Marc Tardif

[The Panther]

(Found a short-thread about him from 13 years ago, but not much there.)

I am interested to know more about Marc Tardif, who played for the Montreal Jr. Canadiens alongside Rejean Houle and Gilbert Perreault. I find the French-Canadian stars centered around the 1970s -- esp. those whose greatest performances were not in the NHL -- very interesting. For example, we can always speculate about how well they'd have done if their salad years were in the big league.

Tardif is a bit different from others in this regard, because he did play in the NHL, both early in his pro-career (c.1970 to 1973) and again after the WHA folded (1979 to 1983), which comes to 517 games (and 62 in the playoffs) and is actually more than he played in the WHA. Yet he's mainly remembered as a WHA superstar, which is understandable when we see his numbers for the Nordiques then:
Marc Tardif Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Now, obviously his 148 and 154-point seasons are not numbers that he could have achieved in the NHL, but his actual NHL stats are pretty good, especially considering his peak years were in between his two NHL stints. He was on board for the Habs' 1971 Cup run, along with Jean Beliveau. When Bowman took over the next year, Tardif scored 31 goals (fifth on the club, and more than Guy Lafleur), so that's pretty good. His stats are similar the following season (1972-73), and at least statistically he appears to have outperformed Lafleur in the playoffs, with six goals in fourteen games.

This is the point at which he jumps the WHA -- I assume for money? He went straight to the ill-fated L.A. Sharks, a team that started five goaltenders and had a bunch of players I've never heard of. Tardif scored 40 goals to lead the team. Still, was the money that good that he wanted to leave the Cup-champion Habs and his (presumably) childhood team? I guess so...

In 1974, the Sharks moved to Detroit to become the Michigan Stags. Tardif's numbers seem to have been down a bit for 23 games based in Michigan, but then he was traded to Quebec in Dec.1974. It would be an understatement to say this appears to have invigorated him. His stats the next three-and-2/3 seasons as a Nordique: 274GP -- 223G + 260A = 483PTS
So, for nearly four years he averaged 140 points per season, when healthy. The final WHA season in Quebec (under Jacques Demers), 1978-79, he was a little under that pace, but still huge, with 96 points in 74 games, but he was supplanted by the younger Real Cloutier as the Nords' leading scorer.

So, Tardif was 30 years old by the time the Nords made it into the NHL, and in 1979-80 he put up 68 points in just 58 games (33 goals), again second in team scoring to Cloutier. The second NHL season in Quebec saw Demers gone and Michel Bergeron in, along with the arrival of Peter and Anton Stastny. I wonder if this didn't limit Tardif's ice-time/PP-time a bit, as he scored just 54 points in 63 games (although, among skaters, he was by now the 2nd-oldest guy on the club). He appears to have bounced back a bit in 1981-82 (and on Hockey Ref. he's now listed as a center...?), with 39 goals. Goals-wise, he's still keeping pace with, say, Michel Goulet at this point. By 1982-83, with Goulet emerging as a star and Anton Stastny at left-wing, Tardif appears to have been on the third line. Now age 33, he still put up 21 goals and 52 points, but then promptly retired.


For those who saw him play, how good was he? I wouldn't want to read too much into the WHA peak-era stats, but the guy did have the highest-scoring season in WHA history, and a few 30-40 goals seasons in the NHL coming sort-of before and after his peak. He seemingly wasn't one of these small guys, either (like Cloutier or Ftorek), as he's listed at 6-feet, 195 pounds. Clearly, in the right situation he could have been an NHL star of the 1970s.

Then, why did he leave the Habs right after winning a cup? I'm guessing (not sure) he played on a line with Lafleur...? If he's stuck around for another year or two, he'd have been there when Lafleur emerged as a superstar. I can understand French-Canadian guys in (say) Atlanta wanting to leave to play in Quebec, but Tardif left the Canadiens to play for a shaky franchise in California (did he even speak English?).

There is the suggestion from his stats that he was a bit of a one-way player (again, I'm not sure, just speculating) and I wonder if maybe the transition to "Bowman-style" hockey was hard on him.

Any info./memories of Tardif, please share here!

Click to read more...

