Managerial merry Go round part III
- Thread starter Halladay
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While I agree with Seamus that Howe hasn't lost it as a coach, the point you raise about their net spend is an important one, because it touches on Howe's big problem - that his back catalogue of signings is patchy, and this season none of his signings has improved the squad, leaving them vulnerable when regular starters suffer injuries, as well as asking more of his established players when ideally he'd be asking less. The only genuine positive, Wilson, has merely replaced the injured Brooks. Which means that instead of Wilson giving them a plan B if Brooks has an off day or extended slump, plan B has been Jordan Ibe or Groeneveld.
As for the players who've been there since promotion, I'd say it's less a case of going stale than of a fifth season at the highest level being one too far for players of their standard - for instance, Dan Gosling was a bit-part player in the promotion-winning campaign, in line with the general trend of his career up to that point. What's extraordinary is that Howe managed to squeeze enough out of Gosling that for for years he was able to function satisfactorily as what might be described as the number two and a half central midfielder in their depth chart.
Francis, Daniels and Surman are past 30, as is Junior Stanislas. Fraser, King and Callum Wilson are players who carry a threat up to a point but no further. None of these are players you'd want starting every week for a team that aspired to break the 50-point barrier. And in the EPL, if you're not a team that can break the 50-point barrier, you're only a worst case scenario away from a brush with relegation, or worse.
Bournemouth's worst case scenario has come to pass. I think, however, they'd be wise to stick with Howe until the summer, for good or ill.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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The strange thing with the players Bournemouth have bought is that few of them are completely crap. Except Ibe and Solanke they have contributed with something. That in itself is not that bad.
I don't think Gosling is a good example. He is a squad player that gives them energy and he covers a lot of ground. Obviously he shouldn't be a key player for a PL side, but he is serviceable in that role he has. And he suits the style Howe at least used to play.
Surman is hardly on the pitch. Francis and Daniels are experienced defenders that are also playing bit roles. I don't think I have seen Daniels play this season, but last year I thought he was fine. Having him as a backup left back isn't a big issue. I would have taken him at Spurs these days if fit (says more about what Spurs got though).
Fraser was great last season. I remember when King was linked to Spurs and I hated the idea. He has proven me wrong. Obviously not a fantastic PL player, but I would have taken him over someone like Lucas any day. King is actually made for Spurs under Mourinho. Struggled with injuries this season - which has hurt Bournemouth.
I guess that is the curse of almost all the mid-bottom table teams. A couple of injuries and maybe a key player out of form and you are right down in the relegation zone. Everton and West Ham obviously should never be down there with the squads they got, but it doesn't take much these days before you suddenly find yourself in a tough spot.
I am not expert on Bournemouth, but what disappoints me about them is their approach seems to have changed. Very similar to what happened to Spurs under Pochettino. Spurs crushed Bournemouth a couple of times, but you always felt they were going after you. Now it doesn't feel that way (even if they obviously won last year against Spurs for the first time since the 50s or something). Bournemouth has gone from a very exciting "small" team to something very grey. Not very scientific analysis from me of course, but difficult to look past the manager if that is the case. And as with Pochettino Howe got to take some if not a lot of responsibility for how the squad is shaped up. Both in terms of mentality and quality in depth.
I agree with the last sentence. Bournemouth were always going to go down again at some point, so no need to make any rash decisions, but I didn't expect it to happen this way - a team not scoring goals and just playing boring football.
The trouble is, 'not that bad' equals stagnation at best - assuming the existing players don't dip too. If a team can't keep posing opponents new challenges, they become easier to beat.
To give Gosling his due, he missed a lot of time with a hip injury. The trouble is he lacks the passing range to cover any falloff in his physical condition, which is a big problem in a central midfielder. Surman, as you say, is hardly on the pitch. Hitherto, though, he's been good for 15-20 starts a season between injuries. Daniels is out for the season with a knee injury, having suffered a knee injury last season. He's a decent player, but he's never been especially fast or nimble, and I think his body simply isn't quite up to the demands of his role any more. Indeed, Howe has signed a string of younger left backs in the hope of adding greater athleticism - a lack of that quality tends to characterise football league players - without success. So Daniels has stuck around.
