Maple Leafs: Year of origin?

[Yes Im Peter Ing]

I've always wondered, what is the generally accepted year of origin for the Toronto Maple Leafs franchise? I know that the Maple Leafs see the club as being created in 1927, beginning with the rebranding of the St. Pats, but how wise is this?

Were the St. Pats/Arenas not the same team just with a different name and identity? Why should Conn Smythe's purchase and re-branding of the club wipe out all of the organization's history pre-1927?

Click to read more...

 

[Northern Dancer]

I've always wondered, what is the generally accepted year of origin for the Toronto Maple Leafs franchise? I know that the Maple Leafs see the club as being created in 1927, beginning with the rebranding of the St. Pats, but how wise is this?

Were the St. Pats/Arenas not the same team just with a different name and identity? Why should Conn Smythe's purchase and re-branding of the club wipe out all of the organization's history pre-1927?

I believe the Arenas and St. Pats are recognized as the same team as the Leafs and that is why Toronto is credited with 12 Stanley Cup winning teams. Another team the Toronto Blue Shirts won the Stanley Cup and they are not part of that list.

 

[jamiebez]

Trying to get that Cup count up to 13, eh?

I agree with you about the St. Pats, but the Arenas were a different team. They withdrew from the NHL after the 1918/19 season, and declared bankruptcy. They were purchased out of bankruptcy and re-named the St. Pats for the next season

From http://www.mapleleafs.com/history/1920s.asp

Late in the following season, the Toronto Arenas withdrew from the NHL due to financial difficulties, but the Toronto franchise reemerged in the 1919-20 season, this time with new owners and a new name – Toronto St. Pats.

 

[Leaf Lander]

http://groups.msn.com/TORONTOMAPLELEAFFANSZONE/_whatsnew.msnw

 

[ClassicHockey]

I clicked on the link and then realized that was the timeline I wrote for the website a few months ago. Its nice to know that at least one person viewed it.

Trying to get that Cup count up to 13, eh?

I agree with you about the St. Pats, but the Arenas were a different team. They withdrew from the NHL after the 1918/19 season, and declared bankruptcy. They were purchased out of bankruptcy and re-named the St. Pats for the next season

From http://www.mapleleafs.com/history/1920s.asp:

 

[Yes Im Peter Ing]

I clicked on the link and then realized that was the timeline I wrote for the website a few months ago. Its nice to know that at least one person viewed it.

So what would you say is the official year of origin for the club? In 2002 the Leafs celebrated their "75th anniversary". But I've seen sources cite 1917 as the club's first year. In fact, I have a Leafs hat that has the year "1917" written on it, and it's officially licensed...

 

[ClassicHockey]

I never thought much about it.

The Leafs as a team name didn't exist in 1917. Actually, for a good part of the year, the Toronto team that year wasn't known as anything. The Arenas name came later in the year. That team ceased to exist and was reborn.

You could say Toronto hockey in the NHA before 1917.
Or Toronto hockey since 1917 in the NHL.
Or the actual Toronto Maple Leaf brand from February 1927.

It depends on whether you want to specify the league or the team nickname.

Since the 75th Anniversary was in 2002 and recognized as such by the NHL (they created the video, not the Leafs), then I would say 1927.

So what would you say is the official year of origin for the club? In 2002 the Leafs celebrated their "75th anniversary". But I've seen sources cite 1917 as the club's first year. In fact, I have a Leafs hat that has the year "1917" written on it, and it's officially licensed...

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

So what about the Red Wings, who also were re-branded in their early years at least once? I think they were called the Falcons or something.

 

[Wetcoaster]

So what about the Red Wings, who also were re-branded in their early years at least once? I think they were called the Falcons or something.

Cougars, then Falcons and finally Red Wings.

Originally when Detroit entered the NHL 1926 they were named the Cougars. That was courtesy of the Victoria Cougers of a rival professional league, the Western Hockey League, that folded. Detroit purchased the Victoria roster (which had won the Stanley Cup in 1925) and moved them east. For the first season the Detroit Cougars played in Windsor, Ontario as the new rink in Detroit (the Olympia) was being built.

