Marc Bergevin: Real Madrid ne font pas les séries ou va pas au Mondial Edition

What do you want to do with Bergevin?

  • Should be to be fired

  • Be patient

  • Keep him is doing a good job


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habsfan909

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Feb 20, 2018
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Thing is that he is an awful GM but I'd hesitate to call someone I know so little about an idiot or used car salesman lol

Has nothing to do with knowing him. Calling someone a 'used car salesman' is an expression that fits Marc to a tee. When someone constantly uses 1 liners to make themselves seem smarter than you that fits the bill. When they keep changing their mantra or moto as if they have now figured it out, that is a used car salesman. All flash and no substance.

"hate to lose, rather than like winning" - that is the nonsense a used car salesman says to make themselves sound smart.

First the team lacks "karakter"... now the problem is the "attitood"...

Used car salesman.

The list goes on and on...
 

ArtPeur

Have a Snickers
Mar 30, 2010
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Has nothing to do with knowing him. Calling someone a 'used car salesman' is an expression that fits Marc to a tee. When someone constantly uses 1 liners to make themselves seem smarter than you that fits the bill. When they keep changing their mantra or moto as if they have now figured it out, that is a used car salesman. All flash and no substance.

"hate to lose, rather than like winning" - that is the nonsense a used car salesman says to make themselves sound smart.

First the team lacks "karakter"... now the problem is the "attitood"...

Used car salesman.

The list goes on and on...

Disaster Artist
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
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Luckily, Bergevin is now MINO (Manager in name only) and thus we have better things to look forward to.

That's wishful thinking.

Hiring Ducharme & Bouchard were good moves, but they were also fairly obvious and were pushed heavily by the media. It's very much in character for Bergevin to hire them, just like he hired an analytics guy and everyone thought that meant Bergevin had learnt from his "character" mistakes.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
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That's wishful thinking.

Hiring Ducharme & Bouchard were good moves, but they were also fairly obvious and were pushed heavily by the media. It's very much in character for Bergevin to hire them, just like he hired an analytics guy and everyone thought that meant Bergevin had learnt from his "character" mistakes.

It's not at all in character of Bergevin to either fire his friends or hire people smarter than him.

The analytics guy had an irrelevant part-time job.
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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" I like players that hate to lose more than they want to win" --MB when he acquired Shaw. LOL

If Bergevin was a used car sales man, he better have a third language that isn’t English or French because he would have a heck of time selling anything speaking the way he does.
 
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Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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It's not at all in character of Bergevin to either fire his friends or hire people smarter than him.

The analytics guy had an irrelevant part-time job.

Well he fired Therrien. So it shouldn't be a shock that he'd fire Sly. In both cases the media had at least somewhat turned on them and were also starting to call for Bergevin's head. And sacrificing someone (Even a friend) to appease the media is very much in character.

The level of influence Ducharme & Bouchard have is still very much unknown. I doubt either of them will have much influence, which is partly normal given their positions. I mean it's not like we think Kirk Muller has influence do we?
 
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Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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Facts say otherwise, Eller already is a game winning goal scoring Stanley Cup playoff beast.
Obviously, he was a playoff-beast this year. But he obviously wasn't in 2017 or 2015. Then he was in 2014. So he clearly is... then he clearly isn't. Those are the facts.
 
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DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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But he obviously wasn't in 2017 or 2015.

We've already refuted that point many times over. Eller played very well and dominated the play in 2015 and 2017, he just had lower puck luck. Those are the facts.

Separately, Eller had 5 points in 13 playoff games last year. For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers even if you only look at numbers. The Habs' first liners can't match that performance going up against weak teams.

Did you even watch any of Washington's playoff games last year?
 

Lshap

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We've already refuted that point many times over. Eller played very well and dominated the play in 2015 and 2017, he just had lower puck luck. Those are the facts.

Separately, Eller had 5 points in 13 playoff games last year. For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers even if you only look at numbers. The Habs' first liners can't match that performance going up against weak teams.

Did you even watch any of Washington's playoff games last year?
Sorry, but you can't refute facts. "Playoff beast" does not mean "good numbers", and there was nothing whatsoever dominant about Eller in 2017 or 2015. That is pure imagination with nothing to back it up.

