Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

[Habs Halifax]

You defended lolzner until the day he cleared waivers.

Gauthier’s worst move was probably still better than MB’s top5 worst. PG was a far superior GM.

Good one. You made me laugh today

 

[Harry22]

To be honest, comparing Gainey to Bergevin is so stupid. We're in 2019 and Gainey stepped down 9 years ago. This is Bergevin's team now and he has missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 seasons. He had a decent summer last year and what this season showed is we have more talent up front that we thought. He needs another great summer and make good use of that cap space to get this team back in the playoffs. If he doesn't, it deserves to be lights out for him.

If we judge/compare our current GM based on the failures of our previous GM's then no wonder why this franchise is stuck in mediocrity.

 

[Harry22]

Also to everyone protecting Bergevin and saying he is amassing great prospects bla bla. Bottom line is the Habs missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons and it is very easy to fall into the complacency zone of missing the playoffs. Ask Buffalo or Edmonton how great it is to amass prospects and continually miss the playoffs.

 

[Miller Time]

Houle and Gauthier should not be in the same sentence as Gainey or Bergevin.

Bergevin's biggest bone head move is signing Alzner and not willing to overpay by $1M AAV to keep Radulov. Gainey's bone head move is trading for Gomez which is one of the worse trades in our franchise history. Bergevin is guilty of trading Subban who was a popular player for Weber and getting 4 years older. After 3 seasons, this trade is still close value for both teams. Time will tell if this gets one sided but for now, it's not a bad trade.

i still don't quite get this obsession with comparing "worst moves" as the evaluation tool... makes no sense. A GM's job is a complex interplay of trades, UFA signings, drafting, extensions, coaching & hockey personnel decisions, public/media relations, budget management et.

Pointing to any one or two moves and using that as the measuring stick is both silly and useless. On the whole, it's a matter of how they manage the organizations hockey assets.

Gainey, for all his mistakes, did a decent job, arguably better than the average. Houle and Gauthier were both mediocre or worse, Bergevin most certainly falls in that category. His terrible coaching decisions, extension decisions, bargainbin emphasis and misses in major asset decisions (PK, Sergachev, Radulov, Alzner, Markov) all added up to guiding a strong core that was a few moves away from being a legit contender, to missing the playoffs in 3/4 years and 1 playoff series win in 5 years... this despite full cap spending ability and among the league best in hockey ops spending capacity.

Bergevin has been a complete failure heading into his 8th!!! offseason. That's all there really is to it.

 

[Miller Time]

Also to everyone protecting Bergevin and saying he is amassing great prospects bla bla. Bottom line is the Habs missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons and it is very easy to fall into the complacency zone of missing the playoffs. Ask Buffalo or Edmonton how great it is to amass prospects and continually miss the playoffs.

and this "amassing great prospects" notion is pretty far fetched...

When you pick 3rd overall because you've run a strong roster into the ground, you get high picks... that's not a reflection of being a good GM (especially when the basement finish was not intentional in the least).

When you trade away a top 5 LW signed for a steal of a deal, getting at least 1 quality prospect is the bare minimum... again, not any kind of GM brilliance (especially considering he didn't manage to get a 1st round pick in the process).


and considering we just saw two of his initial top prospects amassed (Scherbak & DLR) gone through waivers, and from his first 4 drafts in total (which included a top-3 lottery draft year, 4 1sts & 5 2nds) all that we have to show for it is
2 NHLers: Domi (Galch), Lekhonen,
2 borderline NHLers: Juulsen, Hudon
a few players that are longshots to be NHLers: McCarron, Evans, Audette, Lernout

This despite him arriving with a "build through the draft" rhetoric...

i'd say the track record ain't great to bank on the current prospect pool to be significant impacts on the franchise over the next 4 years

 

[Kent Nilsson]

i still don't quite get this obsession with comparing "worst moves" as the evaluation tool... makes no sense. A GM's job is a complex interplay of trades, UFA signings, drafting, extensions, coaching & hockey personnel decisions, public/media relations, budget management et.

Pointing to any one or two moves and using that as the measuring stick is both silly and useless. On the whole, it's a matter of how they manage the organizations hockey assets.

