Marc Bergevin " So your telling me there's a chance" edition

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SirClintonPortis

ProudCapitalsTraitor
Mar 9, 2011
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Maryland native
I mean you may be right about our roster not being great but how about we start by getting the most out of it?

Why in the world was Galchenyuk playing on the 4th line for the first however many games? It's idiotic.

Our roster isn't that bad. It's MUCH better than Vegas imo. Yet look at the results....
Where do you get the information that Vegas has terrible players? Or are you mistaking unheralded names for garbage? Shea Theodore, Nate Schmidt, and Colin Miller are ten times more skilled than our entire D corps. Just a cursory look at the hockeynews scouting profile indicates that they are defensemen with plenty of offense in them. These sleeper players and late bloomers have always existed before. Hell, before the 2010-2011 season, a guy like Mark Giordano was viewed in the same way as a solid second pair guy or just unknown to those who didn't follow the Flames.


Marchessault had just broekn out with a 30 goal season and Reilly Smith is a generally steady player who has outproduced Gallagher more often than not. James Neal was a consistent 20 goal scorer, which is more than Shaw or Danault claim. Haula and Eakin are both speedy centers who are not great scorers, but that's about the same or better than Danault.

William Karlsson is the real breakout star, he's basically their Pacioretty. David Perron is also playing above his normal career production, but Drouin has really not proven he's more than a Perron clone.
 

ArtPeur

Have a Snickers
Mar 30, 2010
13,517
11,340
Shaw isn't so bad when your forwards are Panarin/Saad, Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. He's a nice complimentary asset to those guys. When half of them were gone, Chicago wasn't as great in the playoffs, with or without Shaw. (that's a fact)
 
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LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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Quebec City, Canada
You clearly don't understand what a guy like Shaw brings to the table so there's no point in this discussion. Cheers.

What Shaw brings is no use unless you are ready to contend. We had to add scoring before getting a guy like Shaw. Paying Shaw 4 millions and wasting 2 good picks on him is not productive when your goal should be to add scoring.

Shaw isn't so bad when your forwards are Panarin/Saad, Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. He's a nice complimentary asset to those guys. When half of them were gone, Chicago wasn't as great in the playoffs, with or without Shaw. (that's a fact)

Exactly.
 
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Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
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Montreal
What Shaw brings is no use unless you are ready to contend. We had to add scoring before getting a guy like Shaw. Paying Shaw 4 millions and wasting 2 good picks on him is not productive if your goal is to add scoring.
The guys that were supposed to score are not scoring while Shaw is doing exactly what he was brought in for, somehow you chose to blame Shaw...
 

CauZuki

Registered User
Feb 19, 2008
12,289
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Shaw isn't so bad when your forwards are Panarin/Saad, Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, etc. He's a nice complimentary asset to those guys. When half of them were gone, Chicago wasn't as great in the playoffs, with or without Shaw. (that's a fact)

They always found a way to win though, gotta respect them for that. Some around here seem to forget that winning it all is the main goal.
 

isthatso

Registered User
Jan 20, 2017
230
265
Actually, if he did things right, we'd still have a great team, close to contention, but that too is simple, obvious and logical and you still don't get it.

But don't worry Jaffy, one day you might catch up to the rest of us.

Pac
Radu
Chucky
Gally
Danault
Lekh
Eller
Plek
Byron

Subban
Markov
Sergachev
Petry
Emelin

Price

That team gets over Boston and Toronto and gives Tampa a run for the div title.

That team won nothing......but don't worry, Radulov was gonna miraculousy start scoring at a point per game pace cause that's what happens here in Montreal......Eller has won nothing with Washington, everyone hated Emelin, and you can't fit Markov, Radulov and Subban's (extra 2m$) salary under the cap.....maybe one day, you'll catch up to the rest of us who know there's a cap to work with.

Ah, I see you removed Emelin.....from your original post.....the Cap, consider the Cap

The Cap? 8.5M to spare, or one year of Markov that we all know he was open to. Next year, 4M goes to Price, cap goes up to 80M, Plek leaves 6M...

Screen Shot 2018 01 25 at 7 33 16 PM

For those too lazy to click:

Pac - Chucky - Radulov
Lehk - Danault - Gally
Hudon - Plek - Shaw
DLR - Eller - Byron

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Petry
Sergachev - Benn

Price
Niemi

3.5M (not including Mete if Markov is back on except as extra) to spare after paying Markov 6M. Keep an extra attacker and D, less than 1 mil. each.

dyK1Rw
 
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LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,281
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Quebec City, Canada
The guys that were supposed to score are not scoring while Shaw is doing exactly what he was brought in for, somehow you chose to blame Shaw...
We have Patch, AG and Drouin and that's about it. Gallagher is giving you what you can expect from him. But Byron is producing at a higher than expected rate so he's covering for a part of it. We are missing pieces in this top 6. I don't understand why it's even a discussion. Those pieces should have been added before Shaw. Two good 2nd round picks is a good asset you can use to up the value in a trade. Could have been added to Subban to help Edmonton make a decision.
 

