Confirmed with Link: Maple Leafs Name Laurence Gilman Assistant General Manager

[Morbo]

The reports at the time were quite mixed on what happened. The Avs go to beat writer had a conflicting report to that of McKenzie, as shown in these tweets.

Thanks for finally providing a source, but I'll take Bob McKenzie over a hack like Adrian Dater any time. I'll also tend to believe Brendan Shanahan when he says that Dubas was pretty unhappy about the blocked move. Doubt he'd feel that way about another subordinate position with a different organization.

As for the analytics thing, I'm going to drop it because you obviously didn't even read the article I posted, and we were never arguing that Dubas has an interest in analytics anyway, simply about whether he is defined by them outside of the media.

 

[SprDaVE]

Thanks for finally providing a source, but I'll take Bob McKenzie over a hack like Adrian Dater any time. I'll also tend to believe Brendan Shanahan when he says that Dubas was pretty unhappy about the blocked move. Doubt he'd feel that way about another subordinate position with a different organization.

As for the analytics thing, I'm going to drop it because you obviously didn't even read the article I posted, and we were never arguing that Dubas has an interest in analytics anyway, simply about whether he is defined by them outside of the media.

Same here. Ask Avs fans how accurate Dater is. Didn't he also get fired from one of his jobs as well?

 

[Daisy Jane]

If it was to run Hockey Ops, we would have had issues in actually blocking the hire. As that would have been a clear promotion. From my understanding, it was a position under Joe Sakic. Which is why Sakic is still in place as the head of Hockey Ops there. It is very unclear what happened there. As reported by Friedman at the time.

Friedman: Window closed for Kyle Dubas in Colorado - Sportsnet.ca

Pretty much all NHL employees have clear outs in their contracts for a job higher than their current title if it is offered by another team.

yah. but management can still say no.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Whatever it was, I am glad we have him. I think he is the best choice in the long run ( between him and Hunter). He may be young, but he is smart. Surrounding himself with other youngish executives with understanding of the modern game only confirms this. I liked Hunter, but the better man won the position.

we hope.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Whatever it was, I am glad we have him. I think he is the best choice in the long run ( between him and Hunter). He may be young, but he is smart. Surrounding himself with other youngish executives with understanding of the modern game only confirms this. I liked Hunter, but the better man won the position.

I don't have 100% confidence yet but he is in the driver's seat now. I don't want to see him fail because that means our team will suffer for it. Hopefully he does well in the role.

 

[93LEAFS]

Same here. Ask Avs fans how accurate Dater is. Didn't he also get fired from one of his jobs as well?

He got fired for something completely unrelated to his ability to cover a hockey team. It had to do with misconduct using social media.

 

[SprDaVE]

He got fired for something completely unrelated to his ability to cover a hockey team. It had to do with misconduct using social media.

...Yeah.

 

[Menzinger]

Pretty much all NHL executive contracts have an out for a promotion. Now, there are issues about timelines, which is why Colorado was screwed when Roy quit in August, because almost no team was willing to give permission to talk to their assistants. Its why you only see people promoted when they switch teams unless they are out of contract such as Babcock.

What happened with Dubas and Colorado is quite confusing, and the full story has never really gotten out. What exactly his role was (was it full control of hockey ops? GM under Sakic? or a lateral hire), and who exactly was recruiting him (was it Sakic or was it, Josh Kroenke).

If they shut down the interviews in like August, it would make sense. But, the Dubas situation happened in late May. Now, the Leafs could have told him that they wanted to re-sign him and promote him in time, but then the story would just have been Dubas turned down the Colorado opportunity to extend his contract with the Leafs.

Something weird had to have happened for the Leafs to pull permission. Whether it was due to Colorado being misleading about the type of interview (some claiming that Leafs were letting them ask him stuff about analytics as they searched for someone), but its pretty weird they would allow an interview that could leak trade secrets.

If some team came to the Leafs tomorrow and asked to interview DJ Smith or Sheldon Keefe for a head-coaching job, we would allow that to happen and would only pull permission if they were trying to hire them as assistants. Its pretty much unheard of for a team to grant permission for someone to be interviewed for a promotion elsewhere, and then have the permission suddenly revoked. This is really the only example I can think of in recent NHL history.

