Injury Report: Mantha

[Bondurant]

Leafs fans for you. I lost brain cells reading the Muzzin/Mantha discussion on the main board.

Leafs fans are the Yankees fans of the NHL. At least on social media, forums and Reddit. An army of peons that will troll and down vote even vanilla factual statements. Lots of "I'm 15 and hate daddy" rage going on.

 

[Bench]

Leafs fans are the Yankees fans of the NHL. At least on social media, forums and Reddit. An army of peons that will troll and down vote even vanilla factual statements. Lots of "I'm 15 and hate daddy" rage going on.

See also: Dallas Cowboys.

 

[MBH]

It's changed because som GMs lack the balls to keep their RFAs in line.

Sweeney also did a good job with McAvoy.

Has very little to do with that and more to do with GMs investing rationally.
21-28 are a players' best years. So that's when GMs are paying them.

If you can get a deal, great. And sometimes you can when you're a team like the Bruins - a good team making the case to youngsters that they'll need to take less to keep the winning team together.

McAvoy wasn't signed that cheap. It's a three year deal.

 

[Ezekial]

Yea but there's such thing as over-investment. Considering that until they are 27 of that 21-28 year old prime their only right is to sit out. You can invest in youth and still realize that they are restricted free agents. Sure you don't want to be a stingy piece of shit and gain that reputation, but I also don't want my GM to have the reputation of giving into every whim when negotiating.

 

[FMichael]

Has very little to do with that and more to do with GMs investing rationally.
21-28 are a players' best years. So that's when GMs are paying them.

If you can get a deal, great. And sometimes you can when you're a team like the Bruins - a good team making the case to youngsters that they'll need to take less to keep the winning team together.

McAvoy wasn't signed that cheap. It's a three year deal.

I find that too many GMs succumb to RFA/agent demands who haven't proven much, and some have only 3 seasons under their belt...I wouldn't see that as a rational investment when considering that they may have little $$$ left in cap space to add depth...For example I doubt the Leafs will win the Cup anytime soon.

As for McAvoy - he's getting a sizeable raise (which he's earned), and with the 3 years it'll buy Sweeney some time when other contracts are done, or the player retires, and there'll be a new CBA, and US tv deal...Chances are it'll both benefit the team, and the player...Now that to me is a win-win situation, and a smart investment albeit a bridge deal.

I have faith in Yzerman concerning Mantha/Bert/AA...I doubt we'll see anything excessive.

 

[FMichael]

Yea but there's such thing as over-investment. Considering the until they are 27 of that 21-28 year old prime their only right is to sit out. You can invest in youth and still realize that they are restricted free agents. Sure you don't want to be a stingy piece of **** and gain that reputation, but I also don't want my GM to have the reputation of giving in every whim when negotiating.

Agreed.

Wise GMs work out a deal with their RFAs - a jump in pay, but nothing crazy.

Dubas screwed the pooch, and even Flyers GM Fletcher made a bad move when trading for, and signing Kevin Hayes to that albatross of a deal.

 

[avssuc]

I don't know anything other than what I saw on the replays. It looked like his shoulder took most of the energy. His head made contact too, but after the shoulder. I just kind of cringed watching all that weight land on that shoulder.

According to rumors, he’s avoided concussion protocol and he left Saturday night with his arm in a sling. The team hasn’t said anything specific.

Mlive reported on it, seems like you were correct:

Red Wings’ Anthony Mantha out at least a week

 

[MBH]

I find that too many GMs succumb to RFA/agent demands who haven't proven much, and some have only 3 seasons under their belt...I wouldn't see that as a rational investment when considering that they may have little $$$ left in cap space to add depth...For example I doubt the Leafs will win the Cup anytime soon.

As for McAvoy - he's getting a sizeable raise (which he's earned), and with the 3 years it'll buy Sweeney some time when other contracts are done, or the player retires, and there'll be a new CBA, and US tv deal...Chances are it'll both benefit the team, and the player...Now that to me is a win-win situation, and a smart investment albeit a bridge deal.

