Injury Report: Mantha

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
But there is a logical reason. On average, higher draft picks will yield better players. On average, finishing lower in the standings will get you a higher draft pick, and a better player.

The idea behind the lottery is solid.... you don't want teams intentionally losing for that first overall, but I don't think it has really resulted in any meaningful change to the draft. You're still better off finishing as low as possible in the standings. Thus, the incentive to tank remains.
I think you have to look at it in terms of timeline. Look at it over say a 5 year period.

If your team has a solid backbone and you're competing every year but you have an off year and tank on purpose to lose as much as possible, chances are you'll get a 4th and be back in the hunt again next year.

If your team, like ours, is legitimately depleted, they will be bad for a few years without intentionally losing any games. The draft then supports their turnaround over a 5 year period with something like 6th, 6th, 4th, 4th, 6th. No luck needed here, just years of solid pretty high picks, that a good team with good development and good asset management can turn into a new core.

Then the franchise superstar lottery picks are sprinkled in somewhat randomly. They have to go somewhere, and there are 32 teams, and the NHL wants all 32 to experience some reasonable level of stardom in the long, long run, so everyone has a shot as long as they're not currently competing for the next Cup.
 

Mlotek

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
921
346
South of US Border
So there's no logical reason to support tanking (especially for those of us who actually enjoy watching our favorite team play) yet there's still some brainless idiots who spout 'tank tank tank!'

lol

It was worked in the past for a few teams which had great success with their high picks.

Pittsburgh

2006 - Staal #2
2005 - Crosby #1
2004 - Malkin #2
2003 - Fleury #1
2002 - Whitney #5
Got 3 cups out of it.

No way Chicago could have won their cups without Kane/Toews who went #1 and #3 in their drafts.

Washington has been built around the duo of Ovechkin/Backstrom (1/4).

Toronto

2012 - Reilly - #5
2014 - Nylander - #8
2015 - Marner - #4
2016 - Matthews - #1

Currently one of the top teams that should be competing with cups especially with guys like Tavares and Andersen boosting the squad.

Just don't look at teams like Edmonton, Colorado, and Buffalo who despite all their high picks still aren't putting things together to be real contenders. Neither does Florida come to think about it, although much of that was management blowing up the team couple years ago


An older but pretty well documented example below. TSN documentary about Pittsburgh tank for Lemieux.



There is some logic, its definitely not fun. The biggest caviat, there IS NO GUARANTEE of success.
 

2xJack

Registered User
Apr 19, 2019
203
117
He may be medically clear to play, but conditioning could be an issue. Mantha was unable to get any exercise for most of the time he's missed. I don't know if he plays yet. If the team weren't absolutely terrible I think it may even be possible for him to go to GR for a tune up game or two. But there's really no point in our situation.
 

ThankGord

Registered User
Jul 11, 2018
1,920
2,704
GR, MI
We'd have to make a roster move to let Mantha off of IR, that's probably why Yzerman needs to be involved.
 

Hammettf2b

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Jul 9, 2012
22,489
4,610
So California
Looks like Mantha and AA will be back. I would like to see the following...

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
AA-Flip-Fabbri
Perlini-Helm-Zadina
Abby-Glendening-Nielsen
 

Konnan511

#RetireHronek17
Sponsor
Jul 29, 2008
9,557
3,244
Sarasota, FL
Looks like Mantha and AA will be back. I would like to see the following...

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
AA-Flip-Fabbri
Perlini-Helm-Zadina
Abby-Glendening-Nielsen
#RedWings lines at practice: Bertuzzi-Nielsen-Fabbri (Abdelkader working in) Mantha-Filppula-Zadina Athanasiou-Glendening-Helm Perlini-Ehn-Erne Larkin is not practicing. Has been sick last two days but played last night.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,028
1,164
Norway
Looks like Mantha and AA will be back. I would like to see the following...

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
AA-Flip-Fabbri
Perlini-Helm-Zadina
Abby-Glendening-Nielsen

That is the most expensive and one of the worst lines in the league. Strange to think.

I first did not like your 3rd line, but then maybe it should be tried.
Though Zadina and Fabbri should play together.
 

MBH

Players Play
Jul 20, 2019
13,497
7,298
SE Michigan
redwingsnow.com
It was worked in the past for a few teams which had great success with their high picks.

Pittsburgh

2006 - Staal #2
2005 - Crosby #1
2004 - Malkin #2
2003 - Fleury #1
2002 - Whitney #5
Got 3 cups out of it.

No way Chicago could have won their cups without Kane/Toews who went #1 and #3 in their drafts.

Washington has been built around the duo of Ovechkin/Backstrom (1/4).

Toronto

2012 - Reilly - #5
2014 - Nylander - #8
2015 - Marner - #4
2016 - Matthews - #1

Currently one of the top teams that should be competing with cups especially with guys like Tavares and Andersen boosting the squad.

Just don't look at teams like Edmonton, Colorado, and Buffalo who despite all their high picks still aren't putting things together to be real contenders. Neither does Florida come to think about it, although much of that was management blowing up the team couple years ago


An older but pretty well documented example below. TSN documentary about Pittsburgh tank for Lemieux.



There is some logic, its definitely not fun. The biggest caviat, there IS NO GUARANTEE of success.


The main issue here is that thanks to all the whining and bellyaching about the Oilers getting all the top picks, the NHL went to a lottery.
So... who are the teams since 2013 who've successfully tanked their way to greatness?
Toronto?
Here are the top 3 picks since 2013 - the first lottery.
Mackinnon - went to round 2 once.
Barkov - One playoff series
Drouin - One long playoff run, but while he was good, they were already a great team before he got there.
Ekblad - One playoff series
Reinhart - ZERO playoff games
Draisaitl - One trip to round 2
McDavid - one trip to round 2
Eichel - Zero playoff games
Strome - zero playoff games
Matthews - Never been beyond round 1
Laine - Conference finals. Round one.
Dubois - Round 1 and Round 2
Hischier - one playoff series
Patrick - One playoff series
Heiskanen - Went to round 2
Dahlin - no playoffs
Svechnikov - Went to conference finals
Kotkaniemi - no playoffs.
----
So far, nobody picked in the top 3 of the NHL draft in the lottery era has been to the SCF, let alone won the cup.
It's hard to say there's a reliably proven way to tank anymore.
Yeah, you need to lose and you need high picks. But the odds are against you getting a top 3 pick.
And even if you do, does it help you?

Crosby was in the Stanley Cup finals within three years of his draft
Patrick Kane won the cup 3 years after his draft. Toews 4 years.
Doughty won the cup 4 years after being drafted.

Why isn't that happening anymore?
 

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