Injury Report: Maple Leafs' Petter Granberg on waivers, Reimer Lower body?

[Shanty]

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/spor...s_troubling_concussion_questions_dimanno.html

I understand the point you're trying to make Zeke, but... This article is clearly biased to believing that Reimer had these issues from the start, and the entire narrative is swayed that way. There's no counter argument at all, just "seems like he hurt his head, right?" the whole way through.

The last line of the article is insulting him, making him seem like a dumby, to further bias the article.

 

[Daisy Jane]

And you know this how? You do realize players get tested for these kind of things, and won't and the trainers won't let them play if they fail protocol?

this is what keeps making me raise an eyebrow.
When on earth did this happen?

that's because it was whiplash, which can also cause concussion like symptoms, however not be a concussion.

But the thing is - whiplash, or whatever - if he was experiencing concussion like symptoms - I honestly don't think he'd been allowed to play.

Like. I find it very, very hard to believe that the Leafs did their tests, saw that he had some kind of head-ish/neck-ish injury, tested them (WHICH they had to do) and went "Nah yer good" and ignored it. (especially as you hear that usually there are a lot of followups when it comes to head-ish/neck-ish things)

so I am sorry. until there is a clear. defined article, or reputable source saying that he DID have concussion symptoms and the Leafs just threw him out there and basically made him play anyway - it's a theory and not one i buy - because again - they test for this).

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I do not agree that his brain is his best asset...I have watched him repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over again. I fully expect that he will be included in a trade at some point this season.

Ok, I trust your judgement but hope you are mistaken.

I dont get to see much of the Marlies myself other then the highlight packages on YT.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Percy is good skater and a very good d-man. His setbacks have all been in the injury department. It's the unsung part of "development" that rarely gets talked about - these guys have to go from being good hockey players to be physical beasts if they wanna succeed as a Pro.

Yeah, always having to do rehab is not great, especially at this stage of his career.

 

[gabeliscious]

Marlies requiring waivers next year:

Levio
Percy
Loov ?
Bailey
Rupert
Panik
Carrick

i think the only one who we could potentially lose that might suck is loov. i would be surprised if percy, leivo, and carrick dont crack the roster and the others are dime a dozen players that i would be absolutely shocked if someone claimed.

 

[zeke]

I understand the point you're trying to make Zeke, but... This article is clearly biased to believing that Reimer had these issues from the start, and the entire narrative is swayed that way. There's no counter argument at all, just "seems like he hurt his head, right?" the whole way through.

The last line of the article is insulting him, making him seem like a dumby, to further bias the article.

I don't think it's biased.

He had previous concussion issues, and in ths game was kicked in the head resulting in, in his own words, having his "bell rung" and "headaches".

and yet was not forced to follow concussion protocols.

 

[Daisy Jane]

FYI, since NSH claimed Granberg off waivers, they can't assign him to the AHL without first offering him back to us (and if we take him back, we can send him to the Marlies w/o waivers). If we refuse him, he would then have to pass through waivers unclaimed to go to their AHL team. I'm 100% positive they do not plan on playing him in the minors, unless their GM doesn't understand the waiver rules (which is almost unthinkable).

oh thanks for that. that was a duurrr on me.

but he'll have the conditioning stint then he might be Corrado'ed.

 

[rrc1967]

this is what keeps making me raise an eyebrow.
When on earth did this happen?



But the thing is - whiplash, or whatever - if he was experiencing concussion like symptoms - I honestly don't think he'd been allowed to play.

Like. I find it very, very hard to believe that the Leafs did their tests, saw that he had some kind of head-ish/neck-ish injury, tested them (WHICH they had to do) and went "Nah yer good" and ignored it. (especially as you hear that usually there are a lot of followups when it comes to head-ish/neck-ish things)

so I am sorry. until there is a clear. defined article, or reputable source saying that he DID have concussion symptoms and the Leafs just threw him out there and basically made him play anyway - it's a theory and not one i buy - because again - they test for this).

yes because sports teams and even hockey teams are so good at diagnosing issues.

 

[WTFMAN99]

yes because sports teams and even hockey teams are so good at diagnosing issues.

Some players can "fool" those concussion baseline tests, and do so knowingly in order to get back to playing.

 

[Shanty]

I don't think it's biased.