The final option is that the interview window closed without Dubas being offered the job.

I’ve always interpreted the Avs situation as Lou likely being more than happy to let Dubas walk, Shanny not so much, hence why he shut everything down. The disjointedness of the process came about by the unusual Leafs management structure.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’ve always interpreted the Avs situation as Lou likely being more than happy to let Dubas walk, Shanny not so much, hence why he shut everything down. The disjointedness of the process came about by the unusual Leafs management structure.

Let's remember Shanahan's first major hire was Dubas and it was before Mark Hunter was brought on.

 

[Growler]

Whatever term you use, I'm not sure how much more Dubas and the Leafs could have used the ECHL. While the Solar Bears might have been mediocre, plenty of the depth players from the Marlies either came from the ECHL or developed there over the years. Whether it was to find players or to develop, Dubas used that league quite a bit and again, expecting for Gilman to be even more active there seems like a big stretch.

It's the ECHL for a reason. I get that you're probably super excited to have a pro team around, especially one tied to the Leafs, but it's not going to be something new.

Organisations change affiliations with teams all the time. St Johns has probably changed affiliations a handful of times in the last couple decades. It happens often. It was reported about a year or two ago that the Leafs wanted to get their own ECHL team, or at least change affiliations. And here we are.

There is more information leaking out gradually on this whole thing. Keep in mind that the affiliation has not even been formally announced yet. When it does, more will come out. A recent Telegram article mentioned that the Marlies investment will be significant, filling out as much as 70% of the roster.

I think it may be more in fact in the 1st year because 70% is at times what they contributed in Orlando. Heck, the Marlies even sent guys to other ECHL franchises when Orlando was too full, and the Growlers will need some additional help out of the gate. 70% already is more than any other AHL franchise by quite a bit. It might go as high as 75% in year 1 and level down a bit as the Growlers get on their feet thereafter.

But there was this other article about a Craig Custance interview, "From what we know of the Leafs deal in St. John’s, they aren’t the owners, but they are calling more shots there than they ever did elsewhere, and it sure looks like they are setting the place up to train all sorts of staff. The assumption for the Leafs has to be that every bright, young person in their organization is as likely to end up poached by another team as promoted up to the Leafs. They need to keep the pipeline stocked."

I don't think Berehowsky will go to NFLD. He's delivered pretty mediocre results. I expect Gilman will bring in a whole new crew and new energy. I am keeping an eye out for Greening potentially to play a Reg Dunlop role for a year or 2.

The fact that Stanford already is established with MLSE no doubt greased the skids for this deal. I think there are a few franchises that have been gradually transforming the ECHL into legitimate AA systems (Pittsburgh, Islanders, Toronto etc.), but there is a next stage underway with the Rangers/Maine and now Toronto/Nfld. Gilman is going to play a big part.

So I respectfully continue to disagree with you. This will be "something new."

 

[Growler]

Whatever term you use, I'm not sure how much more Dubas and the Leafs could have used the ECHL. While the Solar Bears might have been mediocre, plenty of the depth players from the Marlies either came from the ECHL or developed there over the years. Whether it was to find players or to develop, Dubas used that league quite a bit and again, expecting for Gilman to be even more active there seems like a big stretch.

It's the ECHL for a reason. I get that you're probably super excited to have a pro team around, especially one tied to the Leafs, but it's not going to be something new.

Organisations change affiliations with teams all the time. St Johns has probably changed affiliations a handful of times in the last couple decades. It happens often. It was reported about a year or two ago that the Leafs wanted to get their own ECHL team, or at least change affiliations. And here we are.

As of July 5, 2018, 14 AHL contracts are signed + the goalie McAdam acquired from NYI on an NHL deal and who played in the ECHL last year. Most of these 15 players are obviously going to the Rock given that the Marlies are already stacked.

By this time last year, only 6 AHL contracts were signed - that number eventually became 15 by September.

As a new franchise, the Growlers do not retain any rights to any hockey players unlike any other ECHL franchise.

In fun, Care to revisit your prediction?

 

[Growler]

...aaaaaaand the Marlies have just now already set an AHL record for # of contracts signed (17) -- and it is only July 5th.