 

[Tarantula]

Good thread idea! I remember him as a WHA player and there was only a small amount of games I could see back then with a old fashioned attenae. I always recall him getting punked over by Rick Jodzio, a ugly moment from what I remember.

 

[The Panther]

Good thread idea! I remember him as a WHA player and there was only a small amount of games I could see back then with a old fashioned attenae. I always recall him getting punked over by Rick Jodzio, a ugly moment from what I remember.

Both YouTube clips featuring his name address that ugly incident in 1976. The first has clips from a brawl that (I think) followed the incident, but doesn't show the actual 'attack' itself (it's en française):


The second clip is him, at the Calgary Corral in 1980-81 (Calgary Flames' first season) talking about it:

 

[MS]

You wonder how history would be different if he hadn’t jumped to the WHA because the LW slot next to Lafleur would logically have been his. Steve Shutt who?

In terms of legacy-poisoning by going to the WHA, Tardif is probably the ‘winner’ by being the best, youngest player to jump ship. Most of the ‘name’ guys who went to that league already had secure legacies.

 

[PurpleMouse]

Despite the great numbers, many accounts say he wasn't the same after the Jodzio incident so his NHL numbers after the merger, while already strong could have been more impressive.

That said, the greatest "could have been in the NHL during the WHA years" would be an interesting debate/other thread itself.

 

[snuffelapagus]

I think Tardif will always be primarily remembered for the Jodzio incident. The Canadian media at the time seized on the serious injury to Tardif as a call for sanity in what many saw as out of control violence in the sport during the mid-seventies. Like @PurpleMouse, I also heard that Tardif wasn't quite the same after his injury despite his dizzying numbers.

I recall reading somewhere that it was Rejean Houle who convinced Tardif to jump with him from the Habs to the WHA after the 73 season. The 72-73 Canadiens may very well be my all-time favorite team. They were infinitely more interesting than the ensuing dynasty teams to my recollection and Tardif was one of several major reasons. Ironically Houle returned to the Canadiens after three seasons on the Nords just in time to get in on the last three of four cups. It was said that Tardif was quite irked that Houle bailed on the Nords in 76 to return to Montreal.

Who would have guessed that over 20 years after unforgivably leading one of their best young players out of town, Houle would return to the scene of the crime and obliviously guide his beloved Habs into a state of total disarray? I, for one, would not scoff at anyone suggesting Reggie may have been a lifetime Nords/Avs double agent!

 

[The Panther]

I also read the bit about Tardif not being the same after the violent incident, but the numbers sure don't support that as he scored 65 goals and 154 points (WHA scoring title) the following season. Maybe it's one of those thing where the principles saying this are his friends / teammates, and maybe his personality changed more than his on-ice play did.

 

[Tarantula]

Found this excerpt:

"The Rebel League: The Short and Unruly Life of the World Hockey Association" by Ed Willes.

It’s now clear that Tardif suffered a major brain trauma and was one of the first acknowledged victims of a serious concussion. He didn’t skate for the next 4 months and only resumed training at the end of the following summer. When he did return, he suffered from dizzy spells and struggled to regain his old form. He scored 49 goals in 62 games the next year but then came back to lead the league with 65 goals and 154 points in 1977-1978 [Tardif totaled 71 goals and 77 assists for 148 points in the 1975-1976 season, tops in the league in all three categories]. He says he was never the same player after Jodzio attacked him, however, and at least one of his teammates agrees with him.
"It’s not something I like to talk about and I only remember part of it," Tardif says. "It changed me after that. I was, I would say, a more careful player. I played with some very good players, and my numbers were good, but it was tough, that’s for sure."

 

[Canadiens1958]

I also read the bit about Tardif not being the same after the violent incident, but the numbers sure don't support that as he scored 65 goals and 154 points (WHA scoring title) the following season. Maybe it's one of those thing where the principles saying this are his friends / teammates, and maybe his personality changed more than his on-ice play did.

Relying on numbers is deceiving.

Tardif went from being an intuative pro-active player to a controlled re-active player post Jodzio.

 

[tony d]

He was such a good player, for my money one of the better players in WHA history.

