Marc Bergevin: Draft 2020 (XVI)

[Lshap]

Fun fact: our 2019/20 record after 20 games was 11-5-4.

We didn't know it, but we had just begun our first 8-game winless streak and seven games later would plummet from 8th best in the league to 24th.

 

[EXPOS123]

Fun fact: our 2019/20 record after 20 games was 11-5-4.

We didn't know it, but we had just begun our first 8-game winless streak and seven games later would plummet from 8th best in the league to 24th.

After that streak, I still don't understand why Bozovin didn't realize it was a lost cause and trade off any of the assets that still had value at the time (Tatar, Armia, Danault).

Not only would he have gotten back some decent to good pieces, he would have helped boost our draft standing into at least the top 10 in a draft year that was exceptionally good.

Instead, we now have this s***t show with guys having little to no trade value and bottoming out into a top ten pick in a terrible draft year.

Talk about going in circles..

 

[Doc McKenna]

I think the year before we also had a great start. 9-2-1 or something like that. Hot start when everyone is fresh and then mid season slump...its midseason for this year at 20 games....right on time

 

[OldCraig71]

Oh man, what is left to say about MB? We have said it all 5 times over and we are still stuck with him in the same place we have always been. Hello, Apathy my old friend............

 

[Doc McKenna]

Cap hit yes, but last three years weber make 1 million, and the recapture is on nashville.
That is surely an asset that might be worth more then people imagine.... to nashville
As if not mistaken, it is better for them to trade for him and put him on IR instead of having him retire as a hab

I doubt the nhl doesnt make a special exception in this contract, much like a few other bad ones. Most teams arent worrier about the cap floor either..maybe ottawa. Regradless this sounded like a molson move to pinch pennies for jis last few seasons. They figure he would be like Chelios and be a good d man into his 40s...lol not so much

 

[sandviper]

Tanking is no longer a viable strategy given the lottery.

IMO Bergevin has mostly had the right idea since mid-2018, but he may not be able to compensate for the bad decisions made before then. In particular, having one of the worst goalies in the NHL make 10.5 million/year through 2026 is already crippling. Through that time Weber will be making 7.8 million/year as well.

I was being semi-facetious, and just sucking and tanking for the sake of it obviously isn't ideal. I also get there are busts in the top-10, let alone top-3 or even #1, but the point really I was making is we haven't been tanking but we really are spinning our wheels for the past decade. Sure, we've had moments, especially during Price's dominant years, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say the last 5 years haven't been good.

Sure, we've restocked our cupboards and talent-wise, we're better today than 5 years ago, but I'd argue our top players are less so today than they were before. I get players have ebbs and flows and shit happens, but while critics like to point and laugh at perpetual tankers, we haven't been tanking and yet have been a lottery team 3/5 years, and would had been 4/5 if we weren't gifted a play-in spot.

Anyhow, I don't disagree trying to shoot for the 1st overall pick isn't viable. Shooting for 1st overall unintentionally though, I dunno, but I just find it funny in a not so funny way. As others mentioned though, rebuilding strategically should had been in the books a lot earlier.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Oh man, what is left to say about MB? We have said it all 5 times over and we are still stuck with him in the same place we have always been. Hello, Apathy my old friend............

Best song is "stuck in the middle with you" but its also the worst position to be in. 32 teams , at best 6-7 good draft positions per year, 10 teams not getting anything of value and missing the playoffs, 8 more that make first round and nothing more...middle is just a bad spot.

 

[Tighthead]

I doubt the nhl doesnt make a special exception in this contract, much like a few other bad ones. Most teams arent worrier about the cap floor either..maybe ottawa. Regradless this sounded like a molson move to pinch pennies for jis last few seasons. They figure he would be like Chelios and be a good d man into his 40s...lol not so much

Vancouver is taking a hit in Luongo, same situation. He had worn down some, but didn’t explore any LTIR options that may have provided cap relief.

I used to think the league would make an exception, but at this point all the evidence suggests they won’t. I do think they would encourage the Habs to trade him back to Nashville before he retires so they could try to work out LTIR.

I compare it to recapture under capital cost allowance. We all enjoy that annual depreciation, until we sell the asset off for more than the depreciated book value.

