Marc Methot saving 1.4 million dollars.

[DistantThunderRep]

learn about RCA's before you spout this nonsense.

Of course the NBA banned RCA's. The majority of Raptors players live in the US and retire there.

RCA withdrawals, last I checked so I may be wrong, are subject to 30% tax at the time of withdrawal? Which would make it lower than the federal rate in the states. This is if you retire in Canada BTW.

Upon retirement or a change of employment status the beneficiary will draw from the assets of the RCA Trust. An amount equal to 50% of the distribution from the investment account will be refunded to the investment account from the RTA account after the T3-RCA Tax Return has been completed at the calendar year-end. Withdrawals are flexible and not subject to any restrictions on maximum or minimums. They are however, subject to withholding tax at a rate of 30% if located in Canada. Another benefit at withdrawal is that money contributed at today’s tax rates may be withdrawn in the future at lower rates. This will be dependent on current rates having decreased or the beneficiary moving to a lower tax jurisdiction in Canada, or outside Canada in countries such as the United States or Australia where tax treaties result in lower withholding rates.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Everyone's tax situation is different, especially with various means you can legally reduce your tax burden that have different levels of benefits for different individuals, trying to tie the salary cap to post-tax earnings is impossible and kind of a silly premise. The NHL CBA should not be looking to government tax policy. You get paid what you get, and what happens after that, including tax wise, isn't the CBA's business.

 

[MadLuke]

RCA withdrawals, last I checked so I may be wrong, are subject to 30% tax at the time of withdrawal? Which would make it lower than the federal rate in the states. This is if you retire in Canada BTW.

I think there is a different between withhold and actual tax rate, a bit like your employer withhold an amount on your paycheck at the end of the year it can end up different and you will have to pay or get reimbursed, those rough value are to make it easier to collect and not have giant surprise at the end of the year and will tend to be for the standard case, not necessarily for a multi millionaire withdrawing large amount (I could be wrong here).

It sound like it is the kind of things that are interesting if your revenues are lower in the future and not all on the maximum tax rate, for people that make giant amount of money in a short amount of year and need to slowly use it over 50 year's like a pro athlete it can be interesting tax wise.

https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/...ment.pdf/2f7c7df1-766a-4a8b-8084-58ead729e978
All distributions out of an RCA trust are fully taxable and subject to withholding tax at source... d. You have to report the RCA income as “other income” on your income tax return in the year it is received. It is taxable at your marginal tax rate.

 

[Rschmitz]

No thanks. Much prefer to live in a country that actually cares about it's citizens.

And I accept the fact that I pay more in taxes than others and care less that Canadian born players don't want to play in Canada.

Good choice

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

I'll end my participation in this thread by stating, the blame isn't on taxes. It's solely on Canadian born players who DO NOT want to play in Canada. That simple.

Name 10 examples.

 

[mouser]

RCA withdrawals, last I checked so I may be wrong, are subject to 30% tax at the time of withdrawal? Which would make it lower than the federal rate in the states. This is if you retire in Canada BTW.

30% is the withholding rate, not the final tax rate.

 

[Legion34]

I can’t believe we do this every single year. Again. Because nothing ever changes. For review

1.) NHL players agents coaches GMs and accountants have consensus that tax breaks significantly affect pay and negotiations.
-methot
- petrys agent said he had to explain Montreal vs Edmonton pay
-as a 17 year old Mcdavid was talking about how where he gets drafted effects his pay
-radulov said taxes effected his decision
-poile negotiates in nashville dollars
-multiple Vegas players on chiclets have talked about tax breaks
-Jamie benn was called “the richest guy in the league” due to Dallas breaks.
-Burke is a president and GM of multiple teams
-nhls accountants with players have made calculators
-lewis gross has charts for his players on take home pay

the ACTUAL people who get the paycheques make the money write the cheques and negotiate all say it. The fans who ignore it are just being ridiculous

 

[Legion34]

