Management Thread - The Beat Goes On

[Bob Long]

Maybe we should have a dedicated topic with the first post being the current overview for the cap situation and have that updated whenever things change. Probably easier as starting anew when there is another "ah we just dump x and y and then we will have gazillions of cap space" post.

thats a good idea. I'd like to see how you came to your conclusions on the cap situation.

 

[Bob Long]

Yikes some recent news from the Twitter verse suggests the teams scouts wanted Pastarnak in 2014 but Benning liked Bleckley and settled for McCann when he was taken.

A lot of teams blew this one. In fairness to all of them, Pasta's numbers were pretty underwhelming in the SEL.

 

[Peter10]

thats a good idea. I'd like to see how you came to your conclusions on the cap situation.

If it helps to have a good reasonable discussion, why not. Let me see if I can set it up.

 

[carrotshirt]

Yikes some recent news from the Twitter verse suggests the teams scouts wanted Pastarnak in 2014 but Benning liked Bleckley and settled for McCann when he was taken.

Didn’t Benning assemble the scouts last year and basically ask them how they missed on Pasta? Doesn’t really align with this report.

 

[xtra]

*mods feel free to merge if you think it goes into another threads area:

this thread is to show your work on how you see the canucks roster/cap management will work out.

as major changes happen the first post will be updated so everyone can quote this and work off the same date:


Information date: July 6 2020

assumptions: all rfa sign 10% min raise; ferland isn’t in ltir; Hughes/petersson bonus is at the full 1.7; we still need to sign a 5th dman ( min 2 mil?)

Forwards
Ericksson - 6 million
Boeser - 5.85 million
Horvat - 5.5million
Jt miller - 5.25
Sutter - 4.38 million
Pearson - 3.75
Rousell - 3 million
Beagle - 3 million
Peterson - .925
Ferland -3.5

RFA
Virtanen (1.375 million)
Motte (1.072 million)
Gaudette (1.008 million)
Mcewen (.932)
Forwards total:

If the 4 RFAs signed their 10% tender our 14 forwards here are 45.54 million

Defence:
Edler - 6 million
Myers - 6 million
Benn - 2 million
Hughes - .917k
RFA
stetcher ( 2.563)

Defence total: if stetcher resigns at his 10% tender our 5 dmen here are at 17.48 million

Goalies:
Demko: 1.05 million
Dipietro .812

Goalies: 1.862


Dead cap: 8.05 million
Sven - 2.29 million
Spooner - 1.03 million
Luongo - 3.03 million
Hughes/pettersson bonus(to be confirmed) - 1.7 million


Total: 74.932 million
Forwards: 45.54 million (14 forwards)
Defense: 17.48 million (5 dmen)
Goalies: 1.862 million (2 goalies)
Dead cap: 8.05 million


Current roster (ignore positions/lines)
Miller - pettersson - boeser
Ericksson- horvat-Pearson
Rousell - sutter - fearland
Virtanen-beagle- motte

Edler-Myers
Hughes-benn
Stetcher - ?????

Demko
Dipietro


UFAS/unsigned
Markstrom
Tanev
Toffoli
Traymkin

 

[xtra]

*mods feel free to merge if you think it goes into another threads area:

this thread is to show your work on how you see the canucks roster/cap management will work out.

as major changes happen the first post will be updated so everyone can quote this and work off the same date:


Information date: July 6 2020

assumptions: all rfa sign 10% min raise; ferland isn’t in ltir; Hughes/petersson bonus is at the full 1.7; we still need to sign a 5th dman ( min 2 mil?)

Forwards
Ericksson - 6 million
Boeser - 5.85 million
Horvat - 5.5million
Jt miller - 5.25
Sutter - 4.38 million
Pearson - 3.75
Rousell - 3 million
Beagle - 3 million
Peterson - .925
Ferland -3.5

RFA
Virtanen (1.375 million)
Motte (1.072 million)
Gaudette (1.008 million)
Mcewen (.932)
Forwards total:

If the 4 RFAs signed their 10% tender our 14 forwards here are 45.54 million

Defence:
Edler - 6 million
Myers - 6 million
Benn - 2 million
Hughes - .917k
RFA
stetcher ( 2.563)

Defence total: if stetcher resigns at his 10% tender our 5 dmen here are at 17.48 million

Goalies:
Demko: 1.05 million
Dipietro .812

Goalies: 1.862


Dead cap: 8.05 million
Sven - 2.29 million
Spooner - 1.03 million
Luongo - 3.03 million
Hughes/pettersson bonus(to be confirmed) - 1.7 million


Total: 74.932 million
Forwards: 45.54 million (14 forwards)
Defense: 17.48 million (5 dmen)
Goalies: 1.862 million (2 goalies)
Dead cap: 8.05 million


Current roster (ignore positions/lines)
Miller - pettersson - boeser
Ericksson- horvat-Pearson
Rousell - sutter - fearland
Virtanen-beagle- motte

Edler-Myers
Hughes-benn
Stetcher - ?????