He had previous concussion issues, and in ths game was kicked in the head resulting in, in his own words, having his "bell rung" and "headaches".

and yet was not forced to follow concussion protocols.

Yes, because he and the training staff, based on what they saw, didn't feel it necessary.

Do you really think that they would have passed on the checks if they weren't absolutely sure, especially considering he DOES have concussion history? I don't buy that.

 

[zeke]

Yes, because he and the training staff, based on what they saw, didn't feel it necessary.

Do you really think that they would have passed on the checks if they weren't absolutely sure, especially considering he DOES have concussion history? I don't buy that.

i don't think Randy & Co. gave a flying fark about reimer's longterm prospects, tbh.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Some players can "fool" those concussion baseline tests, and do so knowingly in order to get back to playing.

which then if this was the case, Reimer doesn't get any sympathy from me. if he hid it from the team - that's on him. I find it very hard to believe in this day and age, especially with all the lawsuits flying about re: concussions that the trainers etc who do have to do these things - would just be "there you go. have at'er."

this is the way I see it.

If Reimer felt he had whiplash or anything like that - I am pretty certain that the trainers HAVE to go through it if not via the game - afterwards. there are also those concussion checkers in the stands.

if Reimer had symptoms afterwards and didn't say anything (or hid it) - that's on him. (and please let's remember hockey players do stupid things, see Bergeron and his collapsed lung or that Pittsburgh player who played games with blood clots).

Reimer doesn't get a pass for playing hero and he didn't say anything. and I don't think as much as people want to make Randy the villain in everything they'd knowingly push an injured player to play - especially if said person in the era of the Concussion lawsuit could turn around and slap them with one.

Now it is possible Reimer had them and didn't know (and the team didn't know) and that's one thing, but no one is presenting that theory at all. It's being presented that the Leafs didn't care and poor, poor, Reimer. which i am calling a big fat bowl of bullcrap on. If this is the case, I'd like proof, not an opinion piece by DiManno who mentions he COULD be hurt, and doesn't spend time whatsoever around the team, minus a major press conference or two.

 

[Pholus]

Marlies requiring waivers next year:

Levio
Percy
Loov ?
Bailey
Rupert
Panik
Carrick

Rupert won't require waivers, and I don't think Bailey will either (tho not 100% sure). My guess for Loov would be no, although Granberg needed waivers this yr after 2 seasons in AHL so Loov very well might require waivers next year too.

 

[keon]

Rupert won't require waivers, and I don't think Bailey will either (tho not 100% sure). My guess for Loov would be no, although Granberg needed waivers this yr after 2 seasons in AHL so Loov very well might require waivers next year too.

You are right about Rupert not requiring waivers. My bad. The rest are all potential depth players. Bailey might not be resigned as an RFA.

 

[tokyoite]

Why is Corrado still sitting in the press box ?
I don't get it.

 

[rrc1967]

Yes, because he and the training staff, based on what they saw, didn't feel it necessary.

Do you really think that they would have passed on the checks if they weren't absolutely sure, especially considering he DOES have concussion history? I don't buy that.

really? bernier was already out of the game. pull out your only goaltender for 20 minutes in the quiet room? you don't think there was a consideration there? it was so bad that Carlyle asked Colton Orr if he ever played goal.

with players I think they are alot more careful. however, I don't think they are as careful with goaltenders and the quiet room.

Consider the impact of taking a goaltender out because he needs to go to the quiet room.

I suspect the gray area where they will say yes, take him out is alot narrower than with players.

My own opinion, and not based upon reimer's situation.

Whiplash can certainly hurt tracking a puck at the nhl level. that obviously be just common sense..

I've tweaked my neck muscles in games.. and oh. my. god. was it hard to continue.

 

[Shanty]

really? bernier was already out of the game. pull out your only goaltender for 20 minutes in the quiet room? you don't think there was a consideration there? it was so bad that Carlyle asked Colton Orr if he ever played goal.

with players I think they are alot more careful. however, I don't think they are as careful with goaltenders and the quiet room.

Consider the impact of taking a goaltender out because he needs to go to the quiet room.

I suspect the gray area where they will say yes, take him out is alot narrower than with players.

My own opinion, and not based upon reimer's situation.

Whiplash can certainly hurt tracking a puck at the nhl level. that obviously be just common sense..

I've tweaked my neck muscles in games.. and oh. my. god. was it hard to continue.