2.) people argue success weather etc. But the most successful desireable places like rangers. La. Chi. SJ etc don’t get breaks

3.) people make ridiculous arguments about out of states and RCA. 1.) to be out of state you have to prove your primary residence. You make all your money in a place. It’s hard to say you don’t get taxed there. Owning property kids in school. Long term lease and car rentals all go into. It. Players on long term contracts find it hard to prove every year

 

[Legion34]

3.) people come up with ridiculous things that make no sense. “Well other things aren’t fair... so let’s have an endorsement cap or a weather cap”. The whole point is nobody is saying things in nature have to be fair. There was a free market forever. That would have been the same as the “weather etc”. The problem is when you artificially impose a cap. You have to make it fair.



4.)RCAs don’t work the way people think they do.
-you lock up all your savings. So front loading is gone
-you have to Wait for 15 years and then move to get the same rates. Which affects opportunities down the road.

RCA are different in the NBA because Toronto players only play 41 games in Canada. Canadian teams play more than half. Plus many are from here so it doesn’t work.

option A: 10 million in your hand
Option B: 4.7 million in your hand now. Then put 5.3 in some silly bond and hope there is no crash and 15 years from now move your kids or don’t take a coaching job etc because you need to try to get the money back.

If to make things “fair” you have to wait 15 years and determine where you live and jobs and limit your income.....it’s not fair


Good plan Allan Walsh.

 

[glovesave_35]

What artificial cap did the league institute for “parity” that Tavares was able to circumvent?

Parity may have been part of the veneer sold to the public, but cost certainty was always the reason why the owners held out for a salary cap.

This is the same conversation that goes 'round and 'round. Methot saying this isn't even news. Tyler Seguin admitted point blank in a radio interview in Dallas that part of the reason he signed his extension was the tax benefits. This is not news to anyone who matters.

 

[Legion34]

Parity may have been part of the veneer sold to the public, but cost certainty was always the reason why the owners held out for a salary cap.

This is the same conversation that goes 'round and 'round. Methot saying this isn't even news. Tyler Seguin admitted point blank in a radio interview in Dallas that part of the reason he signed his extension was the tax benefits. This is not news to anyone who matters.

sure. But cost certainty could be applied in many ways. As long as the players got 50% of HRR. It doesn’t mean all teams had to get the same caps. Any more than all players do.

they chose parity

 

[WarriorofTime]

I can’t believe we do this every single year. Again. Because nothing ever changes. For review

1.) NHL players agents coaches GMs and accountants have consensus that tax breaks significantly affect pay and negotiations.
-methot
- petrys agent said he had to explain Montreal vs Edmonton pay
-as a 17 year old Mcdavid was talking about how where he gets drafted effects his pay
-radulov said taxes effected his decision
-poile negotiates in nashville dollars
-multiple Vegas players on chiclets have talked about tax breaks
-Jamie benn was called “the richest guy in the league” due to Dallas breaks.
-Burke is a president and GM of multiple teams
-nhls accountants with players have made calculators
-lewis gross has charts for his players on take home pay

the ACTUAL people who get the paycheques make the money write the cheques and negotiate all say it. The fans who ignore it are just being ridiculous

Someone call the WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMBULANCE. The NHL doesn't control what local governments decide to do with their taxes.

 

[Legion34]

Someone call the WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMBULANCE. The NHL doesn't control what local governments decide to do with their taxes.

no. But the NHL does control their artificial salary cap

 

[WarriorofTime]

no. But the NHL does control their artificial salary cap

The salary cap is not going to account for whatever specific deductions and such players get. Taxes are a lot more complicated than X% of everyone's income goes to Taxes.

 

[mouser]

4.)RCAs don’t work the way people think they do.
-you lock up all your savings. So front loading is gone
-you have to Wait for 15 years and then move to get the same rates. Which affects opportunities down the road.