Demko
Dipietro


UFAS/unsigned
Markstrom
Tanev
Toffoli
Traymkin

Well that didn’t last long as it’s own thread lol....guess we quote it from here and add updated version in the management thread...though i has thought it woudl be easier for people to say (refer to post 7 in canucks cap management) than quoting it each time here

 

[Peter10]

Well that didn’t last long as it’s own thread lol....guess we quote it from here and add updated version in the management thread...though i has thought it woudl be easier for people to say (refer to post 7 in canucks cap management) than quoting it each time here

Dont really understand why this doesnt deserve its own thread but oh well...

Here is what I had (hadnt posted it yet)


----------


Details taken from Capfriendly


FORWARDS (10)
Right wing: Brock Boeser ($5,875,000) - Brandon Sutter ($4,375,000)
Centre: Bo Horvat ($5,500,000) - J.T. Miller ($5,250,000) - Jay Beagle ($3,000,000) - Elias Pettersson ($925,000)
Left wing: Loui Eriksson ($6,000,000) - Tanner Pearson ($3,750,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000) - Antoine Roussel ($3,000,000)

DEFENSE (4)
Right: Tyler Myers ($6,000,000)
Left: Alexander Edler ($6,000,000) - Jordie Benn ($2,000,000) - Quinn Hughes ($916,667)

GOALTENDER (1)
Thatcher Demko ($1,050,000)

AHL BURIED (1)
Sven Baertschi ($2,291,666)

BUYOUTS (1)
Ryan Spooner ($1,033,333)

Carryover Performance Bonus (2)
Elias Pettersson ($850,000) - potentially another $2m B Bonus, if top 5 in Hart or Selke voting; top 3 in Byng voting, elected into 1st or 2nd All-Star team
Quinn Hughes ($850,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 15
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $65,199,872
Cap Space: $16,300,128


Notable RFAs (Qualifying offer)
Adam Gaudette ($874,125)
Zack McEwen ($874,125)
Tyler Motte ($1,000,000)
Troy Stecher ($2,325,000)
Jake Virtanen ($1,400,000)

Notable UFAs (previous salary)
Josh Leivo ($1,500,000)
Jacob Markstrom ($3,666,667)
Chris Tanev ($4,450,000)
Tyler Toffoli ($4,600,00)
Oscar Fantenberg ($850,00)


Cap space assumed all RFA above sign their QO: $9,826,878
Cap space assumed all RFA signed + Markstrom @6m/y + Fantenberg @850k/y : $2,976,878

The above would give the below roster (random lines)

Miller- Pettersson - Boeser
Eriksson - Horvat - Virtanen
Pearson - Gaudette - Sutter
Roussel - Beagle - Ferland
Motte, McEwan

Hughes - Myers
Edler - Stecher
Fantenberg - Benn

Markstrom
Demko

Obviously could demote Motte/McEwan to bring in a 7th defenseman. With more realistic new contracts to Virtanen, Gaudette the cap space would most likely be pretty much gone.

 

[Bob Long]

If it helps to have a good reasonable discussion, why not. Let me see if I can set it up.

great! thanks for doing that. Maybe you'll turn me

 

[nowhereman]

Yikes some recent news from the Twitter verse suggests the teams scouts wanted Pastarnak in 2014 but Benning liked Bleckley and settled for McCann when he was taken.

Apparently, the Penguins offered up a package of Crosby and Malkin for the 2nd round pick that was eventually used to pry Linden Vey out of Los Angeles. But Benning, in his infinite stupidity, passed. I guess we can file that one away with the top 10 pick that was offered up for 36 year old Ryan Miller or the fact that every single decent draft pick the Canuck have was made by Brackett in spite of Benning.

I mean, why wouldn't we trust all these "insider" rumors? They've never been wrong before!

 

[Fatass]

Apparently, the Penguins offered up a package of Crosby and Malkin for the 2nd round pick that was eventually used to pry Linden Vey out of Los Angeles. But Benning, in his infinite stupidity, passed. I guess we can file that one away with the top 10 pick that was offered up for 36 year old Ryan Miller or the fact that every single decent draft pick the Canuck have was made by Brackett in spite of Benning.

I mean, why wouldn't we trust all these "insider" rumors? They've never been wrong before!

This is one scenario where I think logic defends Benning. He just came from Boston, where he would be familiar with their draft list (and likely helped along the way with too) so if anything he’d be pushing for Pasta, no?

 

[carrotshirt]

Vancouver Canucks: Scouts ripped for missing out on David Pastrnak

 

[Bob Long]

Vancouver Canucks: Scouts ripped for missing out on David Pastrnak

this is why I don't put much stock in Vancouver media twitter reports.