Again, Eller was clearly dominant this playoffs. The facts say he was not just top-six, but somewhere between a #1 and #2C during this playoff run. However, those same facts say he was a #3c depth player during the 2015 and 2017 playoffs. There is simply no valid way to dispute this. And why would it be necessary to try disputing it?
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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Sorry, but you can't refute facts.

Regardless, you keep denying them. Hold on to the fantasy that Eller was mediocre in 2015 and 2017 if it makes you feel good. I watched Montreal's games in 2015 and Washington's games in 2017, so I'll stick with reality. Eller controlled the play, he just didn't have puck luck. This has been diligently explained to you, multiple times, by multiple posters.

You consistently choose to deny reality. You're much more interested in grinding out other posters by repeating the same false posts over and over again in order to establish an imaginary and irrelevant dominance, than to acknowledge both errors and successes in order to achieve a mutually beneficial pursuit of greater understanding, knowledge, and predictive power. To me, your posting style goes against the very purpose of a discussion forum. I will not bother discussing these issues with your further.
 

Lshap

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Regardless, you keep denying them. Hold on to the fantasy that Eller was mediocre in 2015 and 2017 if it makes you feel good. I watched Montreal's games in 2015 and Washington's games in 2017, so I'll stick with reality. Eller controlled the play, he just didn't have puck luck. This has been diligently explained to you, multiple times, by multiple posters.

You consistently choose to deny reality. You're much more interested in grinding out other posters by repeating the same false posts over and over again in order to establish an imaginary and irrelevant dominance, than to acknowledge both errors and successes in order to achieve a mutually beneficial pursuit of greater understanding, knowledge, and predictive power. To me, your posting style goes against the very purpose of a discussion forum. I will not bother discussing these issues with your further.
Here's a challenge: Start a poll asking if Eller's 2015 and 2017 qualify him as a playoff beast.

Of course you won't make that poll, because you already know you won't get the answer you want. Here's your own quote: "For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers". You've admitted he was a #3c with good numbers... and yet you cling to the idea that makes him a playoff beast. Ridiculous.
 

Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
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Here's a challenge: Start a poll asking if Eller's 2015 and 2017 qualify him as a playoff beast.

Of course you won't make that poll, because you already know you won't get the answer you want. Here's your own quote: "For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers". You've admitted he was a #3c with good numbers... and yet you cling to the idea that makes him a playoff beast. Ridiculous.
Yes he was, just go back and look at the playoff threads. Most nights comments like "He was the only one trying" was the norm. Just because he wasn't putting up points with scrubs as linemates doesn't mean he wasn't playing well. Hitting, key faceoffs, puck possession, d zone coverage.

He was our ONLY centerman than knew what behind our hash marks even looked like. Pleks and DD spent their entire time closer to the blue line waiting for passes. We seen how well that strategy works when you trade away all your dmen with good passing skills. I am also done on this one. I can't keep trying to convince you since it seems like you have a completely statistical recollection of those seasons :surrender
 

Lshap

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Yes he was, just go back and look at the playoff threads. Most nights comments like "He was the only one trying" was the norm. Just because he wasn't putting up points with scrubs as linemates doesn't mean he wasn't playing well. Hitting, key faceoffs, puck possession, d zone coverage.

He was our ONLY centerman than knew what behind our hash marks even looked like. Pleks and DD spent their entire time closer to the blue line waiting for passes. We seen how well that strategy works when you trade away all your dmen with good passing skills. I am also done on this one. I can't keep trying to convince you since it seems like you have a completely statistical recollection of those seasons :surrender
Hey man, I don't know how many times I can compliment Eller without getting zinged! ;)

I agree completely with what @DAChampion said: "For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers" That's 100% accurate. But to me and I suspect the vast majority of hockey fans, "3rd liner with good numbers" isn't really what we mean when we talk about "Playoff beasts". We expect more than solid/responsible/effort -- we associate playoff beast with high level production. Briere was a playoff-beast because he produced; Subban is a playoff beast for the same reason. Whenever we talk playoff-beasts, the numbers are there. 2015 and 2017 Eller didn't have anywhere close to those numbers, and nowhere close to his own 2018 numbers. I'd guess even he'd agree he played at a different level this past playoffs, so why would we lump those very different playoffs under the same title?

Would it make everyone happy if I called Eller a "Lesser-beast" in his previous playoffs?
 

Rosso Scuderia

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Jun 30, 2012
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Here's a challenge: Start a poll asking if Eller's 2015 and 2017 qualify him as a playoff beast.