RCA are different in the NBA because Toronto players only play 41 games in Canada. Canadian teams play more than half. Plus many are from here so it doesn’t work.

option A: 10 million in your hand
Option B: 4.7 million in your hand now. Then put 5.3 in some silly bond and hope there is no crash and 15 years from now move your kids or don’t take a coaching job etc because you need to try to get the money back.

If to make things “fair” you have to wait 15 years and determine where you live and jobs and limit your income.....it’s not fair


Good plan Allan Walsh.

Millions upon millions upon millions of people in the U.S. and Canada lock up money in tax deferred accounts. Most of which can’t be touched without penalty until you’ve hit retirement age. I would have loved the option of a RCA here in the U.S. it’s so much more flexible for tax planning then a 401k or IRA.

Your example is flawed. Here’s a better description using a 50% tax rate:

Option A: $5m in hand after taxes
Option B: $2.35m in hand after taxes, $5.3m in a tax deferred account that can grow and compound tax free.

The RCA can invest in individual stocks, bonds, pooled/mutual funds and many other assets. The flexibility of where RCA money can be invested is far greater then any Americans experience with their 401k’s. And you can expect RCA’s with higher earners like professional athletes to provide more self directed flexibility on investment decisions.

Even if you prefer the Option A more money in hand up front, what is the athlete going to do with that money? One would hope a substantial portion of that money is going to be invested. While the RCA can’t invest in every single thing a free dollar can do, it can invest in a very large % of the same assets the player would likely do. If a lot of the player earnings is going to be invested anyway, why not take the tax deferred approach when available?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I can’t believe we do this every single year. Again. Because nothing ever changes. For review

1.) NHL players agents coaches GMs and accountants have consensus that tax breaks significantly affect pay and negotiations.
-methot
- petrys agent said he had to explain Montreal vs Edmonton pay
-as a 17 year old Mcdavid was talking about how where he gets drafted effects his pay
-radulov said taxes effected his decision
-poile negotiates in nashville dollars
-multiple Vegas players on chiclets have talked about tax breaks
-Jamie benn was called “the richest guy in the league” due to Dallas breaks.
-Burke is a president and GM of multiple teams
-nhls accountants with players have made calculators
-lewis gross has charts for his players on take home pay

the ACTUAL people who get the paycheques make the money write the cheques and negotiate all say it. The fans who ignore it are just being ridiculous

Ah, I see you went to the University of TSN.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Millions upon millions upon millions of people in the U.S. and Canada lock up money in tax deferred accounts. Most of which can’t be touched without penalty until you’ve hit retirement age. I would have loved the option of a RCA here in the U.S. it’s so much more flexible for tax planning then a 401k or IRA.

Your example is flawed. Here’s a better description using a 50% tax rate:

Option A: $5m in hand after taxes
Option B: $2.35m in hand after taxes, $5.3m in a tax deferred account that can grow and compound tax free.

The RCA can invest in individual stocks, bonds, pooled/mutual funds and many other assets. The flexibility of where RCA money can be invested is far greater then any Americans experience with their 401k’s. And you can expect RCA’s with higher earners like professional athletes to provide more self directed flexibility on investment decisions.

Even if you prefer the Option A more money in hand up front, what is the athlete going to do with that money? One would hope a substantial portion of that money is going to be invested. While the RCA can’t invest in every single thing a free dollar can do, it can invest in a very large % of the same assets the player would likely do. If a lot of the player earnings is going to be invested anyway, why not take the tax deferred approach when available?

Because that doesn't fit the narrative and herpa derp Salary Cap.

Also, I am understanding correctly that the RCA matches what you put in?

 

[Legion34]

Millions upon millions upon millions of people in the U.S. and Canada lock up money in tax deferred accounts. Most of which can’t be touched without penalty until you’ve hit retirement age. I would have loved the option of a RCA here in the U.S. it’s so much more flexible for tax planning then a 401k or IRA.