 

[y2kcanucks]

A lot of teams blew this one. In fairness to all of them, Pasta's numbers were pretty underwhelming in the SEL.

But the Canucks scouts didn't blow this one. Jim Benning blew this by ignoring his scouts.

The 2014 draft could have landed us Larkin and Pastrnak if we listened to our scouts. Instead Benning got us Virtanen and McCann. Who was calling Benning a super scout again? Who was praising him for his drafting? If not for Linden overruling him in 2017 we wouldn't have Pettersson either. But hey, now that Benning and Weisbrod have pushed out a lot of smart people from the organization maybe they can finally be allowed to draft more busts in peace.

 

[datboichoi]

Apparently, the Penguins offered up a package of Crosby and Malkin for the 2nd round pick that was eventually used to pry Linden Vey out of Los Angeles. But Benning, in his infinite stupidity, passed. I guess we can file that one away with the top 10 pick that was offered up for 36 year old Ryan Miller or the fact that every single decent draft pick the Canuck have was made by Brackett in spite of Benning.

I mean, why wouldn't we trust all these "insider" rumors? They've never been wrong before!

I’ll take the word of an accredited journalist thank you very much, some people have a really hard time accepting reality.

 

[nowhereman]

I’ll take the word of an accredited journalist thank you very much, some people have a really hard time accepting reality.

Didn't James Cybulski and John Shannon, also accredited journalists, report that Benning held a meeting to criticize Thomas Gradin and his European scouting staff for missing on the pick?


Who do we believe here?

I think these conflicting accounts should be enough to bring into question all of these supposed "insider reports". But it won't be; certainly not around these parts. I mean, as you point out, people believe what they want to believe...

 

[Bob Long]

But the Canucks scouts didn't blow this one. Jim Benning blew this by ignoring his scouts.

The 2014 draft could have landed us Larkin and Pastrnak if we listened to our scouts. Instead Benning got us Virtanen and McCann. Who was calling Benning a super scout again? Who was praising him for his drafting? If not for Linden overruling him in 2017 we wouldn't have Pettersson either. But hey, now that Benning and Weisbrod have pushed out a lot of smart people from the organization maybe they can finally be allowed to draft more busts in peace.

no thats what Tweety guy 1 said. Tweety guy 2 said something else.

 

[F A N]

It was Patrick Johnston on the Area51 podcast, somewhere at the 33-ish minute mark. Have to listen closely though, he just mentions like it was common knowledge.

That 2014 draft is legendary. So much has been reported about that draft. We've heard that Benning overruled his scouts, Canucks' European scouts wanted Nylander and the North American scouts wanted Ehlers, Gilman thought Virtanen had gamebreaking talent, but the Canucks drafted Virtanen. With the second pick Benning wanted Bleakley, the Canucks scouts wanted Pastrnak, but hey the Canucks "settled" on McCann instead, and Benning got mad at Gradin and his European scouts for missing out on Pastrnak.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Didn't James Cybulski and John Shannon, also accredited journalists, report that Benning held a meeting to criticize Thomas Gradin and his European scouting staff for missing on the pick?


Who do we believe here?

I think these conflicting accounts should be enough to bring into question all of these supposed "insider reports". But it won't be; certainly not around these parts. I mean, as you point out, people believe what they want to believe...

No, people believe sourced information, or should. These reports are both sourced so it’s a coin flip. For intel that is sourced that does not conflict, you have to go with it.

It’s only when things are not sourced and the reporter is purely speculating that you can call the entire opinion into question.

If more people understand the difference, conversations on here would definitely increase in quality. It’s that some people don’t understand the difference, or refuse to understand, that the conversation gets bogged down by subjectivity.

 

[datboichoi]

Didn't James Cybulski and John Shannon, also accredited journalists, report that Benning held a meeting to criticize Thomas Gradin and his European scouting staff for missing on the pick?


Who do we believe here?

I think these conflicting accounts should be enough to bring into question all of these supposed "insider reports". But it won't be; certainly not around these parts. I mean, as you point out, people believe what they want to believe...

The same John Shannon that stated at the end of the 2019 season that Loui Eriksson was revitalized in Vancouver that season?

Patrick Johnson is one of the best sources for Canucks related news right now, I’ll take his word over an unemployed east coast reporters.

 

[vancityluongo]

Although I highly trust PJ, it seems weird that it would have been reported before that the scouts missed Pastrnak, Benning's former team (which he left a month or so prior) ended up taking Pastrnak, but now the scouts wanted Pastrnak ,and Benning took the guy he wanted but then traded a year and a half later? And why is this only being reported now - you'd think someone like Botch would've dug this up years ago if it was actually true.