Gainey, for all his mistakes, did a decent job, arguably better than the average. Houle and Gauthier were both mediocre or worse, Bergevin most certainly falls in that category. His terrible coaching decisions, extension decisions, bargainbin emphasis and misses in major asset decisions (PK, Sergachev, Radulov, Alzner, Markov) all added up to guiding a strong core that was a few moves away from being a legit contender, to missing the playoffs in 3/4 years and 1 playoff series win in 5 years... this despite full cap spending ability and among the league best in hockey ops spending capacity.

Bergevin has been a complete failure heading into his 8th!!! offseason. That's all there really is to it.

Bergevin’s level of incompetence has reached the point where the team would be better off if he had never done any move at all. It makes sense to compare the GMs as far as which one did the least damage.

 

[Habs Halifax]

i still don't quite get this obsession with comparing "worst moves" as the evaluation tool... makes no sense. A GM's job is a complex interplay of trades, UFA signings, drafting, extensions, coaching & hockey personnel decisions, public/media relations, budget management et.

Pointing to any one or two moves and using that as the measuring stick is both silly and useless. On the whole, it's a matter of how they manage the organizations hockey assets.

Gainey, for all his mistakes, did a decent job, arguably better than the average. Houle and Gauthier were both mediocre or worse, Bergevin most certainly falls in that category. His terrible coaching decisions, extension decisions, bargainbin emphasis and misses in major asset decisions (PK, Sergachev, Radulov, Alzner, Markov) all added up to guiding a strong core that was a few moves away from being a legit contender, to missing the playoffs in 3/4 years and 1 playoff series win in 5 years... this despite full cap spending ability and among the league best in hockey ops spending capacity.

Bergevin has been a complete failure heading into his 8th!!! offseason. That's all there really is to it.

Dissagree. Bergevin vs Gainey is a valid debate. Bergevin is not in the Houle and Gauthier category. What Bergevin did in the last 12 months to shake the "bad trending GM" status is impressive. This is very rare and hard to do.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin’s level of incompetence has reached the point where the team would be better off if he had never done any move at all. It makes sense to compare the GMs as far as which one did the least damage.

You have not shown anything to prove your incompetence opinion. You ignore the good moves and inflate anything you can find to try to prove incompetence (it's coming... I know lol). It does make sense to look at the worse moves. Why? Cause most give respect to Gainey but ignore that he made one of the worse trades in franchise history.

I talk about both positives and negatives. You ignore the positives and blow up the negatives. And you think you are being reasonable. What a joke!

 

[Harry22]

You have not shown anything to prove your incompetence opinion. You ignore the good moves and inflate anything you can find to try to prove incompetence. It does make sense to look at the worse moves. Why? Cause most give respect to Gainey but ignore that he made one of the worse trades in franchise history.

I talk about both positives and negatives. You ignore the positives and blow up the negatives. And you think you are being reasonable. What a joke!

It is not a valid debate in 2019. Gainey stepped down 9 years ago and comparing our GM based on the failures of the previous GM is hardly important at this point. Bergevin is entering his 8th off-season and has missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 seasons and at this point it is all we should be talking about until he gets fired.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It is not a valid debate in 2019. Gainey stepped down 9 years ago and comparing our GM based on the failures of the previous GM is hardly important at this point. Bergevin is entering his 8th off-season and has missed the playoffs 3 of the past 4 seasons and at this point it is all we should be talking about until he gets fired.

So Bergevin is on the hook for his mistakes but Gainey is not? Makes sense only in your world cause you will stop at nothing to create reasons to say Bergevin is horrible.

I know it's hard for you non-supporters of Bergevin to give any credit for our team direction today. You keep talking about the past at your convenience but when it goes against you, you say it makes no sense. Hilarious

The Patch, Galchenyuk and acquiring Armia deals are some of best moves we have made in years! Not many GM's can turn around a team like Bergevin did in the last 12 months. Then you say he got us in that position? Well, yeah, when both Price and Weber have long term injuries, it don't end up well but this is Bergevin's fault

Two things that stand out with me with Bergevin's mistakes. Not willing to overpay Radulov to make him stay and signing Alzner. Many respect Gainey but why does he get a pass for making one of the worse trades in franchise history? Weird if you ask me

 

[Kent Nilsson]

You have not shown anything to prove your incompetence opinion. You ignore the good moves and inflate anything you can find to try to prove incompetence (it's coming... I know lol). It does make sense to look at the worse moves. Why? Cause most give respect to Gainey but ignore that he made one of the worse trades in franchise history.