 

[Lshap]

I think the year before we also had a great start. 9-2-1 or something like that. Hot start when everyone is fresh and then mid season slump...its midseason for this year at 20 games....right on time

Yup, pretty good start in 2018/19 too, although not quite that hot. Habs were 11-6-3 at the 20-game mark.

 

[Tyson]

Can Ducharme stop the implosion that has occurred for several years now of starting strong and crumbling 20 games in?

 

[Lshap]

After that streak, I still don't understand why Bozovin didn't realize it was a lost cause and trade off any of the assets that still had value at the time (Tatar, Armia, Danault).

Not only would he have gotten back some decent to good pieces, he would have helped boost our draft standing into at least the top 10 in a draft year that was exceptionally good.

Instead, we now have this s***t show with guys having little to no trade value and bottoming out into a top ten pick in a terrible draft year.

Talk about going in circles..

Ah yes... the paths left untaken...

The fact that Bergevin didn't trade Tatar a year ago and never attempted to move up in the draft shows he was dead-set on competing this year. Like it or not, he's all-in with Price and Weber. If it's any consolation, even if we had drafted in the top-9, our history has shown it might not have made much difference.

Bergevin's off-season additions have been great; unfortunately, his existing core hasn't shown up. If Price, Weber, Danault, Chiarot and Tatar were playing up to their standards this would be a good team.

 

[Tighthead]

Ah yes... the paths left untaken...

The fact that Bergevin didn't trade Tatar a year ago and never attempted to move up in the draft shows he was dead-set on competing this year. Like it or not, he's all-in with Price and Weber. If it's any consolation, even if we had drafted in the top-9, our history has shown it might not have made much difference.

Bergevin's off-season additions have been great; unfortunately, his existing core hasn't shown up. If Price, Weber, Danault, Chiarot and Tatar were playing up to their standards this would be a good team.

Even with those things, the roster still screams out for a partner for Weber/ PP QB.

It’s amazing to me that MB thought Edmundson was the solution to the D so much that he targeted him in UFA. Edmundson is decent, but he answers a question that the roster wasn’t asking.

It’s amazing that MB loves Weber so much yet has never given him a decent partner.

 

[ZUKI]

In anticipation of this summer, just did some research and just put together a couple lists:

GM Options:
Patrick Roy - Quebec (QMJHL) - GM/Head Coach
Mathieu Darche - Lightning - Dir. of Hockey Operations
Martin Madden - Ducks - Asst. GM
Pat Brisson - NHL Agent
Martin Brodeur - Devils - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations
Daniel Briere - Maine (ECHL) - GM
Francois Giguere - N/A - Formers Avalance GM
Philippe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL) - GM
Serge Beausoileil - Rimouski (QMJHL) - GM
Pierre McGuire - NBC - Analyst
Martin Lapointe - Canadiens - Dir. of Player Personnel

Coach Options:
Andre Tourigny - Ottawa (OHL) - Head Coach
Benoit Groulx - Syracuse (AHL) - Head Coach
Jim Montgomery - Blues - Asst. Coach
Alain Nasreddine - Devils - Head Coach (2020)
Pascal Vincent - Manitoba (AHL) - Head Coach
Joel Bouchard - Laval (AHL) - Head Coach
Patrick Roy - Quebec (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Guy Boucher - N/A - Former Lightning Coach
Ian Lapperriere - Flyers - Asst. Coach
Marc Crawford - Blackhawks - Asst. Coach
Martin Gelinas - Flames - Asst. Coach
Steve Potvin - Tucson (AHL) - Head Coach
Stephane Julien - Sherbrooke (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Dan Lacroix - Moncton (QMJHL) - Head Coach
J.J. Daigneault - Halifax (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Jacques Martin - Rangers - Asst. Coach
Alex Burrows - Canadiens - Asst. Coach
Jean-Francois Houle - Bakersfield (AHL) - Asst. Coach
Alex Tanguay - Iowa (AHL) - Asst. Coach
Louis Robitaille - Gatineau (QMJHL) - Head Coach/GM
Yanick Jean - Chicoutimi (QMJHL) - Head Coach/GM

Ranked IMO of realistic of occurring.

good work, thank you !
but, Pierre McGuire - NBC - ?????
the guy that wanted to trade Suban and the 3rd overall selection, so that the Habs could take ... what was his name ? the Russian guy that was selected by the OILER's ?

