Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by DarkHorse, Oct 28, 2003.
Just heard that Moe Mantha may have left USA Hockey. Anyone hear anything on this?
Yes he did, he resigned. Lou Vairo has taken over as the interim coach of the U-18 team and will oversee the NTDP temporarily.
Here's a link:
Isn't he the second coach to leave that program for the OHL? Do you think it's for the money or is it the program itself? Maybe he didn't like the coaching style that USA Hockey insisted upon. This will definitely make parents think twice about sending their sons there. Who knows if the program will continue for much longer anyway. There have been many critics about USA Hockey spending so much money to develop only 40 players. Time will tell.
Wow, is this for real, he took the job with Saginaw?
If I were as rich as this guy is a hypocrite, I'd be a multi-millionaire.
For years this guy has been preaching against Americans leaving to play in the OHL, but he bails himself....what a piece of work!
It is true, Link
He accepted an INTERIM position, didn't take much for him to jump ship.
No real surprise hear folks. Mantha took a page out of Jeff Jackson's handbook. Rip the OHL in public while have a burning secret desire to coach in the OHL.
The NTDP is becoming a first class joke!
I wouldn't go that far. The program clearly has some problems, but there's no denying that it has produced some top quality talent and has had success at the international level. I'll be interested to see where the NTDP goes from here.
I wouldn't go that far either.
I don't know how much top quality talent it has "produced". If there were no program, and all of those players in the program had gone major junior, would any fewer of them been drafted? I doubt it.
As for international success, the NTDP was originally established to improve the U.S.'s standing at the WJC. Number of medals won by the U.S. since that time: zero. Yes, the U.S. won the World U-18 two years ago - but its key players (Parise, Hirsch and O'Sullivan) were ringers who weren't even in the program. And last year, the U.S. finished out of the medals in a tournament won by a bunch of Canadian CHLers who didn't make the playoffs, and were thrown togther a week before the tournament.
The bottom line: the millions being spent every year on a program of 40 kids would probably be better spent elsewhere.
The latter team was not the NDTP team but another team also thrown together a week before the tournament, and while a couple of guys on the U18 team that won gold were ringers, the vast majority of the team were NDTP guys.
Mantha leaving is good. VOB, you're an idiot--the US hasn't had wild success at the international level but it's better than before, and the NDTP attracts a lot of extremely talented kids, all of whom end up at DI colleges and most of whom get drafted, some very high. It's not perfect, but I think its record speaks well.
I don't know if we are in agreement or not.
The U.S. team that won gold two years ago was the NTDP team that played together all year. All the NTDP players who were healthy were on the team, and it was coached by the NTDP coaches. The team is identified in all USA Hockey materials and website as the U-18 team from the NTDP. However, the fact is they would NOT have won without taking ringers from prep school and the CHL.
Again, for the millions being spent, I don't think its record speaks well at all. No WJC medals is the most glaring. And like I said before, I think the vast majority of NDTP kids who go to D1 colleges and get drafted would have had that anyways, without the program, had they gone to the USHL or CHL.
It's impossible to guess whether the NDTP is developing the kids they have better than the USHL or CHL would. This is the flip side of the argument often heard from CHL partisans that the CHL is way better at development because they have more draft picks. I guess my point in bringing up the scholarships and draft picks is to point out that, development aside, there's a lot of talent in the program. So either it's prestigous enough to attract it or excellent at developing it.
I could easily make the statement that the US U-18 gold medal team wouldn't have won that tournament as a thrown-together bunch of players. It's hard to tell.
The reason the NDTP was originally formed was to combat a talent deficit. The USA just doesn't have as many talented hockey players as Russia or Canada--that's not changing and I don't think it's fair to blame the NDTP for that.
The program would be a joke if it was filled with mediocre prospects and basically every top-end US guy chose some other route. Some do, no doubt, but there's obviously some draw to the program.
Ah, anyway. The program needs a prestigous coach. Someone from the college ranks. It needs to find someone loyal to it. It could do a better job of keeping top talent. But I'd give it a passing grade.
I feel the money sent to the NTDP would be better spent on the US junior leagues. It would benifit more players than just the 40 guys who would be top-end players anyway.
If I am an idiot Funkyloser, then so was Herb Brooks who emphatically stated that the program was a huge money drain that was being spent on only 40 kids who had the talent to land D-1 scholarships without the benefit of the program in the first place.
The official reason rof the formation of the NTDP was to win gold medals for the U.S. in international competition. It has thus far been failure in this regard.
The real reason it was formed was to halt the flow of top end talent to the Major Junior ranks. Some would argue that it has failed to do this as well.
Moe Mantha's leaving is only one in a string of setbacks the program has suffered since the summer. If the program cannot keep its head coach and head of hockey operations while losing some very high end talent to the CHL, the future of the program must be put on the table and a decision must be made on its viability.
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