Your example is flawed. Here’s a better description using a 50% tax rate:

Option A: $5m in hand after taxes
Option B: $2.35m in hand after taxes, $5.3m in a tax deferred account that can grow and compound tax free.

The RCA can invest in individual stocks, bonds, pooled/mutual funds and many other assets. The flexibility of where RCA money can be invested is far greater then any Americans experience with their 401k’s. And you can expect RCA’s with higher earners like professional athletes to provide more self directed flexibility on investment decisions.

Even if you prefer the Option A more money in hand up front, what is the athlete going to do with that money? One would hope a substantial portion of that money is going to be invested. While the RCA can’t invest in every single thing a free dollar can do, it can invest in a very large % of the same assets the player would likely do. If a lot of the player earnings is going to be invested anyway, why not take the tax deferred approach when available?

And if millions upon millions of people had the option to take the money tax free and invest where they chose..... it looks like it would be a pretty easy decision.

Money now is better than money later. Private investors are better than RCA and TFSA.

real estate. Crypto. Whatever a person chooses. Heck even the exact same accounts. Freedom and flexibility matter

Bottom line is. None of us are in their spot (likely)
So it’s not about us. It’s about them.

players agents GMs accountants say tax free is better. They are the ones signing the deals and cashing the cheques

 

[smokes lets go]

So did kucherov make more money on ltir this year instead of playing?

 

[mouser]

Because that doesn't fit the narrative and herpa derp Salary Cap.

Also, I am understanding correctly that the RCA matches what you put in?

For NHL players, No.

For other people with RCA’s potentially Yes.

Employers can choose to match or contribute some amount of money to employee RCA’s, but the NHL would still view such a contribution to a Player as direct compensation included in the NHL contract and thus factored into the cap hit.

 

[ref19]

No thanks. Much prefer to live in a country that actually cares about it's citizens.

And I accept the fact that I pay more in taxes than others and care less that Canadian born players don't want to play in Canada.

USA is a far better place but Canada is nice too.

 

[mouser]

And if millions upon millions of people had the option to take the money tax free and invest where they chose..... it looks like it would be a pretty easy decision.

Money now is better than money later. Private investors are better than RCA and TFSA.

real estate. Crypto. Whatever a person chooses. Heck even the exact same accounts. Freedom and flexibility matter

Bottom line is. None of us are in their spot (likely)
So it’s not about us. It’s about them.

players agents GMs accountants say tax free is better. They are the ones signing the deals and cashing the cheques

I’m not getting your “tax free” argument here, nor “money now vs money” later.

- Any investment earnings are going to be taxed going forward. Whether those investments come from your Option A or B.

- The Player is being paid “Now” when the money goes into the RCA, fully available to invest and compound.


If you have the time to research, I would love to see a example of a single Player Agent or GM who says RCA’s can’t significantly reduce a Players effective tax rate. I honestly doubt any of them ever said “players agents GMs accountants say tax free is better.”

 

[DistantThunderRep]

So did kucherov make more money on ltir this year instead of playing?

Little more, yes. Because his salary was all in Tampa. Would have still been no state tax in Nashville, Florida, and Dallas but would have to pay in Carolina, Chicago, Detroit, and Columbus.

If anything players on the tax teams playing in this division made more money is some cases.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I’m not getting your “tax free” argument here, nor “money now vs money” later.

- Any investment earnings are going to be taxed going forward. Whether those investments come from your Option A or B.

- The Player is being paid “Now” when the money goes into the RCA, fully available to invest and compound.


If you have the time to research, I would love to see a example of a single Player Agent or GM who says RCA’s can’t significantly reduce a Players effective tax rate. I honestly doubt any of them ever said “players agents GMs accountants say tax free is better.”

I'm expecting a Burke video in your future...again...

 

[glovesave_35]

sure. But cost certainty could be applied in many ways. As long as the players got 50% of HRR. It doesn’t mean all teams had to get the same caps. Any more than all players do.

they chose parity

In actual practice, how does that work?