Marc Bergevin - Would I lie to you Edition

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admiralcadillac

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Oct 22, 2017
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What's your take on Drouin playing Center?

I'd rather have a guy who is a centre play centre. I just don't see chucky as a centre either, he's barely a first line player at the moment.

Sorry if you were expecting me to say something along the lines of "Drouin deserves being the no.1 centre of the canadiens, especially considering he's french".
 

CalgarySnow

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Oct 21, 2017
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The silence from the Habs has been deafening in response to Saturday’s game, no reassurance about how to sort out the mess etc etc instead we get a distraction technique that Trump would be proud of in wheeling out Price on the ice to say look he’s practicing he’ll be back soon and everything will be ok. I can’t be the only one expecting some stupid trade in the next couple of days (just please don’t let it be be a Gallagher to Oilers one)
 

Slew Foots

Everything is OK
Sep 6, 2006
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Good read, Serge didn`t pull any punches especially about the moves on defence.

The organization`s ears should be burning hearing some of what he said.
You should listen to the whole interview (the recording is there in the link I posted). What they used in the article is an overly diluted (or sugar coated) version of what Savard was conveying.
 

CauZuki

Registered User
Feb 19, 2008
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I'd rather have a guy who is a centre play centre. I just don't see chucky as a centre either, he's barely a first line player at the moment.

Sorry if you were expecting me to say something along the lines of "Drouin deserves being the no.1 centre of the canadiens, especially considering he's french".

The reason I bring it up is as a filter to see if a poster already falls within one of the extreme categories , that way I know to avoid replying any further. Getting tired of posters repeating the same diatribe with no logic attached to it.

In regards to Galchenyuk , although he has his issues , why do you think he isn't a Center? When he has produced better results at C than any other position (with 100+ game sample size). When looking at the cumulated stats of all players between the start of the season in 2015 and his injury on Dec 4th 2016 (link doesn't work , but it's fairly easy to build a filter on NHL.com). This is where he played full-time at C all of 2015-2016 and over that time has more goals than Pacioretty and is in the top 40 for points/goals in the NHL. He is one of our most skilled forwards (if not in the same territory as Drouin).

That being said ,his defensive zone coverage needed work , he has improved but still needs to get better (but has shown no signs of not wanting to improve his game). His faceoff stats are well within range for a Center with little experience at the position , often times the best faceoff guys are experienced veterans.

What other knocks are there that stop him from playing C?
 
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admiralcadillac

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
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The reason I bring it up is as a filter to see if a poster already falls within one of the extreme categories , that way I know to avoid replying any further. Getting tired of posters repeating the same diatribe with no logic attached to it.

In regards to Galchenyuk , although he has his issues , why do you think he isn't a Center? When he has produced better results at C than any other position (with 100+ game sample size). When looking at the cumulated stats of all players between the start of the season in 2015 and his injury on Dec 4th 2016 (link doesn't work , but it's fairly easy to build a filter on NHL.com). This is where he played full-time at C all of 2015-2016 and over that time has more goals than Pacioretty and is in the top 40 for points/goals in the NHL. He is one of our most skilled forwards (if not in the same territory as Drouin).

That being said ,his defensive zone coverage needed work , he has improved but still needs to get better (but has shown no signs of not wanting to improve his game). His faceoff stats are well within range for a Center with little experience at the position , often times the best faceoff guys are experienced veterans.

What other knocks are there that stop him from playing C?

I just don't think he is a very intelligent player, maybe person in general. I think he can be a brilliant goal scorer but not only is his major asset (his offense) something he doesn't bring to the table consistently enough but like you said his defensive work is just not there. He does backcheck on regular occasions, when he wants to he can be competent but I think mentally he is lacking that gear.

I like the player but something is missing from his game and its hard to place because he just offers no consistency.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
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Ottawa
Bring in someone with no previous ties to this organization, city and province.

Its the only way we'll have a GM manage this team worrying about perception/optics or living up to the nostalgia of the past.
 
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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Bring in someone with no previous ties to this organization, city and province.

Its the only way we'll have a GM manage this team worrying about perception/optics or living up to the nostalgia of the past.

Bergevin had no ties to the organization. You will never find a bilingual candidate without ties to the city or province. And you'd never find a unilingual candidate that would be given enough time to learn the language without ties to the city, province and media.
 

McGuires Corndog

Marc Bergevin juju exorcist
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Feb 6, 2008
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Bring in someone with no previous ties to this organization, city and province.

Its the only way we'll have a GM manage this team worrying about perception/optics or living up to the nostalgia of the past.

I definitely agree with you here.

That being said I really thought Bergevin was that guy 6 years ago, and we can all see how that has worked out.

Julien Brisebois has previous ties to the organization and I think he's a strong candidate for the position. He's more of a "by the numbers" kinda guy who isn't blinded by a previous NHL career.

But to be direct, he's the only one with previous ties to the organization I'd consider for the position.
 

E82

Registered User
Feb 3, 2015
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It's interesting to me the paralysis folks have had on trading Pacioretty. Not a lot of teams have a guy who scores as consistent as he does at his level but they definitely have guys who score 5 goals less with more leadership and drive. And they do it in lesser roles.

