Marc Bergevin: Real Madrid ne font pas les séries ou va pas au Mondial Edition

[Rosso Scuderia]

If your takeaway from everything I wrote is I'm "discrediting" Eller, then you've really missed my point. Nothing I said discredited him.

I agree Eller is the same player with the same style throughout his career, but I think you'd agree most fans would not have called him a playoff beast based on last year, or 2015. Whatever we may think of it, the term "Playoff beast" refers to goals and assists for forwards. I didn't invent the term, but if we're going to use it let's acknowledge how it's usually used.

That's where our opinions defers.

For me, a playoffs performer is a player that raises/elevates his game to another level.

Some player elevates their game in the playoffs, some are just as effective and some just can't handle the pressure of the playoffs. Eller is in the first category.

Stats are not everything, especially for 3rd center. Stats are also meaningless if taking out of context/role/expectations.

I see you that like to keep the term "beast" because you know nobody in their right mind would call Eller a playoffs beast in every playoffs games he has played in but except Briere and superstars like Crosby and Malkin who can be qualify as playoffs beast.. there aren't many. And by your definition, playoffs beast is only determined by the number of goals and assists you get... of course a 3rd C would never be qualified for that term.

I'm just curious if you think Eller is a playoffs performer, plays the same way as he usually does or is a playoffs choker/underachiever? Of course it has to be based on his role, usage and expectations.

 

[DAChampion]

That's where our opinions defers.

For me, a playoffs performer is a player that raises/elevates his game to another level.

Some player elevates their game in the playoffs, some are just as effective and some just can't handle the pressure of the playoffs. Eller is in the first category.

Stats are not everything, especially for 3rd center. Stats are also meaningless if taking out of context/role/expectations.

I see you that like to keep the term "beast" because you know nobody in their right mind would call Eller a playoffs beast in every playoffs games he has played in but except Briere and superstars like Crosby and Malkin who can be qualify as playoffs beast.. there aren't many. And by your definition, playoffs beast is only determined by the number of goals and assists you get... of course a 3rd C would never be qualified for that term.

I'm just curious if you think Eller is a playoffs performer, plays the same way as he usually does or is a playoffs choker/underachiever? Of course it has to be based on his role, usage and expectations.

It's like this.

Eller starts in the defensive zone against the other team's top line. He carries the puck to the offensive zone. He grinds out and tires out the opposing defense for a little bit. He then makes a beautiful pass to Brandon Prust, but Prust fans on the puck.

Is that still being a playoff warrior?

Yes to anybody who watches the games, no to anybody who just looks at stats.

 

[Lshap]

That's where our opinions defers.

For me, a playoffs performer is a player that raises/elevates his game to another level.

Some player elevates their game in the playoffs, some are just as effective and some just can't handle the pressure of the playoffs. Eller is in the first category.

Stats are not everything, especially for 3rd center. Stats are also meaningless if taking out of context/role/expectations.

I see you that like to keep the term "beast" because you know nobody in their right mind would call Eller a playoffs beast in every playoffs games he has played in but except Briere and superstars like Crosby and Malkin who can be qualify as playoffs beast.. there aren't many. And by your definition, playoffs beast is only determined by the number of goals and assists you get... of course a 3rd C would never be qualified for that term.

I'm just curious if you think Eller is a playoffs performer, plays the same way as he usually does or is a playoffs choker/underachiever? Of course it has to be based on his role, usage and expectations.

I wasn't the one who used the term 'beast'. Others started using it with Eller, and in fact they DID call him one in every playoffs. I wasn't the one who brought it up. I agree with you it's ridiculous to call him a playoff beast his entire career -- others stubbornly disagree.

Determining 'playoff beasts' by goals and assists isn't my invention. Look up any thread on the subject and that's how it's judged. As I said, if people are going to keep throwing out that term, respect the popular meaning.