 

[Canadiens1958]

You wonder how history would be different if he hadn’t jumped to the WHA because the LW slot next to Lafleur would logically have been his. Steve Shutt who?

In terms of legacy-poisoning by going to the WHA, Tardif is probably the ‘winner’ by being the best, youngest player to jump ship. Most of the ‘name’ guys who went to that league already had secure legacies.

Tardif/Lafleur/Houle line with Lafleur playing center did not work well.

Shutt who played the traditional wide LW style was a much better match for Lafleur especially with Lemaire at centre.

Center playing between Tardiff and Lafleur would have to cover for both.

 

[ESH]

Relying on numbers is deceiving.

Tardif went from being an intuative pro-active player to a controlled re-active player post Jodzio.

What exactly do you mean by this? Is there any examples you could provide? Just curious.

 

[Canadiens1958]

What exactly do you mean by this? Is there any examples you could provide? Just curious.

Gordie Howe pre-retirement and post WHA return. Driving the way his line played with Detroit. WHA and NHL return reacting and profiting from game situations.

 

[Staniowski]

I remember when I was a young kid, Marc Tardif and Real Cloutier were tearing up the WHA, I had never seen them play but I saw their stats and, of course, I knew the stats of Lafleur, Dionne, etc. I thought Tardif and Cloutier must've been the greatest hockey players ever.

I obviously didn't understand what the WHA was at the time.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

If not for the Jodzio mugging, he almost certainly would have played in the 1976 Canada Cup.

 

[wetcoast]

You wonder how history would be different if he hadn’t jumped to the WHA because the LW slot next to Lafleur would logically have been his. Steve Shutt who?

In terms of legacy-poisoning by going to the WHA, Tardif is probably the ‘winner’ by being the best, youngest player to jump ship. Most of the ‘name’ guys who went to that league already had secure legacies.

This was my first thought as well.

He very well could have had a HHOF type of career had he stayed with the Habs.

And to answer the OP yes the money was that much better in the WHA.

Tardif earned $40 000 in 72-73 with the Habs and he signed a 3 year deal worth $350 000 with a no trade clause with LA (or course hindsight is 20-20 on that part of the contract)

Marc Tardif career profile at HockeyDraftCentral.com

 

[The Panther]

Reviving my old thread on Marc Tardif: I noticed something today. These were the NHL goal leaders at stages in 1981-82 (Tardif's next-to-last season):

After 34 games:
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Tardif
3rd - Ciccarelli
4th - Maruk
5th - Dionne
6th - Bossy

After 47 games:
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Stoughton
3rd - Middleton
4th - Bossy
5th - Tardif

After 80 games (75, in Tardif's case):
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Bossy
3rd - Maruk
........
25th - Tardif


What the heck happened to Tardif that he was matching peak-Bossy through 45-odd games, but then scored 6 goals in his final 38 games, including playoffs??

 

[quietbruinfan]

I should not speak on this as I never saw his Montreal or really his WHA years. ( I only got to see the odd Whaler highlight or partial game.)
I am going to anyway because Tardif's style and demeanor intrigue me- even aside from the Jodzio incident. He was known for his cool demeanor and economical stylishness.

I have trouble finding a comparable to him after him. Before him, he reminded me of a poor man's Rod Gilbert. I found Cloutier and maybe Jacque Richard similar, but that had something to do with the Nordiques run and gun style.
The only player after him who I found similar was Kurri, and Kurri was far better defensively.
Those comparisons do speak well of him, and C 1958's word about going from proactive to reactive seem to ring true too. I imagine he lost speed and quickness off the rush,and looked for shots from middle areas. That corresponds to what I actually remember. ...

 

[McGarnagle]

In that clip above of him coming back to Calgary in 1980-81, the number and nameplate on the back of his jersey are off-center and it really disturbs my eye.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Reviving my old thread on Marc Tardif: I noticed something today. These were the NHL goal leaders at stages in 1981-82 (Tardif's next-to-last season):

After 34 games:
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Tardif
3rd - Ciccarelli
4th - Maruk
5th - Dionne
6th - Bossy

After 47 games:
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Stoughton
3rd - Middleton
4th - Bossy
5th - Tardif

After 80 games (75, in Tardif's case):
1st - Gretzky
2nd - Bossy
3rd - Maruk
........
25th - Tardif


What the heck happened to Tardif that he was matching peak-Bossy through 45-odd games, but then scored 6 goals in his final 38 games, including playoffs??