I have faith in Yzerman concerning Mantha/Bert/AA...I doubt we'll see anything excessive.

Mantha/Bert/AA aren't in the same boat, IMO. They're going on contract 3. None are elite.

 

[Henkka]

Leafs. I've always hated them. Now I'm gonna hate even more.

 

[MBH]

Leafs fans are the Yankees fans of the NHL. At least on social media, forums and Reddit. An army of peons that will troll and down vote even vanilla factual statements. Lots of "I'm 15 and hate daddy" rage going on.

The only thing that makes Leafs fans different from anyone else is the sheer number of them. So that gives them an echo chamber wherever they go.
Echo chambers breed stupidity.

 

[Mlotek]

Mantha/Bert/AA aren't in the same boat, IMO. They're going on contract 3. None are elite.

True, but neither was Ryan Callahan. Keep in mind Yzerman signed that 6x6 deal. Must have been all those wonderful 'intangibles'.

For Mantha a comparable would be Evander Kane who never hit 60 points in his career and got a 7x7.

All 3 are arbitration eligible. Even if an arbitrator grants a 1 year deal, its largely based on comparison of similar players in terms of output and age.


Sure each side will attempt to sway the arbitrator, but the biggest factor would be 'comparables'.

 

[MBH]

True, but neither was Ryan Callahan. Keep in mind Yzerman signed that 6x6 deal. Must have been all those wonderful 'intangibles'.

For Mantha a comparable would be Evander Kane who never hit 60 points in his career and got a 7x7.

All 3 are arbitration eligible. Even if an arbitrator grants a 1 year deal, its largely based on comparison of similar players in terms of output and age.


Sure each side will attempt to sway the arbitrator, but the biggest factor would be 'comparables'.

Man, I sure hope we do better than Evander's contract. And, truthfully, Evander is more skilled than Mantha.
Plus, Evander was about to hit UFA. Mantha has what? 2 years left of RFA?

Also, in terms of production,
Kane had a 29 and 28 and 30 goal season on his resume.

Mantha has hit 24 and 25.

So I'm not sure where Mantha is going to land.

 

[avssuc]

I don't know anything other than what I saw on the replays. It looked like his shoulder took most of the energy. His head made contact too, but after the shoulder. I just kind of cringed watching all that weight land on that shoulder.

3:36 in, we see some history the Wings have with Muzzin. Not sure this is the right thread, just wanted to share with you.

 

[Mlotek]

3:36 in, we see some history the Wings have with Muzzin. Not sure this is the right thread, just wanted to share with you.

I can see why Muzzin didn't wanna fight.

Also just looked up his fight card, his other NHL fight ain't much better than the Jensen.

Jake Muzzin

 

[FMichael]

Mantha/Bert/AA aren't in the same boat, IMO. They're going on contract 3. None are elite.

Agreed.

Those 3 (especially AA) shouldn't see a big pay raise.

 

[Mlotek]

Agreed.

Those 3 (especially AA) shouldn't see a big pay raise.

How cheap do you think AA would sign?

Is that estimate with or without arbitration?

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

How cheap do you think AA would sign?

Is that estimate with or without arbitration?

2-3 years between 3.2 and 4 million would be on par with my expectations. Definitely towards the back end of that curve if he doesn’t break out of his slump this year.

 

[FMichael]

How cheap do you think AA would sign?

Is that estimate with or without arbitration?

I think Nightmare on Helm St post below seems about right without arbitration...With arbitration - really no clue since it's likely to be a 1 year deal for maybe a slight raise, but then again as you mentioned earlier - amongst his peers in the league that raise could be $4 plus million.

2-3 years between 3.2 and 4 million would be on par with my expectations. Definitely towards the back end of that curve if he doesn’t break out of his slump this year.