In 1930 the team was re-named the Falcons and they went bankrupt. The NHL was in competition with another major pro league, the American Hockey Association (which became the American Hockey League). To crush this threat the NHL went to one of the major owners in the AHL, James Norris, Sr. who owned the Chicago Shamrocks. The NHL let Norris buy the Falcons and allowed him to merge that team with his Chicago Shamrocks in 1932.

In the early 1900's Norris had played for a very powerful hockey team, the Montreal Amateur Athletic Association, which had started out as a bicycle racing club before branching into other sports. The MAAA hockey team was nicknamed the "Winged Wheelers" in honour of their bicycle racing pedigree. Norris lifted the MAAA logo (a winged wheel) and renamed the club the Red Wings. With the auto history in Detroit the logo was quite fitting.

Detroit Cougars logo:

Original Red Wings (1932-34) logo:

Current logo:
http://www.sportslogos.net/images/teams/primaries/79.gif

 

[Pens75]

You could say Toronto hockey in the NHA before 1917.
Or Toronto hockey since 1917 in the NHL.
Or the actual Toronto Maple Leaf brand from February 1927.

It depends on whether you want to specify the league or the team nickname.

That's why I get bent when people talk about the deep history of these "popular" hockey cities, while many view Pittsburgh as a 1967 newcomer to the sport...

- Duquense Gardens Rink 1896 .......... 1st in U.S. (Canada built 2 in 1895)
- United States Amateur Team 1897 .......... 1st in U.S.
- Western Pennsylvania Hockey League 1901-04 .......... 1st semi-pro league
- International Professional Hockey League 1904-07 .......... 1st professional league
- Yellow Jackets 1915-25 / 1931-32 .......... 2 Championships
- NHL Pirates 1925-30 .......... 2nd NHL team in U.S.
- Hornets 1924-25 / 1936-56 / 1961-67 .......... 3 Championships
- NHL Penguins 1967-Present .......... 2 Stanley Cup Championships

There is a lot more hockey in Pittsburgh worth recognising than just the Penguins.

No NHL city in the U.S., and very few in Canada, have roots that deep.

 

[Pens75]

Something else interesting about old Leafs hockey...

The Pittsburgh Hornets in the '50s were the minor-league farm club of the Toronto Maple Leafs, who won four Stanley Cups between 1947 and 1951.

Both teams were VERY good, because of that, lots of great players didn't make it to the NHL. The Hornets Frank Mathers was one of the AHL's best defensemen but he played only 23 games for Toronto over three seasons and had no options to join other organizations. There was no free agency at the time.

 

[OG6ix]

Something else interesting about old Leafs hockey...

The Pittsburgh Hornets in the '50s were the minor-league farm club of the Toronto Maple Leafs, who won four Stanley Cups between 1947 and 1951.

Both teams were VERY good, because of that, lots of great players didn't make it to the NHL. The Hornets Frank Mathers was one of the AHL's best defensemen but he played only 23 games for Toronto over three seasons and had no options to join other organizations. There was no free agency at the time.

We know about hockey in pittsburgh has deep roots... we just don't care.

You know two other cities with deep hockey roots? Seattle and Portland.

 

[Pens75]

You know two other cities with deep hockey roots? Seattle and Portland.

Do they have an NHL team?

 

[Pens75]

Something else really cool...

Buddy of mine has a bunch of old Toronto papers from the Leafs Cup years.



I've been trying to get him to let me borrow them so I can scan them.

 

[OG6ix]

Do they have an NHL team?

Nope, chicago took our team.

 

[Ukie*]

who cares about toronto

 

[arrbez]

Something else really cool...

Buddy of mine has a bunch of old Toronto papers from the Leafs Cup years.



I've been trying to get him to let me borrow them so I can scan them.

the cups from the 60's or the 40's?

 

[arrbez]

who cares about toronto

Well, clearly anyone who would bother posting in such a thread does...

But the more pressing question is:

who cares about Ukie?

 

[Northern Dancer]

Well, clearly anyone who would bother posting in such a thread does...

But the more pressing question is:

who cares about Ukie?

Yes Arrrbez, it certainly was an intelligent post !!!!