You trade Pacioretty, you don't replace his goals. You replace everything else. Many some are too young to remember Richer for Muller. Montreal never replaced those goals but they got someone they could actually rely on, who moved to centre and shined.

You have to ask yourself what's more important? A regular season 35 goal scorer who leads you nowhere or a new team dynamic that gets you somewhere?
Yup especially a player that scores a shit ton against weaker teams. Has difficulties engaging himself when playing better teams.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
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Ottawa
Bergevin had no ties to the organization. You will never find a bilingual candidate without ties to the city or province. And you'd never find a unilingual candidate that would be given enough time to learn the language without ties to the city, province and media.
Bergevin had ties to the province...

And you don't need to be from Quebec to speak french and french, can be taught/learned, especially hockey conversational french.

It doesn't take an eternity to learn how to speak french, especially when you speak 5 or 6 times a year.

Speaking French should be a requirement once you get the job, it shouldn't be a qualifier.

Until Molson bites the bullet on that, we'll continue to recycle the same types of GM's with the same ideas and people to please in this province.

Yeah, even Julien Brisebois
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Well, I don't think they should but I'm afraid they will

It's my belief and hope that Molson isn't working in a vacuum, and that he regularly speaks with hockey people not necessarily directly in the employ of the team. My hope is that he is getting intelligent commentary, opinions and advice about his team there.
 

McGuires Corndog

Marc Bergevin juju exorcist
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Bergevin had no ties to the organization. You will never find a bilingual candidate without ties to the city or province. And you'd never find a unilingual candidate that would be given enough time to learn the language without ties to the city, province and media.

That's the same point I made, and it's a good one.

I think it's important to bring in someone who will bring this team into the 21st century.. essentially what was promised in Marc Bergevin at the beginning. Turned out he was a bigger dinosaur in his approach to the game than Gainey (AInec)
 

NeptunesTrident

Registered User
Feb 22, 2007
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Lamoriello is up for a contract in Toronto at the end of the season. He would be an interesting choice for President of Hockey Operations or GM.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Bergevin had ties to the province...

And you don't need to be from Quebec to speak french and french, can be taught/learned, especially hockey conversational french.

It doesn't take an eternity to learn how to speak french, especially when you speak 5 or 6 times a year.

Speaking French should be a requirement once you get the job, it shouldn't be a qualifier.

Until Molson bites the bullet on that, we'll continue to recycle the same types of GM's with the same ideas and people to please in this province.

Yeah, even Julien Brisebois

Ok, who out there that has no ties to the team, city or province that the language jackanapes in the media will give enough time to learn the language and become accepted?
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
I definitely agree with you here.

That being said I really thought Bergevin was that guy 6 years ago, and we can all see how that has worked out.

Julien Brisebois has previous ties to the organization and I think he's a strong candidate for the position. He's more of a "by the numbers" kinda guy who isn't blinded by a previous NHL career.

But to be direct, he's the only one with previous ties to the organization I'd consider for the position.
I just don't want anyone whose had ANYTHING to do with this organization in the past. No ties whatsoever.

Someone who can make important decisions without emotional attachment or fear of reprisal from bigoted fans and/or media members.

The language thing is ridiculous...you don't need to be Mensa member to learn how to repeat canned responses at Press Conferences 5 times a year.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
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East Coast
In a few years you'll realize that this comparison is pure bull****.

Nothing will convince you other than the passage of time and seeking most of these prospects bust.

Nope. You are talking about hope and I am talking about probably based on quantity of more top 100 picks. Don't misunderstand me either. I'm not saying we are the next Lightning when it comes to growing a group of prospects. I'm saying we are turning the corner and we have a much better prospect pool than what we had in 2012.

Consider this... Let me show you a few comparisons to make you think a bit more... I have not done this to all teams but I will be. Takes time. However the trends are going to make you take fits becuase you say "I can't be convinced and I'm in denial" Who's the one in denial?

Habs:
2008-2011: Our draft picks have played a total of 768 NHL games.
2012-2017: Our draft picks have played a total of 783 NHL games

Blackhawks:
2008-2011:
Our draft picks have played a total of 2831 NHL games.
2012-2017: Our draft picks have played a total of 545 NHL games

Red Wings:
2008-2011:
Our draft picks have played a total of 2320 NHL games.
2012-2017: Our draft picks have played a total of 506 NHL games

Leafs:
2008-2011:
Our draft picks have played a total of 1798 NHL games.
2012-2017: Our draft picks have played a total of 815 NHL games

Now, I absolutely dare you to go compare this to the rest of the league. If you don't reply, I will take it that you have submitted to losing this debate. If you do reply, I hope you are willing to understand what I have been saying all along. Avoid the pissing contest... Go figure out how these numbers compare to rest of the league.

768 NHL games from the Habs prospects from 2008-2011. One of the worse, if not the worse 4 years of drafting you will ever see! How you can't see this affected our ability to improve our team back in 2012+ is delusional.
 
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