And yes, Eller is a playoff performer. In the years he produced less points he was still a strong and effective #3C. I've never said otherwise. Aside from the semantics of that 'beast' term I think we see things about the same.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Beast is the perfect word for his playoff performance. Watch games . Watch the defensive zone draws. Watch the zone entries. Watch the offensive zone puck possesion. That's just eye test . Advance stats just make his playoff performances more impressive. Yeah he's a third liner but he's a beast in the playoffs. Also not 2 shabby for a 3rd liner to have 18 in 24 a Stanley cup game winner and being on the ice in the last 30 seconds of the game for a draw in washingtons zone.

 

[justafan22]

Beast is the perfect word for his playoff performance. Watch games . Watch the defensive zone draws. Watch the zone entries. Watch the offensive zone puck possesion. That's just eye test . Advance stats just make his playoff performances more impressive. Yeah he's a third liner but he's a beast in the playoffs.

But andrew shaw brings dat Chicago culture though

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

But andrew shaw brings dat Chicago culture though

But dude wE DiDInT tRaDe ElLer foR sHaw hurr durr

 

[ArtPeur]

But andrew shaw brings dat Chicago culture though

Looking at the standings and last year's playoffs, we really have a nice Chicago culture

 

[Whitesnake]

For the record, just before people say that we are always against moves AFTER it's made....if we go after Jack Johnson we are dumb. If we go after Milan Lucic we are worst than Houle.

 

[lo striver]

For the record, just before people say that we are always against moves AFTER it's made....if we go after Jack Johnson we are dumb. If we go after Milan Lucic we are worst than Houle.

Bergevin can actually go after both. He is that good.

 

[Lshap]

For the record, just before people say that we are always against moves AFTER it's made....if we go after Jack Johnson we are dumb. If we go after Milan Lucic we are worst than Houle.

Really doubt we go that route. But I agree it would be dumb.

 

[Lshap]

But andrew shaw brings dat Chicago culture though

Andrew Shaw was considered a playoff beast during Chicago's Cup runs. Put up points, ton of heart, ideal 3rd liner, etc.

 

[justafan22]

Bergevin can actually go after both. He is that good.

He offered lucic more money 2 years ago

The Canadiens offered Milan Lucic more than the $42 million the Edmonton Oilers will pay him

 

[Captain Mountain]

Really doubt we go that route. But I agree it would be dumb.

I really doubted Montreal would move Subban and Sergachev or signed Alzner. I'm finished doubting the depths Bergevin can sink to.

If he makes good moves, then great. But he's lost the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Lshap]

I really doubted Montreal would move Subban and Sergachev or signed Alzner. I'm finished doubting the depths Bergevin can sink to.

If he makes good moves, then great. But he's lost the benefit of the doubt.

Isn't that a good thing? Lowered expectations are much easier to meet.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Isn't that a good thing? Lowered expectations are much easier to meet.

I guess. But with Bergevin its less building from the ground up related lowered expectations and more:

1) apathy regarding the state of the team; and
2) hoping he doesn't screw up in obvious ways again.

Neither of which is very good. Even in smaller markets with smaller fanbases, people don't really get excited when their team avoids obviously bad moves. The fact that people will look to the offseason as a win if Bergevin doesn't throw stupid money and JJ or other overrated UFAs is pretty depressing.

 

[Cobra Commander]

 

[waffledave]

For the record, just before people say that we are always against moves AFTER it's made....if we go after Jack Johnson we are dumb. If we go after Milan Lucic we are worst than Houle.

Let's expand on that:

- signing JJ is a brutal mistake
- re-signing Pacioretty to anything more than $6m per is a brutal mistake
- trading for Lucic is a brutal mistake
- going off the board with the 3OA is a brutal mistake
- drafting Dobson over Hughes or Zadina will be a brutal mistake
- trading Galchenyuk will be a brutal mistake
- re-signing Danault to anything in the 6 year range, over $4m per will be a brutal mistake

100% guaranteed.

 

[PuckSeparator]

Beast is the perfect word for his playoff performance. Watch games . Watch the defensive zone draws. Watch the zone entries. Watch the offensive zone puck possesion. That's just eye test . Advance stats just make his playoff performances more impressive. Yeah he's a third liner but he's a beast in the playoffs. Also not 2 shabby for a 3rd liner to have 18 in 24 a Stanley cup game winner and being on the ice in the last 30 seconds of the game for a draw in washingtons zone.