I'm not as sold on King as you - I don't think his ability on the ball is good enough, especially his first touch. Fraser I like, but I don't see a truly inventive passer, rather a superb striker of the ball from out wide, and that limits his ceiling. I suspect we've seen the best of him already.
Gecklund
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You said they do it every year. You were told you were wrong. That’s it. Anything else is in your head.
Most of that I consider true (we can discuss the finer details of King's game for hours I guess), but you don't need superstars to be competitive in the lower half of the PL table.
To me Bournemouth do not have any of the "black holes" many of the bottom half teams struggle with. Take Villa. I like that team, but Wesley has been unbelievably bad. He is not scoring and the number of promising plays he ruins is quite astonishing. I would say those kind of issues is more the norm among the bottom half than not. It is one of the reasons these teams are bottom half of course. In my opinion Bournemouth do not have any of those issues. Granted they do not have a Grealish either, but to me there is a lot more potential in that squad than currently shown. If that is the case it has to come back to the manager/coach. Same with Pochettino. It was a time I considered Alli - Kane - Eriksen to be on par with Liverpool's front three. That would be a fairly laughable claim now. Not saying that is only down to the coach, but when it becomes a trend all over the squad then it has to. To me that is what is happening at Bournemouth. 2+2 is no longer 5. And I really like Howe. When Pochettino was talking about "who knows what the future will bring" kind of #¤%" some years ago I thought Howe would have been a good replacement. They were quite similar to me in terms of style. Positive outlook on the game. Obviously now I might have to reevaluate my view on Howe - even if managers as players will go through rough patches of course without necessarily not being "good enough".
I thoroughly agree with your point about mid-table teams not needing superstars, and that Bournemouth hasn't a black hole. However, I think they are one more illustration of the old standby, "show me your central midfield and I'll show you your team". They've been weaker in that department than in previous seasons, and without such a solid platform, you need a Zahaesque one-man band to pick up the slack. Fraser is the nearest they have to such a player, but for me he falls short (and my reservations about Zaha have been stated here before - seeing him contained by Javier Manquillo in the flesh just before Christmas only entrenched my view).
It's certainly legitimate to wonder at Howe's true potential. Even if he hadn't suffered such a tough season, at 42 years of age he needs to find a new challenge soon, or else he stands in danger of being this generation's Alan Curbishley, ossified within modest success. The English have a nasty tendency to continue treating managers as young until they are nigh on 50, whereas so many of the true greats stamp their quality at the elite level well before that age.
Live in the Now
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The league is also much worse than MLS from a player quality standpoint so I don't understand how someone could make judgment based on anything that happens there. Also, if you don't watch it, passing judgment is an even bigger mistake.
There's World Cup winners that got fired from jobs in MLS ffs.
There's World Cup winners that got fired from jobs in MLS ffs.
Gecklund
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Duchene2MacKinnon
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It'll be a long time before Guardiola leaves PSG. He should take United if it comes up.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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Well at least this post shows you to be neutral when it comes to the Manchester clubs. You hate 'em both.
Gecklund
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Duchene2MacKinnon
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He would transfer form your team. Maybe not pretty to watch but would get the job done. Guys like Pogba would either give 110% or play elsewhere.
Gecklund
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Ole is transferring the deadweight out. Just not really transferring good people in....
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Shit... well that would be nice. A top 3 manager as far as developing clubs goes I would say and would be more than a welcomed addition.
But the issue isn't the manager and I can't see Woodward giving him control over transfers.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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Ole is a trash manager, who should leave united asap. Mind you I couldn't careless about united so, I hope they keep him.
Live in the Now
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I would not under any circumstances give any manager control of transfers. If Klopp and Pep don't have that power nobody should have it, and someone asking for it is a sign they've become an egomaniac. I don't know if the story is true so I'm not judging anyone. Can't take that power away from them once they have it. It's also difficult if impossible for a modern manager to scout players the way they need to be scouted. They should be spending time with their team, analyzing the opposition, and taking rests in order to prevent a burnout. It's not a surprise that all the best teams have disposed of the antiquated approach to dealing with those things.
Gecklund
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I mean everyone can see how bad Ed is at transfers.... I’d ask for full control or at least him out before signing.
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