Marc Bergevin: Tilting at Windmills Edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

ArtPeur

Have a Snickers
Mar 30, 2010
13,517
11,340
Were not going to win a cup with Galchenyuk and Danault as out top 2 centers. But it's a much better roster vs anything we had in the last decade though.

No doubt Bergevin has been active on the trade market in both trading high end talent and depth moves. He has tinkered with various options and I think he is not very good at managing elite level talent. My point however, is I rather not be cup pretender and I like how we have youth movement. I want more of it (with Bergevin as our GM or not)

Youth movement on the OP's lineup or youth movement on our current lineup?

His lineup has: Gallagher (26), Hudon (24), Galchenyuk (24), Mete (20), Sergachev (20), Danault (25), Lehkonen (23), Armia (25), Juulsen (21)
... with Eller, Patch, Price, Radulov, Petry at 29-31

His lineup is pretty balanced. Maybe too many youngsters on the blueline but it could fare well in the season and possibly in the playoffs. Much better than we have right now
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peanut

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,165
25,915
East Coast
Youth movement on the OP's lineup or youth movement on our current lineup?

His lineup has: Gallagher (26), Hudon (24), Galchenyuk (24), Mete (20), Sergachev (20), Danault (25), Lehkonen (23), Armia (25), Juulsen (21)
... with Eller, Patch, Price, Radulov, Petry at 29-31

His lineup is pretty balanced. Maybe too many youngsters on the blueline but it could fare well in the season and possibly in the playoffs. Much better than we have right now

No doubt it's much better and I already said that. Still huge holes up the middle and we end up cup pretenders for several years. If you enjoy losing in the 1st and 2nd round... all the power to you. Myself, I want a youth movement and various top 5 picks with the shot at a lottery win.
 

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
Did they really just labeled their season ticket holders as their most valuable and previous fans?...
So everyone else is...."meh" fans?
Loll this organization can't even promote a simple event properly...
They are so bad.

Good catch.

Reminds of a statement by Kevin Lowe in 2013 that divided fans into tiers and it caused an uproar. Lowe had said:

We have two types of fans: we have paying customers and we have people that watch the game that we still care about but certainly the people that go to the games and support we spend a lot of time talking to them, delivering our message.

Someone had responded online at the time:

On another level, it’s a breathtakingly stupid thing to say given that a) the fans that go to the games regularly represent a minority of an extremely large fanbase and b) the fans that aren’t regularly in attendance at Rexall still mean a great deal to the financial fortunes of the team. They’re the people who make the Oilers television rights valuable, they’re the people who buy the majority of the team’s merchandise, and to some non-trivial degree they’re also the people that need to be sold on community involvement in a new arena.

From a public relations perspective, there’s simply no reason to remind this rather large group of devoted fans that they matter much less to the organization than the folks shelling out big money for season tickets.

Kevin Lowe: “We have two types of fans.”

Maybe Geoff and co. are dumb enough to believe that their pitches to season ticket holders won't be leaked at large. Wrong again.
 

justafan22

Registered User
Jun 22, 2014
11,629
6,249
Good catch.

Reminds of a statement by Kevin Lowe in 2013 that divided fans into tiers and it caused an uproar. Lowe had said:

We have two types of fans: we have paying customers and we have people that watch the game that we still care about but certainly the people that go to the games and support we spend a lot of time talking to them, delivering our message.

Someone had responded online at the time:

On another level, it’s a breathtakingly stupid thing to say given that a) the fans that go to the games regularly represent a minority of an extremely large fanbase and b) the fans that aren’t regularly in attendance at Rexall still mean a great deal to the financial fortunes of the team. They’re the people who make the Oilers television rights valuable, they’re the people who buy the majority of the team’s merchandise, and to some non-trivial degree they’re also the people that need to be sold on community involvement in a new arena.

From a public relations perspective, there’s simply no reason to remind this rather large group of devoted fans that they matter much less to the organization than the folks shelling out big money for season tickets.

Kevin Lowe: “We have two types of fans.”

Maybe Geoff and co. are dumb enough to believe that their pitches to season ticket holders won't be leaked at large. Wrong again.

It's going to be heavily vetted and a PR disaster
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
BTW guys,

1) Nearly all teams have had lottery picks in the past two decades;
2) Nearly all (all?) cap-era Cup Champs have included lottery picks or the players acquired with lottery picks.

So it's extremely lazy and uninformative to say that a particular team is only good because of tanking.

Rather that tanking seems like an integral part of building a champion, nowadays at least.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
Good catch.