So you are of the opinion that NHL coaches, players, and staffers are more concerned with the immediate impact in a game, rather than the season-long or career-long usage of a player?

I'm just not I guess.

 

[zeke]

ask Lindros about that.

 

[Shanty]

ask Lindros about that.

I think Lindros had a different kind of problem. He didn't have bad luck, he had bad luck once, then didn't learn how to avoid bad luck.

 

[rrc1967]

So you are of the opinion that NHL coaches, players, and staffers are more concerned with the immediate impact in a game, rather than the season-long or career-long usage of a player?

seriously .. they didn't follow protocol he was shaken up on the play after being kicked in the head, and they looked at the overhead replay and went.. nahhhh..

and are you kidding me? how many stories of players playing in the playoffs or big games with serious injuries has there been over the years?

I have been kicked in the head a few times playing goal, and it can really make your head rattle. the padding is less on the sides.

do you want to tell me how they figured he didnt' have a concussion from looking at the big screen above them?

After the game, Randy Carlyle said he didn’t think that Reimer “actually got kicked in the head.”
“He hit him more in the shoulder area, from our standpoint, when we reviewed,” Carlyle said. “He said he was fine.”

some medical review?!

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...reimers_return_vs_kings_raises_questions.html

 

[Shanty]

seriously .. they didn't follow protocol he was shaken up on the play after being kicked in the head, and they looked at the overhead replay and went.. nahhhh..

do you want to tell me how they figured he didnt' have a concussion from looking at the big screen above them?

And you know for sure that he did from watching on TV? Why do you think we know any better than they do exactly? Are you a doctor?

 

[rrc1967]

And you know for sure that he did from watching on TV? Why do you think we know any better than they do exactly? Are you a doctor?

because reimer said he got his bell rung.

the PLAYER stated he got hit in the head.

and are you a doctor? how do you know any different..

Brain surgeon and concussion expert Dr. Charles Tator said the classic symptom of a concussion is when a player reports getting his “bell rung.” That should be recognized as a “warning symptom,” Tator said in a telephone interview.

I do understand this isn't bernier.. so everything's suspect when it comes to Reimer, but the NHL has a long history of having players play even if they shouldn't as long as they say .. "I'm okay to play coach.."

 

[Shanty]

because reimer said he got his bell rung.

the PLAYER stated he got hit in the head.

and are you a doctor? how do you know any different..

I do understand this isn't bernier.. so everything's suspect when it comes to Reimer, but the NHL has a long history of having players play even if they shouldn't as long as they say .. "I'm okay to play coach.."

This is anecdotal, so obviously take it with a grain of salt, but...

I played Lacrosse in high school, and I was a goalie. I was tall, so it was just the logical choice for a position few kids wanted to play.

One game, I picked up the ball behind my net, but didn't see the SIX FOOT FIVE, 220+ POUND KID running at my ass. I'm out of my crease, meaning I'm fair game.

I got absolutely clobbered. Hit in the head, hit the ground, hit my head again. Dazed for a moment, I got to my feet, slipped, then awkwardly ran back to my net. All in all, out of the play for probably 10 seconds.

If you had seen me get hit, you would think I'd have been concussed. I got absolutely clobbered, knocked into the air, full-on Slapshot level stuff. But I was completely fine. Sometimes, you can get clobbered really hard, and not suffer any ill effects.

Again, anecdotal, not saying this is what happened to Reimer, but... I'm more inclined to believe that one of our two starting goalies was at least "probably okay" rather than "clearly not okay" based on how he was hit, what happened afterwards, and how he was handled.

If our doctors clearly put him back out with a concussion, they should have been or should be immediately removed from staff. And that's why it's very hard for me to believe he was badly hurt.

 

[rrc1967]

you miss the point, the doctors did not interview him.

the subsequent game and the remainder of the season, reimer did not play as well has he had prior.

coincidence? maybe. but it was his worst stretch of games of his fairly young NHL career starting right afterwards. of course, since it's reimer.. that's no excuse.

that being said, with reimer's style.. they should work on his helmet a bit to help prevent concussions, whiplash as much as possible .. he's certainly going to be in positions of getting hit in the head more than others.

 

[zeke]

the whole concussion protocol thing had to be league mandated because teams were ignoring concussions and making players feel like wimps for not playing through them.