Eller RS PT%: 0.36
Eller PS PT%: 0.55

And that includes years when he was shafted by usage here in MTL. Not too shabby for discarded MTL trash. I guess the silver lining is that he wouldn't see the POs here anyways so his raise in production would be pointless to our team in any case.

 

[Lshap]

The serious answer is that this summer scares the crap out of me. What happens at the draft and immediately after will define what this team is and where it's headed. How will our draft picks be prioritized -- as seeds of a stronger future, or as pawn-shop exchanges for a quick fix? Is it possible for Bergevin to learn from previous mistakes and impose a careful, patient plan on our OCD fan base?

Guess we'll all find out together whether this dude is capable of learning & growing.

 

[Lshap]

I guess. But with Bergevin its less building from the ground up related lowered expectations and more:

1) apathy regarding the state of the team; and
2) hoping he doesn't screw up in obvious ways again.

Neither of which is very good. Even in smaller markets with smaller fanbases, people don't really get excited when their team avoids obviously bad moves. The fact that people will look to the offseason as a win if Bergevin doesn't throw stupid money and JJ or other overrated UFAs is pretty depressing.

I was kidding, but yeah... I embraced apathy to prevent becoming depressed. For what it's worth, this is nothing new. I've seen more Cup-winners and trash-rosters than I can count in the decades I've watched. It always cycles around.

 

[MaxDummy]

Andrew Shaw was considered a playoff beast during Chicago's Cup runs. Put up points, ton of heart, ideal 3rd liner, etc.

Except Shaw played with Kaner and was on the first wave of the PP with Toews, Hossa, Kane and Keith. I'll let you make your own conclusions on who made who produce..

 

[Captain Mountain]

I was kidding, but yeah... I embraced apathy to prevent becoming depressed. For what it's worth, this is nothing new. I've seen more Cup-winners and trash-rosters than I can count in the decades I've watched. It always cycles around.

The question is always the length of the cycles though. I live in the GTA and the Leafs were in the dumpster for a decade. And it always hurts considering how a lot of the damage is self inflicted.

 

[Price is Wright]

For the record, just before people say that we are always against moves AFTER it's made....if we go after Jack Johnson we are dumb. If we go after Milan Lucic we are worst than Houle.

I was good with the Drouin/Sergachev until I found out we were going to provide a second round pick insurance to Tampa if Sergachev didn't play half a season. And then I was even more against it that our crack team of pro scouting decided he could become a number one centre in one summer. But if it was just Drouin for Sergachev, Drouin played wing? I would have defended it. Even if it looks ugly now, I still would have stood by it, right or wrong.

The circumstances *after* a trade matter. If you acquired Connor McDavid but then traded every skilled player you had so he's playing with Andrew Shaw and Jacob de la Rose as his top wingers, it doesn't matter much anymore.

 

[Lshap]

Except Shaw played with Kaner and was on the first wave of the PP with Toews, Hossa, Kane and Keith. I'll let you make your own conclusions on who made who produce..

Shaw, like Eller, was a primary 3rd-liner who was bumped up on occasion. Obviously, a C has a more valuable role. Both produced during their respective Cup runs. Both fan bases loved them. Good for them.

 

[Kriss E]

I was good with the Drouin/Sergachev until I found out we were going to provide a second round pick insurance to Tampa if Sergachev didn't play half a season. And then I was even more against it that our crack team of pro scouting decided he could become a number one centre in one summer. But if it was just Drouin for Sergachev, Drouin played wing? I would have defended it. Even if it looks ugly now, I still would have stood by it, right or wrong.

The circumstances *after* a trade matter. If you acquired Connor McDavid but then traded every skilled player you had so he's playing with Andrew Shaw and Jacob de la Rose as his top wingers, it doesn't matter much anymore.

Well that's why it's important to have someone with vision and planning.
The Drouin trade for Sergachev was fine with me in terms of value exchanged. That was assuming we weren't going to just end there or add in scraps like Alzner. When I realized that's all this bozo was going to do, then it made this deal pretty pointless. It became quite bad when the plan was to then move Drouin to center, and Galch back on the wing.

What a f***ing mickey mouse organization.