I talk about both positives and negatives. You ignore the positives and blow up the negatives. And you think you are being reasonable. What a joke!

Coming from someone who responds with a Riahanna gif on the same page thats rich.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Coming from someone who responds with a Riahanna gif on the same page thats rich.

I'm not the one who is saying Gauthier made better moves vs Bergevin. I got a laugh and the Riahanna GIF fit. You deserved it. Anyways, keep the hate on. It's entertaining

Lets go for a walk and talk about your "plan". You can take Matta with you on your ride...

 

[Harry22]

So Bergevin is on the hook for his mistakes but Gainey is not? Makes sense only in your world cause you will stop at nothing to create reasons to say Bergevin is horrible.

I know it's hard for you non-supporters of Bergevin to give any credit for our team direction today. You keep talking about the past at your convenience but when it goes against you, you say it makes no sense. Hilarious

The Patch, Galchenyuk and acquiring Armia deals are some of best moves we have made in years! Not many GM's can turn around a team like Bergevin did in the last 12 months. Then you say he got us in that position? Well, yeah, when both Price and Weber have long term injuries, it don't end up well but this is Bergevin's fault

Two things that stand out with me with Bergevin's mistakes. Not willing to overpay Radulov to make him stay and signing Alzner. Many respect Gainey but why does he get a pass for making one of the worse trades in franchise history? Weird if you ask me

It's been 9 years...I guess I should give Gainey a pass for what Houle did in 1999. If you keep comparing GM's with what his predecessor did, you will always be mediocre.

 

[ahmedou]

Unveil me the 2019's NHL General Manager of Year finalists

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's been 9 years...I guess I should give Gainey a pass for what Houle did in 1999. If you keep comparing GM's with what his predecessor did, you will always be mediocre.

After 7 seasons we are where we are. A very young team with a good mix of vets, lots of cap space, and one of the best prospect pools. But wait, this means nothing cause we should of won a cup of be a contender by now. Sorry, It don't work that way.

I know you don't like it but what Bergevin did in the last 12 months to turn things around was not easy. This is not a sign of a incompetent GM

Did you know we have 10 picks in the next draft and this comes after two very good draft years in 2017 and 2018.

 

[Harry22]

After 7 seasons we are where we are. A very young team with a good mix of vets, lots of cap space, and one of the best prospect pools. But wait, this means nothing cause we should of won a cup of be a contender by now. It don't work that way

I am still waiting on his draft picks to have an impact on this team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am still waiting on his draft picks to have an impact on this team.

We all are. The 2012 and 2013 picks were certainly a disappointments but we know now that those were not deep drafts. Do you not like our current situation in terms of future potential?

If Bergevin was fired today, the next GM inherits a pretty solid team. I like our current situation. Still work to be done but we are trending in the right direction.

 

[abo9]

We all are. The 2012 and 2013 picks were certainly a disappointments but we know now that those were not deep drafts. Do you not like our current situation in terms of future potential?

If Bergevin was fired today, the next GM inherits a pretty solid team. I like our current situation. Still work to be done but we are trending in the right direction.

I know in the 2012-2013 period we had very few picks in the first three rounds. Would you know who traded them away? I would give a pass on Bergevin if he did not and had to work with very few picks and a thinned prospect pool then.

But as of now Bergevin do not impress me either. He's taken a team that was a consistently making the trip to the playoffs to a non-playoff team. To me, it also looked like he tried to win in his first years so he was not planning a rebuilt and give me the impression that he was forced into a rebuilt because of his incompetence.

He's made some good moves recently and is very good at finding excellent 3rd-4th liners but at this point we have to trust Timmins and the development team more than ever

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bergevin’s level of incompetence has reached the point where the team would be better off if he had never done any move at all. It makes sense to compare the GMs as far as which one did the least damage.

I'm at the point where I'm going to try to forget the past. It's been rehashed already.

We're stuck with him so all we can do is hope for a good offseason. I think he has to do something bold this year. I think if we miss again he's gone.

But this worries me somewhat because I'm afraid that he'll get mediocre players who are just good enough to get us to 8th. I don't see him really trying to build a winner. I think for him the playoffs will be good enough in his mind.

