 

[space321]

Haula signed for less than 2.875 with VGK, just sayin..

 

[absolute garbage]

I think a big part of the problem is that people don't look at the salary cap going up, and the huge contracts that players signing. The star player contracts drive up the price of contracts for bottom six players too.

That's not really true. Minimum salary is the thing you should be looking at. Signing a 4th line small-minute plug to a 3M contract will always be a terrible decision no matter how much the McDavids are making, because you could always bring in a player making below 1M do same kind of things (see Winnik) and invest all the money to more important positions in the roster than bottom 6. That's how you build a good team.

Also, this "living up to the contract" is a false way of thinking. This is a 26 year old player with 5 more or less full seasons in the NHL, arguably as a 4th liner but definitely as a bottom 6 player (in a very bad team) with a career high of 23 points. You give him the contract he deserves based on his body of work while reflecting it to the contributions of a veteran UFA you can sign for ~1M in free agency. Anything else is a mistake.

How much is that? Well, you simply cannot give a player with this kind of resume much more than 2M or more than 2-3 years, let alone BOTH. There were comparables too, like Kassian who signed 3 years @ 1.95M after a 24 point season. Panik signed 2 years @ 2.8M, and that was after a 44 point season. Hyman signed 4 years @ 2.25M. Calvert signed a similar deal. Haula of course a great comparable, a superior player with much more utility signed to a similar but 3-year contract. Ditto for Pageau @ 3.1M. I'm sure Foligno's agent used Cizikas as comparable, but that's an outlier example of another bad contract you should be avoiding.

If a player like this then "outperforms" his contract and scores like 30-40 points through the contract, or let's go crazy and say he becomes an impact player for your team, great! But remember, he still should've been signed for less. I understand the risky concept of "paying for potential" (like how Florida signed Matheson) but ultimately those cases are very rare and it most definitely doesn't apply with a player like Foligno.