 

[ZUKI]

I’ll catch a lot of flack for this but I would love Pierre McGuire as the GM.

ban this guy !

 

[Doc McKenna]

Yup, pretty good start in 2018/19 too, although not quite that hot. Habs were 11-6-3 at the 20-game mark.

They went 6-3-2 in october, 14 out of 22 points. Solid start for sure.

 

[tazsub3]

I doubt the nhl doesnt make a special exception in this contract, much like a few other bad ones. Most teams arent worrier about the cap floor either..maybe ottawa. Regradless this sounded like a molson move to pinch pennies for jis last few seasons. They figure he would be like Chelios and be a good d man into his 40s...lol not so much

they dont need an exception, only nashville need to trade for him again to avoid the problem

 

[EXPOS123]

Ah yes... the paths left untaken...

The fact that Bergevin didn't trade Tatar a year ago and never attempted to move up in the draft shows he was dead-set on competing this year. Like it or not, he's all-in with Price and Weber. If it's any consolation, even if we had drafted in the top-9, our history has shown it might not have made much difference.

Bergevin's off-season additions have been great; unfortunately, his existing core hasn't shown up. If Price, Weber, Danault, Chiarot and Tatar were playing up to their standards this would be a good team.

That's on Bozovin for thinking that he could bank on his "core". Everyone and their grandmother knew Weber was/is finished, that Price was not top 5 (and now not top 10) anymore, that Tatar was a lame duck and that Danault was overrated in that he was not never going to give enough offense.

And for saying "....if it's any consolation, even if we had drafted in the top-9, our history has shown it might not have made much difference"..... man that is really sad and just reinforces the ineptitiude and mediocrity that we've been in for the past 30 years.

(P.s. Wish i could put in a GiF of the movie Dark City scene where the guy is drawing circles on the subway wall)

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Oh man, what is left to say about MB? We have said it all 5 times over and we are still stuck with him in the same place we have always been. Hello, Apathy my old friend............

I predict the most epic post-mortem authopsy in the history of NHL GMs.

Just compiling the memes and Bergevinisms will be a grand undertaking.

 

[Lshap]

That's on Bozovin for thinking that he could bank on his "core". Everyone and their grandmother knew Weber was/is finished, that Price was not top 5 (and now not top 10) anymore, that Tatar was a lame duck and that Danault was overrated in that he was not never going to give enough offense.

There was no reason to expect Price or Weber to be playing so poorly. Both were better last season and Price was great as recently as August. Danault is, what, 27? How could anyone have predicted his complete collapse? Zero freaking goals! Even Weber at 35 can't use age as an excuse. None are injured (that we know). These key pillars of our core are playing way below where they should be, and have cost our team games.

And for saying "....if it's any consolation, even if we had drafted in the top-9, our history has shown it might not have made much difference"..... man that is really sad and just reinforces the ineptitiude and mediocrity that we've been in for the past 30 years.

No argument here. Our drafting/development has been beyond awful. Why the hell haven't the Habs poached scouts from other teams? Our crew clearly can't get the job done.

 

[le_sean]

No argument here. Our drafting/development has been beyond awful. Why the hell haven't the Habs poached scouts from other teams? Our crew clearly can't get the job done.

When you’re a rich team constrained by the rules of the cap world, you have to find other ways to exert your power. To me that would be poaching scouts from other teams as you’ve mentioned. I look at the Jets, great scouting and development department (at least better than the Habs). Why can’t they take some of those guys. More money and you get to live in Montreal instead of Winnipeg? Everyone would say yes.

 

[yianik]

I think Bergevin has improved as a GM these last couple of years , but he still has a blind spot with how to build a D.


Bergevin just does not seem to put a high enough value on PMDs and their importance to be a competitive team. The farthest he will go is guys with some mobility given their size, but that's it.

If he didn't think this way I believe he would never have done the take or leave nonsense with Markov, or have traded Sergachev.

I just don't get it. And don't tell me it's old style hockey because there was never a time a time PMDs were not relevant or valued.