Of course you won't make that poll, because you already know you won't get the answer you want. Here's your own quote: "For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers". You've admitted he was a #3c with good numbers... and yet you cling to the idea that makes him a playoff beast. Ridiculous.

Honest question. Do you actually remember that 2015 playoffs? Do you remember how Eller played... especially compared to his teammates. Him and Gallagher were the only forwards that had a good playoffs. Eller was by far our best center for a 2nd straight year. He didn't produce much because Prust couldn't score to save his life.

I really wish that we could re-watch those games because a lot of people, like you, only use his stats, to discredit his performance because in reality, he was indeed great. Since we don't have that, here's a good idea about Eller's game from the GDT's we had back then. Let me remind you that Eller had 3 pts, Plekanec had 4 and DD had 3... difference is that Eller played on the third line with no real PP oppotunites, with Prust as a winger and 60% dZone starts.
Game 6 against the Sens.
-You other slackers on the Habs watch Eller, this is how it is done in the playoffs!
-Eller is a BEAST
-Eller should really be our 1C playoffs show it 2 years in a row now
-Eller showing MT why he should play much more.
-Eller came to play wow
-Lars Eller you ****ing tank.
-Eller essentially becomes a power forward in the playoffs.
-Eller beasting it. Get rid of DD right now.
-Eller in beast mode!

Game 1 against Bolts
-Eller is a horse
-Eller, Eller, Eller tank mode. Can't stop him.
-Eller is in the game. Next PP we get he should play 2nd unit, Despite Chuckies PM, still think he should get shifts with Eller .
-Eller keeps making great passes with nobody to finish.
-Eller is so good, I can't believe we don't use him on the top 6.
-Why is Eller so incredible come playoff time?
-He's been our best forward for a while now - with the exception of Max.

Game 2 he got injured so not much talk about him except the people who were very upset that Eller is hurt so it must means he does something right.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/search.php?searchid=33394157&pp=25&page=2

Game 3
-It's so sad watching Eller playing so well, but has to play with guys who struggle to score.
-Would like to see Eller line up with Patch and Gally.
-Eller is too good
-Considering he now has to carry he defense partner along with the offence and still make great defensive plays, I think he has been one of the best Habs
-They all ****ing suck except Eller and Petry
-Give eller some offensive wingers you muppet

Game 4
-Hot damn, Eller. What a beast play
-Eller is playing one heck of a game.
-really nice play by Eller's whole line on that...

Game 5
-Eller is a warrior
-Good net presence by Eller
-Maddening that eller gets no pp time
-Good shift by Eller there
-i wish eller had one of the kids as a winger instead of prust and you know who

Game 6
-Eller and Galllagher are really our only forwards that can do anything
-Gallagher and Eller the only forwards to show up..
-Put Eller on the first line please.
-What a play by Eller.
-What a ****ing play by Eller.
-Great play by Eller too bad Prust couldn't do anything with it.
-Eller did everything and puck goes straight to Prust
-Eller proving once again he's the only one who deserves offensive minutes in the playoffs.
-Eller's been arguably our best forward
-Honestly, Eller and Plekanec should shift roles right now. Relegate Plekanec to the checking line center role and give Eller an offensive chance.
TBH, I don't care about you don't call him a playoffs beast or not but what bothers me is that people say that Eller only had 2 good playoffs.. so it doesn't mean he's good in the playoffs. For those who really followed his game, he was good in every playoffs he has played in, including 2015 and 2017 even if the production was not top 6.

A 3rd line player that don't play on the PP, or with offensive wingers, can be great in the roles despite the lack of production. They have a different role than those top6 players.

There's a context in stats, especially for bottom 6 players. Eller playoffs stats is GREAT for a 3rd C. One of the, if not the best in the league. Yet we have people here saying that how come we call Plekanec a playoffs choker and Eller a playoffs beast but Plekanec has a better PPG rate than Eller. Apples and Oranges. For 3rd C, Eller has beast playoffs numbers. Just compare him league wide and you'll know. Not many 3rd C has a better PPG in the playoffs compared to his regular season.
 
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Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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Honest question. Do you actually remember that 2015 playoffs? Do you remember how Eller played... especially compared to his teammates. Him and Gallagher were the only forwards that had a good playoffs. Eller was by far our best center for a 2nd straight year. He didn't produce much because Prust couldn't score to save his life.