As I recall, the emergence of Michel Goulet - a younger, faster two-way player - essentially pushed him down the depth chart on the left side. Peter Stastny played with his brothers at ES, Goulet and Dale Hunter played well together and would be linemates on and off for years on the second unit, and 25-year old Cloutier was still putting up big numbers, so I think it was mostly just age (32) catching up to Tardif and him losing his spot on the PP by the second half of the season. The team also had dynamic rookie Miro Frycer (before dealing him to the Leafs for Wilf Paiement) and sent Tardif's center from the previous season Robbie Ftorek to the Rangers early on in the year, meaning he was consigned to third-line duties with the likes of Pierre Aubry at center and a drunken Jacques Richard on the right side. I'm just guessing that dwindling ES ice time, getting less PP time and having line mates that were less effective offensively didn't help a struggling 32-year old.

 

[The Panther]

As I recall, the emergence of Michel Goulet - a younger, faster two-way player - essentially pushed him down the depth chart on the left side. Peter Stastny played with his brothers at ES, Goulet and Dale Hunter played well together and would be linemates on and off for years on the second unit, and 25-year old Cloutier was still putting up big numbers, so I think it was mostly just age (32) catching up to Tardif and him losing his spot on the PP by the second half of the season. The team also had dynamic rookie Miro Frycer (before dealing him to the Leafs for Wilf Paiement) and sent Tardif's center from the previous season Robbie Ftorek to the Rangers early on in the year, meaning he was consigned to third-line duties with the likes of Pierre Aubry at center and a drunken Jacques Richard on the right side. I'm just guessing that dwindling ES ice time, getting less PP time and having line mates that were less effective offensively didn't help a struggling 32-year old.

Great post, thank! Yeah, I figured it must be the emergence of Goulet and reduced PP-time, in combination. Or something.

You mention Jacques Richard. He had the most famous one-off star season, maybe, in NHL history in 1980-81. But he actually started off 1981-82 really well (not as well as -- and it didn't last as long as -- Tardif, but still well). Richard scored 16 points in the first ten games of the season, and 39 points in the first 44 games... before falling off a cliff completely. In the final 25 games (incl. playoffs), he scored 3 points and went minus twelve. This suggests a player not only with lifestyle issues but a player who was giving up on his career.

Richard: 103 points in 1981
Tardif: Top-5 in goals through 47 games in 1981-82
Both: Played their final NHL game on April 10th, 1983

 

[snuffelapagus]

Nice resolution to the Jodzio incident reported in this recently posted PRO HOCKEY ALUMNI summary of Tardif's career:

 

[quietbruinfan]

As I recall, the emergence of Michel Goulet - a younger, faster two-way player - essentially pushed him down the depth chart on the left side. Peter Stastny played with his brothers at ES, Goulet and Dale Hunter played well together and would be linemates on and off for years on the second unit, and 25-year old Cloutier was still putting up big numbers, so I think it was mostly just age (32) catching up to Tardif and him losing his spot on the PP by the second half of the season. The team also had dynamic rookie Miro Frycer (before dealing him to the Leafs for Wilf Paiement) and sent Tardif's center from the previous season Robbie Ftorek to the Rangers early on in the year, meaning he was consigned to third-line duties with the likes of Pierre Aubry at center and a drunken Jacques Richard on the right side. I'm just guessing that dwindling ES ice time, getting less PP time and having line mates that were less effective offensively didn't help a struggling 32-year old.

Good post. You clarified something else for me as well. I compared him to Jaques Richard and I felt that was inaccurate or at least off at the time.
Goulet makes for an excellent comparison, stylistically. Without having seen Tardif's early years, I still feel confident saying that.

 

[NHLStatsMan67]

I also have wondered what would happened if Marc Tardif had stayed in Montreal. What would his numbers have been like during the Montreal 1976-1979 dynasty years?