Reminds of a statement by Kevin Lowe in 2013 that divided fans into tiers and it caused an uproar. Lowe had said:

We have two types of fans: we have paying customers and we have people that watch the game that we still care about but certainly the people that go to the games and support we spend a lot of time talking to them, delivering our message.

Someone had responded online at the time:

On another level, it’s a breathtakingly stupid thing to say given that a) the fans that go to the games regularly represent a minority of an extremely large fanbase and b) the fans that aren’t regularly in attendance at Rexall still mean a great deal to the financial fortunes of the team. They’re the people who make the Oilers television rights valuable, they’re the people who buy the majority of the team’s merchandise, and to some non-trivial degree they’re also the people that need to be sold on community involvement in a new arena.

From a public relations perspective, there’s simply no reason to remind this rather large group of devoted fans that they matter much less to the organization than the folks shelling out big money for season tickets.

Kevin Lowe: “We have two types of fans.”

Maybe Geoff and co. are dumb enough to believe that their pitches to season ticket holders won't be leaked at large. Wrong again.


****in hell.

I wish we had another, better owner for the Habs.

That's my single biggest wish when it comes to my favorite team.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
Fun fact -

Since 2004 (the year the Caps drafted Ovi which I included), the Habs have had 4 first round selections at the number 10 position or lower while the Caps have had 3.
Top ten pick is not the same as a lottery pick. The year matters too. And a #1 on a good year can be worth so much more than a #1 in a bad draft year.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
Did they really just labeled their season ticket holders as their most valuable and previous fans?...
So everyone else is...."meh" fans?
Loll this organization can't even promote a simple event properly...
They are so bad.

I got say though, this is a corporate philosophy which is conventional. People who buy the season tickets, shell out the most money. It's normal to make your most valued customers feel like they are the most valued costumers. You kinda put a lot of weight into your own conclusion. Seeing them as their most valued costumers doesn't automatically preclude they see the rest as far inferior.

Not the way Lowe put it anyway. That was a PR nightmare.
 

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
Not the way Lowe put it anyway. That was a PR nightmare.

No, but both the Habs's summit invite and Lowe divided fans into tiers, suggesting that one type of customer is better than another. While Lowe stated it overtly, the Habs's pitch does so by inference.

Same end-result.
 
Last edited:

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
When did the Habs say this?

In this text, where they call season ticket holders "nos plus précieux clients" (our most valued clients):

hockey30-2018-08-07-%C3%A0-20.47.04.png


Ergo, if season ticket holders represent the Habs's most valued clients, then the rest of their clientele, by inference, is not as "valued". It evokes a tiering of the fan base.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
In this text, where they call season ticket holders "nos plus précieux clients" (our most valued clients):

hockey30-2018-08-07-%C3%A0-20.47.04.png


Ergo, if season ticket holders represent the Habs's most valued clients, then the rest of their clientele, by inference, is not as "valued". It evokes a tiering of the fan base.

Dude, backtrack my posts a bit.

This is what I said about putting a lot of weight into your own conclusion (KrissE).

You have to infer a lot more into what the Habs said, and what they did is kinda normal, as I previously said, incensing your most valued customers is a normal thing, especially with the amount of money people shell out.

With Lowe, there wasn't much to infer.

Whereas with the Habs you can't automatically infer that the rest of the fans don't matter.

Pretty sure that most teams will tell their season ticket holders that they are their most important customers. This doesn't mean that the rest are not important, which is the leap Lowe took and that the Habs and most teams won't do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 417 and jaffy27

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
Dude, backtrack my posts a bit.

This is what I said about putting a lot of weight into your own conclusion (KrissE).

You have to infer a lot more into what the Habs said, and what they did is kinda normal, as I previously said, incensing your most valued customers is a normal thing, especially with the amount of money people shell out.

With Lowe, there wasn't much to infer.

Whereas with the Habs you can't automatically infer that the rest of the fans don't matter.

Pretty sure that most teams will tell their season ticket holders that they are their most important customers. This doesn't mean that the rest are not important, which is the leap Lowe took and that the Habs and most teams won't do.

"Dude", I'll respectfully disagree. A distinction is being made. All fans should be valued, they all contribute to the Habs's coffers. If you call season ticket holders your most valued clientele, then someone has just become their less valued clientele. It goes without saying.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
"Dude", I'll respectfully disagree. A distinction is being made. All fans should be valued, they all contribute to the Habs's coffers. If you call season ticket holders your most valued clientele, then someone has just become their less valued clientele. It goes without saying.

I don't see it that way.

If I'm buying season tickets, I'll expect the red carpet treatment compared to other fans.

As someone who doesn't buy season tickets, I don't feel offended by this in the least.