I really wish that we could re-watch those games because a lot of people, like you, only use his stats, to discredit his performance because in reality, he was indeed great. Since we don't have that, here's a good idea about Eller's game from the GDT's we had back then. Let me remind you that Eller had 3 pts, Plekanec had 4 and DD had 3... difference is that Eller played on the third line with no real PP oppotunites, with Prust as a winger and 60% dZone starts.
Yes, I remember those playoffs. And in case you hadn't noticed, I've been following Washington since 2012 up to the present, so I've probably seen more of Eller than most fans here. My evaluation of him is based on facts and observation.

Wanna have a discussion about Eller? Let's discuss his skills, qualities, and limits. We have eight years of information to look at. I've mentioned his skills and qualities plenty of times. But if we can't bring up an honest assessment of his limits without triggering a series of emotional knee-jerk defences -- which is what this subject devolved to last week -- then it's a waste of time.

Here's my honest question to you: Do you think Eller's 2015 and 2017 playoffs qualify him as a playoff beast, in the way that term is usually used? That's what we're hung up on, and I really don't get it. How can you look at his legit 2018 playoff-beast run and put 2015 and 2017 in the same category?
 
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Rosso Scuderia

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Jun 30, 2012
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Yes, I remember those playoffs. And in case you hadn't noticed, I've been following Washington since 2012 up to the present, so I've probably seen more of Eller than most fans here. My evaluation of him is based on facts and observation.

Wanna have a discussion about Eller? Let's discuss his skills, qualities, and limits. We have eight years of information to look at. I've mentioned his skills and qualities plenty of times. But if we can't bring up an honest assessment of his limits without triggering a series of emotional knee-jerk defences -- which is what this subject devolved to last week -- then it's a waste of time.

Here's my honest question to you: Do you think Eller's 2015 and 2017 playoffs qualify him as a playoff beast, in the way that term is usually used? That's what we're hung up on, and I really don't get it. How can you look at his legit 2018 playoff-beast run and put 2015 and 2017 in the same category?

I think it's silly that you have to pick years to discredit a player as a whole. That's just cherry picking stats of 2 years where his stats are not beastly but it doesn't mean that he didn't elevate his game.

For myself, Eller is a playoffs performer.. based on every playoffs he's played in. His game changes. He's much more effective.. and productive. In both 2015 and 2017 he elevates his games compared to his regular season.. That's why I consider him a playoffs performer.. In the regular season, there's a lot of better 3rd C.. but in the playoffs there aren't many that we can say that has performed better than Eller as a 3rd C in the last 5-6 years.

And to be honest with you, I personally think Eller in 2015 and 2017 played the same way as he did in 2014 and 2018. Quality of teammates, shot %, offensive opportunities improved his production in those years but his game in general is basically the same.. I think it's very dishonest that you called out those 2 years that his production is not top 6 level to say that he wasn't as good as the other years. I see the same Eller in every playoffs he played in. You can't expect him to produce always at the same rate, in every playoffs, that's very difficult for a 3rd line player.

Also we are not talking about Eller the player here, so no need to discuss about his skill, qualities and limits. We all know what they are. We are talking, at least I am, about Eller's playoffs performance which has been very steady since 2013.

And not that I stop using the term "beast". I rather say playoffs performer.

Giroux is a playoffs performer but he wasn't beast in 2016 and 2018 but it doesn't change the fact that for me, he IS a playoffs performer.. I guess he's not for you because of those years.
 
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nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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I think the use of "idiot" for Bergevin is just a metaphor for perpetually incompetent and small minded. Idiot is less exact but requires much less typing. :sarcasm:

Not to be sarcastic but I honestly do consider him an idiot by definition. Some of the stuff he does, the way he talks, and the way he thinks he’s fooling people when he does talk leads me to believe he is an ignorant idiot.
 

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
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Obviously, he was a playoff-beast this year. But he obviously wasn't in 2017 or 2015. Then he was in 2014. So he clearly is... then he clearly isn't. Those are the facts.

We've already refuted that point many times over. Eller played very well and dominated the play in 2015 and 2017, he just had lower puck luck. Those are the facts.

Separately, Eller had 5 points in 13 playoff games last year. For a third liner going up against strong teams, those are good numbers even if you only look at numbers. The Habs' first liners can't match that performance going up against weak teams.