I've long believed that Benning moved Virtanen up the list, and for the most part just sat back for the rest of the draft. I'm pretty sure McCann would've been a Dave Gagner recommendation - he wasn't the head scout, but had quite a bit of clout in the organization under Gillis, along with Crawford. And we know that Benning completely deferred the Tryamkin pick to the scouts. Unless he specifically wanted to have insight on just the first rounders? But that feels a) a little too convenient and b) irrelevant, because McCann was actually a pretty good pick.

So even if this is true, it is genuinely hindsight. This isn't a Tkachuk over Juolevi situation. Nothing about Pastrnak at the time indicated he'd be a superstar. This was a 24th overall pick. Who knows, maybe Bleackley would have been a superstar if he was in the Bruins organization and gifted a spot next to Marchand and Bergeron.

It's a funny dunk on the "Benning is a scouting GOD" crowd that thinks that he scoured through some backwater Swedish towns to extract Elias Pettersson out of nowhere... but for the purposes of reasonable discussion, I don't think it matters.

 

[nowhereman]

No, people believe sourced information, or should. These reports are both sourced so it’s a coin flip. For intel that is sourced that does not conflict, you have to go with it.

It’s only when things are not sourced and the reporter is purely speculating that you can call the entire opinion into question.

If more people understand the difference, conversations on here would definitely increase in quality. It’s that some people don’t understand the difference, or refuse to understand, that the conversation gets bogged down by subjectivity.

Really?

I'm sorry but facts are not a "coin flip". These are two "sourced" reports, from two reputable media members, that are in direct conflict with one another. Someone here is clearly, undeniable wrong. Hell, maybe neither of these reports are accurate. But you don't just pick the one that fits your narrative and "go with it", the same way you don't just accept uncontested reports as fact. This is clear evidence that EVERY "sourced report" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

The whole agenda-driven Benning/Brackett war is mired by hurt feelings and power struggles. I don't think you can trust much of anything that comes out of this type of situation, since the "truth" is usually relative to whose side you're talking to.

 

[xtra]

Although I highly trust PJ, it seems weird that it would have been reported before that the scouts missed Pastrnak, Benning's former team (which he left a month or so prior) ended up taking Pastrnak, but now the scouts wanted Pastrnak ,and Benning took the guy he wanted but then traded a year and a half later? And why is this only being reported now - you'd think someone like Botch would've dug this up years ago if it was actually true.

I've long believed that Benning moved Virtanen up the list, and for the most part just sat back for the rest of the draft. I'm pretty sure McCann would've been a Dave Gagner recommendation - he wasn't the head scout, but had quite a bit of clout in the organization under Gillis, along with Crawford.

could easily be that the precieved attitude problems McCann had soured benning on the pick after being made; or that he overvalued gudbrandson so much he thought a highly valuable first rounder was needed to get guds.


I feel Jake was almost certainly a aqua pick for the marketing cause I don’t see how any rationale person had him over ehlers/nylander without taking marketing into consideration

 

[Hit the post]

Vancouver Canucks: Scouts ripped for missing out on David Pastrnak

Look what Charlie did to Miss Pastrnak!

(the episode that inspired Bovinder!)

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Although I highly trust PJ, it seems weird that it would have been reported before that the scouts missed Pastrnak, Benning's former team (which he left a month or so prior) ended up taking Pastrnak, but now the scouts wanted Pastrnak ,and Benning took the guy he wanted but then traded a year and a half later? And why is this only being reported now - you'd think someone like Botch would've dug this up years ago if it was actually true.

I've long believed that Benning moved Virtanen up the list, and for the most part just sat back for the rest of the draft. I'm pretty sure McCann would've been a Dave Gagner recommendation - he wasn't the head scout, but had quite a bit of clout in the organization under Gillis, along with Crawford. And we know that Benning completely deferred the Tryamkin pick to the scouts. Unless he specifically wanted to have insight on just the first rounders? But that feels a) a little too convenient and b) irrelevant, because McCann was actually a pretty good pick.

So even if this is true, it is genuinely hindsight. This isn't a Tkachuk over Juolevi situation. Nothing about Pastrnak at the time indicated he'd be a superstar. This was a 24th overall pick. Who knows, maybe Bleackley would have been a superstar if he was in the Bruins organization and gifted a spot next to Marchand and Bergeron.

It's a funny dunk on the "Benning is a scouting GOD" crowd that thinks that he scoured through some backwater Swedish towns to extract Elias Pettersson out of nowhere... but for the purposes of reasonable discussion, I don't think it matters.

Who claimed Benning 'discovered ' Elias Pettersson..?...Sounds like another narrative you've just manufactured.

 

[vancityluongo]

Who claimed Benning 'discovered ' Elias Pettersson..?...Sounds like another narrative you've just manufactured.

lmao classic

prove that no one has said that