And maybe I'm not shocked because I don't expect any better from Molson.


Also your inference of 'tiered fans' is a leap. If questioned about this, Habs would quite probably say something along the lines of, all our fans are important to us, but we want to give a special thanks to season ticket holders.

It's all PR philosophy anyway. Not any different than anywhere else in the corporate world.
 

OnTheRun

/dev/null
May 17, 2014
12,092
10,541
I don't see it that way.

If I'm buying season tickets, I'll expect the red carpet treatment compared to other fans.

As someone who doesn't buy season tickets, I don't feel offended by this in the least.

And maybe I'm not shocked because I don't expect any better from Molson.


Also your inference of 'tiered fans' is a leap. If questioned about this, Habs would quite probably say something along the lines of, all our fans are important to us, but we want to give a special thanks to season ticket holders.

It's all PR philosophy anyway. Not any different than anywhere else in the corporate world.

Well yeah it's all PR and that letter is mediocre PR at best due to poor choice of words.

Anyways, if season tickets holders "sont les plus précieux" then make sure they feel that way when they go the game, don't tell them they are because first its an empty statement and second you are (indirectly) tiering your fans.

It's not a big deal as far as I am concerned, but it show that this organization need to improve in many areas, including PR.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
Well yeah it's all PR and that letter is mediocre PR at best due to poor choice of words.

Anyways, if season tickets holders "sont les plus précieux" then make sure they feel that way when they go the game, don't tell them they are because first its an empty statement and second you are (indirectly) tiering your fans.

It's not a big deal as far as I am concerned, but it show that this organization need to improve in many areas, including PR.

Didnt they just changed the PR guy
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryson

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,274
24,850
Montreal
I don't see it that way.

If I'm buying season tickets, I'll expect the red carpet treatment compared to other fans.

As someone who doesn't buy season tickets, I don't feel offended by this in the least.

And maybe I'm not shocked because I don't expect any better from Molson.


Also your inference of 'tiered fans' is a leap. If questioned about this, Habs would quite probably say something along the lines of, all our fans are important to us, but we want to give a special thanks to season ticket holders.

It's all PR philosophy anyway. Not any different than anywhere else in the corporate world.
I see it the same way. We live in a tiered world where extra money gets you extra treatment. If I chose to spend money on season tickets I'd expect this kind of perk. However, I have no intention of spending a dime on Habs tickets and don't begrudge those who did their special meet & greet. Doesn't offend me in the slightest.
 

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
I don't see it that way.

If I'm buying season tickets, I'll expect the red carpet treatment compared to other fans.

As someone who doesn't buy season tickets, I don't feel offended by this in the least.

And maybe I'm not shocked because I don't expect any better from Molson.


Also your inference of 'tiered fans' is a leap. If questioned about this, Habs would quite probably say something along the lines of, all our fans are important to us, but we want to give a special thanks to season ticket holders.

It's all PR philosophy anyway. Not any different than anywhere else in the corporate world.

I too don't have an issue with them receiving perks, it's not about that.

If you're a pro organization, it behooves you to use the utmost care in how you word your communication. You may disagree about the ultimate impact or intent, however, it does leave the door open to a different interpretation.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,274
24,850
Montreal
I too don't have an issue with them receiving perks, it's not about that.

If you're a pro organization, it behooves you to use the utmost care in how you word your communication. You may disagree about the ultimate impact or intent, however, it does leave the door open to a different interpretation.
True, but at least it was an internal communication with season-ticket-holders and not a public statement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 417

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
True, but at least it was an internal communication with season-ticket-holders and not a public statement.

If you're going to write anything to your season ticket base, you have to assume that privacy will not be certain.

To wit, there has been several similar perk-type communication intended for season ticket holders that is routinely divulged on the internets. If I were heading the Habs PR Dept., I would not assume that anything written at large to a segment of the fanbase will remain for internal consumption only. Hence the impetus to choose one's wording carefully.
 
  • Like
Reactions: groovejuice

Runner77

**********************************************
Sponsor
Jun 24, 2012
83,292
148,954
Well yeah it's all PR and that letter is mediocre PR at best due to poor choice of words.

Anyways, if season tickets holders "sont les plus précieux" then make sure they feel that way when they go the game, don't tell them they are because first its an empty statement and second you are (indirectly) tiering your fans.

It's not a big deal as far as I am concerned, but it show that this organization need to improve in many areas, including PR.

If they really were really practising greater transparency, the heading of that Habs's pitch might have looked like this ...

2fj1m2.jpg


"Sommeil" more closely describes the on-ice product this season is likely to offer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->