 

[MaynardJames]

In anticipation of this summer, just did some research and just put together a couple lists:

GM Options:
Patrick Roy - Quebec (QMJHL) - GM/Head Coach
Mathieu Darche - Lightning - Dir. of Hockey Operations
Martin Madden - Ducks - Asst. GM
Pat Brisson - NHL Agent
Martin Brodeur - Devils - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations
Daniel Briere - Maine (ECHL) - GM
Francois Giguere - N/A - Formers Avalance GM
Philippe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL) - GM
Serge Beausoileil - Rimouski (QMJHL) - GM
Pierre McGuire - NBC - Analyst
Martin Lapointe - Canadiens - Dir. of Player Personnel

Every one of those names scare me more than Bergevin. who knows what we would have to go through with a new GM that hasn't prove anything. I would be very pissed to bring a guy doing worst. Lets get a clear upgrade or nothing. Even Brisebois who is clearly smarter has flaws. His prospect pool right now is one of the worst in the league. Cirelli in 2015, Point in 2014 and no one else since. We didn't do better sadly.

I think Joel Bouchard will be the next one. But when ? It will all depends on the results this year. No need to hope for changes before.

 

[Hins77]

In anticipation of this summer, just did some research and just put together a couple lists:

GM Options:
Patrick Roy - Quebec (QMJHL) - GM/Head Coach
Mathieu Darche - Lightning - Dir. of Hockey Operations
Martin Madden - Ducks - Asst. GM
Pat Brisson - NHL Agent
Martin Brodeur - Devils - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations
Daniel Briere - Maine (ECHL) - GM
Francois Giguere - N/A - Formers Avalance GM
Philippe Boucher - Drummondville (QMJHL) - GM
Serge Beausoileil - Rimouski (QMJHL) - GM
Pierre McGuire - NBC - Analyst
Martin Lapointe - Canadiens - Dir. of Player Personnel

Coach Options:
Andre Tourigny - Ottawa (OHL) - Head Coach
Benoit Groulx - Syracuse (AHL) - Head Coach
Jim Montgomery - Blues - Asst. Coach
Alain Nasreddine - Devils - Head Coach (2020)
Pascal Vincent - Manitoba (AHL) - Head Coach
Joel Bouchard - Laval (AHL) - Head Coach
Patrick Roy - Quebec (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Guy Boucher - N/A - Former Lightning Coach
Ian Lapperriere - Flyers - Asst. Coach
Marc Crawford - Blackhawks - Asst. Coach
Martin Gelinas - Flames - Asst. Coach
Steve Potvin - Tucson (AHL) - Head Coach
Stephane Julien - Sherbrooke (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Dan Lacroix - Moncton (QMJHL) - Head Coach
J.J. Daigneault - Halifax (QMJHL) - Head Coach
Jacques Martin - Rangers - Asst. Coach
Alex Burrows - Canadiens - Asst. Coach
Jean-Francois Houle - Bakersfield (AHL) - Asst. Coach
Alex Tanguay - Iowa (AHL) - Asst. Coach
Louis Robitaille - Gatineau (QMJHL) - Head Coach/GM
Yanick Jean - Chicoutimi (QMJHL) - Head Coach/GM

Ranked IMO of realistic of occurring.

For a GM. I would select a guy more cerebral, and been played in the NHL shouldnt to be an important factor. Honestly. I like what guy like lamoriello, dubas, brisebois are doing. Thats the kind of GM i would prefer. Martin Madden would be interessting. I really like his pick in Anaheim.

 

[EXPOS123]

The next gm has to without a doubt have a vision of making this org. the absolute best in in scouting and player development.

Whether this means the next gm is a great scout himself or whether he knows who the great scouts/player development people are and puts them in place doesn't matter, as long as that is the focus

We have become the Montreal Expos where we have no choice but to rely on producing our own star players as we will never be able to attract the absolute top end talent here via free agency and therefore need to rely on producing our own (with the exception of actually keeping them we do have them, unlike what the Expos did).

This is also important due to the salary cap as you need young players to eventually replace ones that become too expensive to keep

 

[Wats]

Longterm team outlook isn't as bad as it was couple years ago talent wise but in terms of albatross contracts it's going to look scary. There's a high likelihood more than one of Price/Gallagher/Weber/Anderson/Petry need to be Alznered.