This seems very reasonable for AA...I could see Bert signing a 4 to 6 year deal for about the same, or slightly more $$$...Again - there's a lot of hockey left in this season, and their production could jump significantly.

 

[Gniwder]

I think Nightmare on Helm St post below seems about right without arbitration...With arbitration - really no clue since it's likely to be a 1 year deal for maybe a slight raise, but then again as you mentioned earlier - amongst his peers in the league that raise could be $4 plus million.


This seems very reasonable for AA...I could see Bert signing a 4 to 6 year deal for about the same, or slightly more $$$...Again - there's a lot of hockey left in this season, and their production could jump significantly.

All depends on how the rest of this season pans out, but if he winds up with +/- anywhere close to the record, then he isn't getting jack in arbitration.

At this rate, I'd offer up 2 years at current salary. That of course could change if he lights it up the second half.

 

[RedMenace]

The only thing that makes Leafs fans different from anyone else is the sheer number of them. So that gives them an echo chamber wherever they go.
Echo chambers breed stupidity.

Mob mentality.

They're a bunch of whiny, keyboard warrior pansies, and the more of them that exist, the worse it is for everyone.

I could cite some real world analogues, but I won't, because I don't care enough. If Leafs fans want to spurt their self-imposed superiority over everyone then lose in the 1st round of the playoffs again, let them. Let them believe the hockey world revolves around them, while the Stanley Cup passes them by for the 70th year.

 

[MBH]

Mob mentality.

They're a bunch of whiny, keyboard warrior pansies, and the more of them that exist, the worse it is for everyone.

I could cite some real world analogues, but I won't, because I don't care enough. If Leafs fans want to spurt their self-imposed superiority over everyone then lose in the 1st round of the playoffs again, let them. Let them believe the hockey world revolves around them, while the Stanley Cup passes them by for the 70th year.

If you believe the typical Leafs fan is much different than the typical Wings fan, Habs fan or Bruins fan, I don't know what to tell you.
Typical fan thinking - believing that somehow fans of another team are inferior or worse or more like to be "keyboard warrior pansies."

 

[RedMenace]

If you believe the typical Leafs fan is much different than the typical Wings fan, Habs fan or Bruins fan, I don't know what to tell you.
Typical fan thinking - believing that somehow fans of another team are inferior or worse or more like to be "keyboard warrior pansies."

The difference is sheer numbers. That's what a "mob mentality" is: perceived strength in numbers.

I can't speak for the "typical" Wings fan, but when I go out to watch a game, I don't challenge people to fights and act like a common monkey. I don't think the Wings are the end-all, be-all of sports franchises. I understand that there are up years and down years, and ultimately, I have zero interest in what happens other than 3rd party experiences. If a team bests the Wings, f***ing awesome, more power to you. I have zero control over the roster, the coaching, and ultimately, what happens on the ice.

If I were playing for the Wings, I might think differently. If I were insane, I might think differently. But I know it's a sport that I have nothing to do with, and that all I can do is cheer and hope.

Anything after that is pointless; if you think you can change things by whinging on a message board, you might want to check yourself.

 

[GreatGordie9]

The difference is sheer numbers. That's what a "mob mentality" is: perceived strength in numbers.

I can't speak for the "typical" Wings fan, but when I go out to watch a game, I don't challenge people to fights and act like a common monkey. I don't think the Wings are the end-all, be-all of sports franchises. I understand that there are up years and down years, and ultimately, I have zero interest in what happens other than 3rd party experiences. If a team bests the Wings, ****ing awesome, more power to you. I have zero control over the roster, the coaching, and ultimately, what happens on the ice.

If I were playing for the Wings, I might think differently. If I were insane, I might think differently. But I know it's a sport that I have nothing to do with, and that all I can do is cheer and hope.

Anything after that is pointless; if you think you can change things by whinging on a message board, you might want to check yourself.

Mantha is gone minimum 4 weeks according to Blashill.

 

[redwings8831]

 

[GreatGordie9]

So much for Anthony's 30-40 goal season.