We'll see. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[Kriss E]

After 7 seasons we are where we are. A very young team with a good mix of vets, lots of cap space, and one of the best prospect pools. But wait, this means nothing cause we should of won a cup of be a contender by now. Sorry, It don't work that way.

Contender or a cup? Lolll...Good one. Most Habs fans would settle with just seeing a semblance of a plan.
Lolllllllll a Cup!!!

I know you don't like it but what Bergevin did in the last 12 months to turn things around was not easy. This is not a sign of a incompetent GM

We went from non playoff team to....non playoff team. Wow! Remarkable! A Statue must be built!

Did you know we have 10 picks in the next draft and this comes after two very good draft years in 2017 and 2018.

Aren't most of those picks in 4th rd+? We really just have one extra 2nd pick in the first 3 rounds no?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I know in the 2012-2013 period we had very few picks in the first three rounds. Would you know who traded them away? I would give a pass on Bergevin if he did not and had to work with very few picks and a thinned prospect pool then.

But as of now Bergevin do not impress me either. He's taken a team that was a consistently making the trip to the playoffs to a non-playoff team. To me, it also looked like he tried to win in his first years so he was not planning a rebuilt and give me the impression that he was forced into a rebuilt because of his incompetence.

He's made some good moves recently and is very good at finding excellent 3rd-4th liners but at this point we have to trust Timmins and the development team more than ever

Go look again (see below for link). We had lots of picks in the 1st 3 rounds of the 2012 and 2013 draft years. It didn't turn out well at all. Some bad picks combined with two bad draft years in terms of talent. Fast forward to today and there is some comparisons to be made (in terms of position of picks and quantity of picks) to the 2017 and 2018 drafts. What we have going for us in the last two drafts is players who are developing well in their draft +1 and +2 years. There is lots to like but we have to wait and see how it turns out. We will know a lot in 12 months... especially when some turning pro this year. Poehling, Brook, Suzuki, Primeau, Teasdale. Romanov will play at least another year in the KHL.

I'm not saying Bergevin is a top 5 NHL GM. I just think he is not as bad as some think he is. I am not in favor of firing him with no pre-determined GM cause who's hiring and doing interviews for the next GM? Molson? Lets find a new President first.

Montreal Canadiens Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Habs Halifax]

Contender or a cup? Lolll...Good one. Most Habs fans would settle with just seeing a semblance of a plan.
Lolllllllll a Cup!!!

We went from non playoff team to....non playoff team. Wow! Remarkable! A Statue must be built!

Aren't most of those picks in 4th rd+? We really just have one extra 2nd pick in the first 3 rounds no?

We do have a plan after our 2018 off season re-set. It's youth movement and a team that looks promising in terms of the future potential. I know, you hate this turnaround cause you wanted him fired. Sorry, we are stuck with him for another season.

There is a thread somewhere on our main board that shows what our actual picks are. It's comical how you are deflating the picks we have in this next draft. Not surprised. You ignore anything positive cause you want him fired so bad it burns.

 

[Kriss E]

We do have a plan after our 2018 off season re-set. It's youth movement and a team that looks promising in terms of the future potential. I know, you hate this turnaround cause you wanted him fired. Sorry, we are stuck with him for another season.

Actually, I said if Bergevin wasn't fired after the previous year, I think he's here to stay, so I've made my peace. The bozo is here to stay and you will try to rationalize 99% of his moves as you have since the beginning. But we all remember, you were on the ''fire him'' wagon too. For some odd reason though you take joy in us not making the POs for a 3rd year in a row and seem to mock people that are upset, tryingt to paint them as irrational...Lolll...Those damn fans who aren't happy with one PO round in 4 years, spoiled brats let me tell ya.

There is a thread somewhere on our main board that shows what our actual picks are. It's comical how you are deflating the picks we have in this next draft. Not surprised. You ignore anything positive cause you want him fired so bad it burns.

How did I deflate the picks? Did I turn a 1st rd pick and turned it into a 4th??...What the hell are you even talking about? lollll

 

[ahmedou]

3/4

 

[Harry22]

The year is 2034, life on earth has been decimated by climate change and Marc Bergevin is still GM of the Montreal Canadiens.