Did you even watch any of Washington's playoff games last year?

Scoring-wise, there’s no denying he had trouble racking up points in 2015 and 2017 and I suppose if production from a third liner is the sole criteria in measuring his value as a playoff-beast, then sure, he wasn’t having a great playoffs those two years.

But let’s just look at facts:
2015: 54.6% even-strength Corsi For, which is near ELITE, especially when you consider over 67% of his starts were in the dZone. This isn’t a ~55% CF% of a sheltered player. He had to do heavy lifting. To DAC’s point, Eller had bad puck luck and his PDO of under 100 proves that.

2017: He had a CRAZY 56.9% CF%, but he did have more oZone starts (56.5%) which helps. However, his PDO was again sub-100.

So, for both years, his line essentially dictated play when they were on the ice. This is further supported by his Fenwick numbers both years. His low PDO though indicates despite controlling play, they weren’t able to give the scorekeeper much to do.

Here’s the funny thing though, statistically, compared to 2015 and last year, his CF% was lower this year. However, his PDO was a lot higher which is reflected in the increased production. Granted, he had a lot more ice time, but he’s been as strong this year as he has in the past.
 

Lshap

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Scoring-wise, there’s no denying he had trouble racking up points in 2015 and 2017 and I suppose if production from a third liner is the sole criteria in measuring his value as a playoff-beast, then sure, he wasn’t having a great playoffs those two years.

But let’s just look at facts:
2015: 54.6% even-strength Corsi For, which is near ELITE, especially when you consider over 67% of his starts were in the dZone. This isn’t a ~55% CF% of a sheltered player. He had to do heavy lifting. To DAC’s point, Eller had bad puck luck and his PDO of under 100 proves that.

2017: He had a CRAZY 56.9% CF%, but he did have more oZone starts (56.5%) which helps. However, his PDO was again sub-100.

So, for both years, his line essentially dictated play when they were on the ice. This is further supported by his Fenwick numbers both years. His low PDO though indicates despite controlling play, they weren’t able to give the scorekeeper much to do.

Here’s the funny thing though, statistically, compared to 2015 and last year, his CF% was lower this year. However, his PDO was a lot higher which is reflected in the increased production. Granted, he had a lot more ice time, but he’s been as strong this year as he has in the past.
Thanks. Appreciate the info.
 

Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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I think it's silly that you have to pick years to discredit a player as a whole. That's just cherry picking stats of 2 years where his stats are not beastly but it doesn't mean that he didn't elevate his game.

For myself, Eller is a playoffs performer.. based on every playoffs he's played in. His game changes. He's much more effective.. and productive. In both 2015 and 2017 he elevates his games compared to his regular season.. That's why I consider him a playoffs performer.. In the regular season, there's a lot of better 3rd C.. but in the playoffs there aren't many that we can say that has performed better than Eller as a 3rd C in the last 5-6 years.

And to be honest with you, I personally think Eller in 2015 and 2017 played the same way as he did in 2014 and 2018. Quality of teammates, shot %, offensive opportunities improved his production in those years but his game in general is basically the same.. I think it's very dishonest that you called out those 2 years that his production is not top 6 level to say that he wasn't as good as the other years. I see the same Eller in every playoffs he played in. You can't expect him to produce always at the same rate, in every playoffs, that's very difficult for a 3rd line player.

Also we are not talking about Eller the player here, so no need to discuss about his skill, qualities and limits. We all know what they are. We are talking, at least I am, about Eller's playoffs performance which has been very steady since 2013.

And not that I stop using the term "beast". I rather say playoffs performer.

Giroux is a playoffs performer but he wasn't beast in 2016 and 2018 but it doesn't change the fact that for me, he IS a playoffs performer.. I guess he's not for you because of those years.
If your takeaway from everything I wrote is I'm "discrediting" Eller, then you've really missed my point. Nothing I said discredited him.

I agree Eller is the same player with the same style throughout his career, but I think you'd agree most fans would not have called him a playoff beast based on last year, or 2015. Whatever we may think of it, the term "Playoff beast" refers to goals and assists for forwards. I didn't invent the term, but if we're going to use it let's acknowledge how it's usually used.
 

Cobra Commander

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Sep 30, 2017
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bergevin-940.jpg


We need better Attittudes!

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And most importantly better hot dogs Marc.

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BDRLQPQCUAAJ1v1.jpg

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