ArtPeur

Have a Snickers
Mar 30, 2010
13,517
11,340
Oh, while I'm at it, I'll compare Shaw to Prust. Both were signed long-term by Bergevin. Prust was done by year 3 and couldn't keep playing like he did. Shaw might be done by year 3 or 4 as well...
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,281
17,382
Quebec City, Canada
They always found a way to win though, gotta respect them for that. Some around here seem to forget that winning it all is the main goal.

They rode on their past success for a year or two which is not unusual. Detroit did the same. But make no mistake if Chicago doesn't bring help for Keith and Seabrook they are not heading in the right direction. Both are getting older and they'll need help soon if not now.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
The guys that were supposed to score are not scoring while Shaw is doing exactly what he was brought in for, somehow you chose to blame Shaw...

I blame the braindead GM for trading for him in the first place.

I have many reasons to dislike Shaw, and his poor play and bad penalties are only a small part.
 

Wats

Error 520
Mar 8, 2006
41,962
6,616
Radulov is now leaching off Benn and Seguin by having more points. Really goes to prove how real talent can't even succeed in MB team building. He was the one player after Subban that really showed combo of heart and talent. Now...?
 

mariolemieux66

Registered User
Sep 17, 2008
16,315
7,252
Vancouver
How many players did Bergevin acquire through a trade of sign as a free agent that played their last NHL season in Montreal?
Nice scouting team!

Through trades:
Georges Parros
Davis Drewiske
Mike Weaver
Sergei Gonchar
Bryan Allen
Brian Flynn
Lucas Lessio
Victor Bartley
John Scott
Tomas Fleischmann
Nikita Nesterov
Andreas Martinsen
Steve Ott
Dwight King
Ben Scrivens
Mike Brown


UFAs:
Manny Malhotra
Doug Murray
Colby Armstrong
Alex Semin
Mark Streit
Alex Hemsky



That's a long ass list.

Anyone missing?
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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And how exactly do you measure what you're talking about? Maybe Shaw is doing what he's paid for but some other players on the roster are not?

I mean this is so subjective... You've been on the fence since the beginning, you will probably never embrace this guy.

It has nothing to do with Shaw but everything to do with what the GM chose to do about him. There is nothing "subjective" about anything I've outlined, it's all based on verifiable facts. It's your prerogative if you want to take a different stance, but your methods are pretty obvious by now. You feign ignorance and mild surprise, then you follow up with rhetorical questions and finally deliver a boom in the form of cutting the other individual down for the hell of it.

I've never been "on the fence" about this player. I've remained constant about how he wasn't needed, is a redundant asset, was paid too much to acquire, was granted a generous deal with too much term, is a low scoring third line player on a team that is starved for offence, plays a game that is above his weight class and is now injury-prone and has suffered multiple concussions. I don't need to "embrace" bad deals. This was and continues to be a bad deal whether you like it or not.

How far you are willing to bend over backwards to defend this clueless and incompetent GM is the legend of contortionists.
 
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CauZuki

Registered User
Feb 19, 2008
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Through trades:
Georges Parros
Davis Drewiske
Mike Weaver
Sergei Gonchar
Bryan Allen
Brian Flynn
Lucas Lessio
Victor Bartley
John Scott
Tomas Fleischmann
Nikita Nesterov
Andreas Martinsen
Steve Ott
Dwight King
Ben Scrivens
Mike Brown


UFAs:
Manny Malhotra
Doug Murray
Colby Armstrong
Alex Semin
Mark Streit
Alex Hemsky



That's a long ass list.

Anyone missing?

Radulov (UFA)
Vanek (trade)
Dubnyk (trade)
Petry (trade)
Danault (trade)
Alzner(UFA)
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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I mean theres a reason they offered 2 high seconds. I doubt negotiations started there to be fair.

Maybe another team offered a high 2nd and a low 2nd or a third?

Bergevin shouldn't have been negotiating for that player to begin with. He wasn't needed. Just a redundant asset acquired for all the wrong reasons.

From what was reported at the time, Shaw pretty much got the type of contract from Bergevin, that had been attributed as a demand from his agent. The deal was closed quickly. Just as it was when Drouin was acquired.

When Bergevin loves the player, all caution is thrown to the wind. When he doesn't, you get the type of confrontational negotiations, the brash and uncouth demeanor and ultimatums, that we've seen with the likes of Subban, Markov and Radulov.
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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I'll take good picks in a good draft before a 30 points guy any day of the week without any hesitation at all. No question.

And before you tell me Shaw is a 40 points guy in career he is producing at a pace of 35 points every 82 games.

Actually, there are several posts from him where he was claiming that Shaw is a comparable to Gallagher in terms of offensive production. Of course,
he solely used Gallagher's numbers during his broken hand years and left out the part where Gallagher had not played the same number of games. The lengths he goes to produce strawmen in order to protect his adulation of PurplePants is the stuff of Branch Davidians.
 
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